When you know it's coming

ChibiUsagi · Jun 24, 2018

Really though.

I find this to be the hardest part. I had some editors promise to get back to me by July 1st, so I know that the NOs are about to come pouring in.

Of course, I am hoping for a yes from at least one but I know better than to hold my breath. It sucks to get so close and then be told no. It sucks to fail the lovely people who believe in me (well, person).

And worse, it sucks to feed that little voice in my head that tells me I am no good.

As writers, we take the road less traveled. We have fallen in love with a mercurial mistress indeed.

How do you deal with going about your daily life, all the while knowing that the shoe is about to drop?

Helix · Jun 24, 2018

ChibiUsagi said:
Really though.

I find this to be the hardest part. I had some editors promise to get back to me by July 1st, so I know that the NOs are about to come pouring in.

Of course, I am hoping for a yes from at least one but I know better than to hold my breath. It sucks to get so close and then be told no. It sucks to fail the lovely people who believe in me (well, person).

And worse, it sucks to feed that little voice in my head that tells me I am no good.

As writers, we take the road less traveled. We have fallen in love with a mercurial mistress indeed.

How do you deal with going about your daily life, all the while knowing that the shoe is about to drop?

Not sure about the road less travelled and the mercurial mistress. It's writing. You deal with it by getting on with the Next Thing.

lizmonster · Jun 24, 2018

ChibiUsagi said:
How do you deal with going about your daily life, all the while knowing that the shoe is about to drop?

Everybody handles it differently. Personally, recognizing when I no longer have power over the eventual outcome helps a lot, at least in terms of getting through the day. You've done what you can: had your agent send your best work to these editors. What they say now is out of your control.

Also, consider hope.

Assuming the worst isn't going to change anything either, and it'll just make the passing time that much more miserable.

Handling actual rejection is a different process entirely, and I'm hardly the poster child for doing it well. I can only say that - should you have to deal with it - your reaction will likely be different than you expect.

ChibiUsagi · Jun 24, 2018

Helix said:
Not sure about the road less travelled and the mercurial mistress. It's writing. You deal with it by getting on with the Next Thing.

How nice for you.

lizmonster said:
Everybody handles it differently. Personally, recognizing when I no longer have power over the eventual outcome helps a lot, at least in terms of getting through the day. You've done what you can: had your agent send your best work to these editors. What they say now is out of your control.

Also, consider hope. Assuming the worst isn't going to change anything either, and it'll just make the passing time that much more miserable.

Handling actual rejection is a different process entirely, and I'm hardly the poster child for doing it well. I can only say that - should you have to deal with it - your reaction will likely be different than you expect.

Hah, I'm a really bad poster child myself as I think you already know but I do ok when it's sort of random and spread out. It's when I know that it's coming like...in the next few days but not exactly when that I become a bucket of bolts.

I've been waiting for ages, which of course is normal, so part of me is relieved to know either way...part of me lol.

Helix · Jun 24, 2018

ChibiUsagi said:
How nice for you.

*nods*

It's easy to fetishise the idea of the noble creator inspired by some capricious muse, but I reckon that way lies writer's block and stultifying 'perfectionism'. But each to her own.

ChibiUsagi · Jun 24, 2018

I am perhaps fortunate to have never experienced writer’s block. But in any case I was just poking a bit of fun.

Fuchsia Groan · Jun 25, 2018

I haven’t figured this out myself, so I can only commiserate. Last year I waited three months for news that turned out to be bad, and then another month for more not-great news. After that, it can be hard to summon much hope, especially if you’re already a pessimist (I am) and unpersuaded by positive thinking.

Mainly, I distract myself. I write new books. I make plans for the steps I’ll take if the worst-case scenario happens. This makes me feel less trapped by the waiting. It also helps me to know I’m not the only one, and any awful outcome I can imagine has already been experienced by other writers.

Oh, and stay away from any social media where people announce their happy book news, if you can. Return when you have happy news of your own, or to congratulate your friends, but hanging out reading that stuff can put you in a bad head-space when you’re waiting on tenterhooks.

