Section breaks and dividers

inksplatter · Jun 23, 2018

Hello,

What's your opinion on section breaks?

These interrupt the flow but are sometimes necessary to the story, especially if I don't want to use an unnecessary transition. I try to avoid the jarring feeling by ending sections with a note of finality.

How do you deal with these? Is it possible to have too many? Looking for general input regarding this.

Thank you.

Edit: Talking about scene breaks that are denoted by #

Hbooks · Jun 23, 2018

When reading, I totally appreciate section breaks over unclear transitions, whether it's a timeline jump or a pov switch or a setting change.

As for, can you put breaks too often? Well sure. I've also seen books where an author will have a chapter with like one sentence in it, or a single word for effect. So it can work. Is that a technique that's harder to pull off? Yes.

My two cents.

Woollybear · Jun 23, 2018

Hi Inksplatter,

In my tenth draft (last december, which was submitted to AR), I took the idea of 'scene' very literally (grouping of people in a place for a continuous time) and this gave me 93 scenes which I indicated with a #.

I've become less literal and decided that ending one day and immediately skipping ahead to the next day does not constitute a scene break. Etc. I've 'closed' some scenes together with 'Some time later, blah blah blah.'

I'm closer to 43 scene breaks now. Most of my chapters (34 chapters) have two scenes. Some have 1 and some have three. 90,000 words.

Thinking of cutting a few more scenes.

Harlequin · Jun 23, 2018

I typically only use them for pov transitions within a chapter (which I dont have for current MS) but there's no right or wrong.

sometimes the best transition is the one you don't see. Sometimes!

RobertlewisIR · Jun 23, 2018

Nothing wrong with them. Just ask yourself why you're using a section break instead of a chapter break. If it makes more sense as a new section rather than a new chapter, go for it. On the other hand, don't be afraid of writing short chapters, either, if it makes more sense to do it that way.

Cindyt · Jun 23, 2018

I break between scene transitions and POVs.

inksplatter · Jun 23, 2018

Hbooks said:
When reading, I totally appreciate section breaks over unclear transitions, whether it's a timeline jump or a pov switch or a setting change.

As for, can you put breaks too often? Well sure. I've also seen books where an author will have a chapter with like one sentence in it, or a single word for effect. So it can work. Is that a technique that's harder to pull off? Yes.

My two cents.

I've seen that too. Stephanie Meyer did the whole 'November,' 'December', 'January' to cover Bella's depression in New Moon.

Patty said:
Hi Inksplatter,

In my tenth draft (last december, which was submitted to AR), I took the idea of 'scene' very literally (grouping of people in a place for a continuous time) and this gave me 93 scenes which I indicated with a #.

I've become less literal and decided that ending one day and immediately skipping ahead to the next day does not constitute a scene break. Etc. I've 'closed' some scenes together with 'Some time later, blah blah blah.'

I'm closer to 43 scene breaks now. Most of my chapters (34 chapters) have two scenes. Some have 1 and some have three. 90,000 words.

Thinking of cutting a few more scenes.

Ah, Patty, you're starting to get me. Thank you for providing the metrics. I wanted to ask that but decided not to, since everyone's MS is different.

Harlequin said:
I typically only use them for pov transitions within a chapter (which I dont have for current MS) but there's no right or wrong.

sometimes the best transition is the one you don't see. Sometimes!

Cindyt said:
I break between scene transitions and POVs.

I only have