Toothpaste · Jun 25, 2018

Like I said in my other post to you, you start to handle it by defining yourself by other things, not just your writing. It also helps if you're writing something new while all this is going on.

Also, like I also said in my previous post, this business is fickle. So while waiting until July 1st knowing with a sense of dread that news is coming sucks, you know what sucks worst? When it's July 5th and you still haven't heard anything.

Prepare yourself that deadlines don't always have meaning in this industry.

Lastly I don't think you need to be quite so harsh with Helix. They were simply answering your question. For a lot of people taking the magic and mysticism out of the process, and realising this is a job like anything else, IS what helps them deal with things like this. And your line didn't really read like a joke. You have to understand that here at AW we do encounter all kinds of people, including those who genuinely believe and speak the way you wrote that sentence. There really was no sense that you were making fun. Especially since there were other parts of your post written in a similar tone with a similar style of language.

ChibiUsagi · Jun 25, 2018

Toothpaste said:
Like I said in my other post to you, you start to handle it by defining yourself by other things, not just your writing. It also helps if you're writing something new while all this is going on.

Also, like I also said in my previous post, this business is fickle. So while waiting until July 1st knowing with a sense of dread that news is coming sucks, you know what sucks worst? When it's July 5th and you still haven't heard anything. Prepare yourself that deadlines don't always have meaning in this industry.

Lastly I don't think you need to be quite so harsh with Helix. They were simply answering your question. For a lot of people taking the magic and mysticism out of the process, and realising this is a job like anything else, IS what helps them deal with things like this. And your line didn't really read like a joke. You have to understand that here at AW we do encounter all kinds of people, including those who genuinely believe and speak the way you wrote that sentence. There really was no sense that you were making fun. Especially since there were other parts of your post written in a similar tone with a similar style of language.

Hi lovely, good to see your wise words again.

Also, it really wasn't mean to come off as harsh, so @Helix I am sorry if it came off that way. I was incredibly tired when responding and couldn't think of much to say.

If you could hear my tone it would probably make a difference. I have a very dry, British sense of humor but am not prone to bitchiness.

ChibiUsagi · Jun 25, 2018

Fuchsia Groan said:
I haven’t figured this out myself, so I can only commiserate. Last year I waited three months for news that turned out to be bad, and then another month for more not-great news. After that, it can be hard to summon much hope, especially if you’re already a pessimist (I am) and unpersuaded by positive thinking.

Mainly, I distract myself. I write new books. I make plans for the steps I’ll take if the worst-case scenario happens. This makes me feel less trapped by the waiting. It also helps me to know I’m not the only one, and any awful outcome I can imagine has already been experienced by other writers.

Oh, and stay away from any social media where people announce their happy book news, if you can. Return when you have happy news of your own, or to congratulate your friends, but hanging out reading that stuff can put you in a bad head-space when you’re waiting on tenterhooks.

This is bloody brilliant advice, thank you. You are SO right about the social media. I saw one of the girls I used to work with just got a fabulous new job I have been rejected from about 4 times and I was like...I don't wish you ill, but I also don't want to see this shit right now.

RaggyCat · Jun 25, 2018

Another vote to distract yourself by writing something new - disappointment is much easier to deal with if you have a new project on the go, especially if you're fortunate enough to have got to the "falling in love" stage with it. The most disappointing feedback I've had in my career came at a point where I'd just emotionally invested in my next book and couldn't get enough of it, which was very lucky as otherwise I think the disappointment would have been a huge knock and I might have dealt with it poorly. Instead, I shrugged, shelved the old project, and got on finishing the new one.

Agree with Fuschia that social media doesn't help. It's full of people sharing good news and (usually) no one goes there to share disappointment and rejection. I find being nice to people who've succeeded when I've failed on sites like Twitter challenging when I'm feeling down so if I have nothing good to say, I say nothing at all and stay away from Twitter until I have something good to say. Twitter is particularly bad IMO, I have to say, possibly because of the character limit.

I realise I'm saying nothing new here, just agreeing with others... but yeah. Oh, also, you may wish to avoid reading published books in your genre for a while, too. I read a lot of YA (my category) and sometimes what I read either discourages me (because I think it's so good) or infuriates me (because I think it's not good). When that happens I just read something completely different (like Adult Historical) until the feeling passes.

AW Admin · Jun 25, 2018

ChibiUsagi said:
If you could hear my tone it would probably make a difference. I have a very dry, British sense of humor but am not prone to bitchiness.

We can't hear your tone. You're a writer; part of that is using words to convey tone.

While I'm sympathetic to the sufferings of submission, as a former agency assistant and a current editorial assistant, you should keep your anxiety in mind dealing with other writers.

Submission anxiety is one of the Varieties of insanity [sic] know to affect writers.

FJaneH · Jun 25, 2018

I'm going to expand of the advice others have given you, and say don't just write something new, but LOVE something new. Get passionate about a new writing project. Because the fact is, in this fickle business, your book on sub might not sell. But if you have something else that you are just as invested in waiting in the wings, then you will be better able to accept that. And when that next book is ready you're way ahead of the game because you already have an agent who loves your work. Many agented authors do not sell the first book they go on sub with.

I had so many rejections from top editors on my book. But I was working on another project that at the time, and I loved it even more than the book on sub. When we were down to the last couple of editors my agent and I discussed whether to go for smaller presses, direct to digital, or hold off for a print deal for the new book. And it was easy for me to agree to shelve the first book and sub the next book, since I loved it so much. (But the first book did sell literally a week before our deadline.)

Manage your expectations by remembering the goal is to be a published writer, not to sell that particular book. Good luck!

ChibiUsagi · Jun 25, 2018

AW Admin said:
We can't hear your tone. You're a writer; part of that is using words to convey tone.

While I'm sympathetic to the sufferings of submission, as a former agency assistant and a current editorial assistant, you should keep your anxiety in mind dealing with other writers.

Submission anxiety is one of the Varieties of insanity [sic] know to affect writers.

You are correct, so I apologize if anyone thought I was trying to be mean.

ChibiUsagi · Jun 25, 2018

RaggyCat said:
Another vote to distract yourself by writing something new - disappointment is much easier to deal with if you have a new project on the go, especially if you're fortunate enough to have got to the "falling in love" stage with it. The most disappointing feedback I've had in my career came at a point where I'd just emotionally invested in my next book and couldn't get enough of it, which was very lucky as otherwise I think the disappointment would have been a huge knock and I might have dealt with it poorly. Instead, I shrugged, shelved the old project, and got on finishing the new one.

Agree with Fuschia that social media doesn't help. It's full of people sharing good news and (usually) no one goes there to share disappointment and rejection. I find being nice to people who've succeeded when I've failed on sites like Twitter challenging when I'm feeling down so if I have nothing good to say, I say nothing at all and stay away from Twitter until I have something good to say. Twitter is particularly bad IMO, I have to say, possibly because of the character limit.

I realise I'm saying nothing new here, just agreeing with others... but yeah. Oh, also, you may wish to avoid reading published books in your genre for a while, too. I read a lot of YA (my category) and sometimes what I read either discourages me (because I think it's so good) or infuriates me (because I think it's not good). When that happens I just read something completely different (like Adult Historical) until the feeling passes.

I hate social media for this reason, even outside of publishing. Everyone is in a happy relationship, and traveling and eating fancy food and hanging out with friends and I'm at home, chewing on my hair, waiting for emails, trying to write my new book but stopping every two pages because it's crap, I'm crap, everything is crap so what's the point? And I DO love this new book and have ideas for several more but my confidence is badly shaken so it's tough to keep writing sometimes.

Then I'm like, I want a drink, because Hemingway drank. And then I remember that I don't drink because developmentally I am about 16 as of my last IQ/EQ test. Boo. The ability to mentally go places that my emotions can't keep up with has long been an issue for me, and the stress of trying to have a real writing career is really exasperating that.

FJaneH said:
I'm going to expand of the advice others have given you, and say don't just write something new, but LOVE something new. Get passionate about a new writing project. Because the fact is, in this fickle business, your book on sub might not sell. But if you have something else that you are just as invested in waiting in the wings, then you will be better able to accept that. And when that next book is ready you're way ahead of the game because you already have an agent who loves your work. Many agented authors do not sell the first book they go on sub with.

I had so many rejections from top editors on my book. But I was working on another project that at the time, and I loved it even more than the book on sub. When we were down to the last couple of editors my agent and I discussed whether to go for smaller presses, direct to digital, or hold off for a print deal for the new book. And it was easy for me to agree to shelve the first book and sub the next book, since I loved it so much. (But the first book did sell literally a week before our deadline.)

Manage your expectations by remembering the goal is to be a published writer, not to sell that particular book. Good luck!

This is very true and all great advice. I am really invested in this particular story though...it's the closest thing to an "insert self here" that I have ever written or probably ever will because it's way too hard to be objective.

Toothpaste · Jun 25, 2018

Well as a Canadian we do appreciate our dry British humour so I'm all for it. But yeah, AW Admin is spot on, tone is so tough on here and we do have to try to be as vigilant as possible and use our strength with words as our main tool (and this comes from someone who is often asked here why I'm so offended or told not to get angry when I think I'm just being direct, so I get it, believe you me

)

And yes social media IS THE WORST. I was watching on twitter all the stuff happening at ALA this weekend and the Newberry/Caldecott award ceremony and I was so envious of everyone getting to hang out together there. I had to say, "Toothpaste, back away slowly from the social media." Also remember: Social media is comparing our regular unvarnished lives with everyone else's highlight reel. It ain't the truth, it's just a pretty story we're all telling to each other.

Anyway, keep on keeping on, know you aren't alone in this, and seriously do try to find other things to occupy your time. It isn't easy, you won't always succeed, but it is worth the effort.

lizmonster · Jun 25, 2018

RaggyCat said:
I realise I'm saying nothing new here, just agreeing with others... but yeah. Oh, also, you may wish to avoid reading published books in your genre for a while, too. I read a lot of YA (my category) and sometimes what I read either discourages me (because I think it's so good) or infuriates me (because I think it's not good). When that happens I just read something completely different (like Adult Historical) until the feeling passes.

Vouch.

Mystery and romance get me through a LOT of bad days.

ChibiUsagi · Jun 25, 2018

lizmonster said:
Vouch.

Mystery and romance get me through a LOT of bad days.

It's hard (for me at least) to find Romance that doesn't make me want to pull my hair out. My boss has said for years that seems to be an audience that will tolerate damn near "any old crap" for da kisses with da sexy man and da sexors.

(not my words, she's kind of snarky)

Of course, there must be good Romance. There is crap in every genre. I will have to look harder.

I have never read mystery either. I tend to read very serious, rather dark books--maybe I'd be happier if I didn't.

lizmonster · Jun 25, 2018

ChibiUsagi said:
This is very true and all great advice. I am really invested in this particular story though...it's the closest thing to an "insert self here" that I have ever written or probably ever will because it's way too hard to be objective.

I've got one of those characters in my books. Half the people who read my first book hated him. My former agent was quite vocal in her dislike.

But he's awesome, and they are wrong and I am right, so there. :wag:

But seriously - no, it's no fun if you get critiqued on a character who's got that much of you in them. But that's another way focusing on the new work can help. The further away you get from a book you've written, the easier it is to remember that you've created characters who are separate from you, no matter how like you they are.

And emotional buffers are good, especially for release day and all the days after.

ChibiUsagi said:
Of course, there must be good Romance. There is crap in every genre. I will have to look harder.

I have never read mystery either. I tend to read very serious, rather dark books--maybe I'd be happier if I didn't.

There's a ton of good romance out there. Some of my favorites are mainstream authors, others not so much, but it's definitely the go-to genre for solid character work and a guaranteed happy ending. (Because damn, some days I really need that.)

My cousin wrote romance while I was growing up, so I learned young that the disparagement the genre gets is completely unfounded (and frankly based in sexism, but that's a different thread).

If you want some dark, serious mystery, too, I've got some recs. I don't go as dark as some (I don't like the "bad guy wins" genre), but there's some pretty bleak, rough stuff out there. (Also, I tend to think all books are mysteries one way or another.

)

AW Admin · Jun 25, 2018

lizmonster said:
I've got one of those characters in my books. Half the people who read my first book hated him.

Meh. Being "likeable" isn't everything. While Austen was writing Emma she wrote a letter in which she said:

I am going to take a heroine whom no one but myself will much like.

She introduces that character in the first sentence of Emma:

Emma Woodhouse, handsome, clever, and rich.

It's one of the most read books, still, and routinely captures the attention of new readers.

(I don't like Emma the character, but the book is very much worth reading).

lizmonster · Jun 25, 2018

AW Admin said:
(I don't like Emma the character, but the book is very much worth reading).

I haven't read Emma in years, but I do remember I liked her better than Fanny Price in Mansfield Park, who I suspect I was meant to like.

The author can't always call it, I suppose.

ChibiUsagi · Jun 25, 2018

lizmonster said:
I haven't read Emma in years, but I do remember I liked her better than Fanny Price in Mansfield Park, who I suspect I was meant to like.

The author can't always call it, I suppose.

My character's older brother is a snarky jerk but I adore him, so does she, and I'm working on bridging that divide.

Kind does not mean good.
Really I want to get this across. Actions >words
:ROFL:

Isobel · Jun 25, 2018

lizmonster said:
I haven't read Emma in years, but I do remember I liked her better than Fanny Price in Mansfield Park, who I suspect I was meant to like.

God, yes, this. Emma is not my favorite Jane Austen heroine, but she is loads better than Fanny Price, who is almost intolerable.

I'm a huge fan of romance, both as a genre and as a subplot. (Any desire for dark fiction that I had vanished November 2016. It's now too close to what I'm already doing.)

Fuchsia Groan · Jun 25, 2018

Ugh, I hate Fanny Price, too! What a virtuous wet blanket.

With distraction reading, I think you just need to figure out what works for you. When I’m anxious, I crave dark, creepy mystery and horror. It seems to vibrate at the same frequency as my free-floating dread, which calms it. I went to see Hereditary (a messed-up horror movie) and I was like most people after a spa day. No, definitely not recommended for everyone.

Helix · Jun 25, 2018

I'm going to offer some more advice. The first part is infinitely more useful than the second.

Part the First

Toothpaste's post in Conquering Challenges -- print it out and Sellotape a copy to the wall above your desk, Sellotape one to your desk, and Sellotape a third to your computer monitor so you have to lift it out of the way before you can start work. It's that good. It's that important.

Part the Second

Random thoughts:

1. What does success mean to you? Try defining it -- but only in terms of what you can control. To be published doesn't count, because it's not in your control.

2. Always move forward. I'd stick a shark analogy here, but a lot of sharks don't have to move forward to survive, because buccal pumping is a thing. But, generally, be a whaler shark, not a wobbegong. Not that there's anything wrong with wobbegongs. And whalers are fearsome predators. You know what, I'm abandoning this right now.

When you know it's coming

ChibiUsagi

Helix

socially distancing

lizmonster

Possibly A Mermaid Queen

ChibiUsagi

Helix

socially distancing

ChibiUsagi

Fuchsia Groan

Becoming a laptop-human hybrid

Toothpaste

THE RECKLESS RESCUE is out now!

ChibiUsagi

ChibiUsagi

RaggyCat

AW Admin

FJaneH

ChibiUsagi

ChibiUsagi

Toothpaste

THE RECKLESS RESCUE is out now!

lizmonster

Possibly A Mermaid Queen

ChibiUsagi

lizmonster

Possibly A Mermaid Queen

AW Admin

lizmonster

Possibly A Mermaid Queen

ChibiUsagi

Isobel

Fuchsia Groan

Becoming a laptop-human hybrid

Helix

socially distancing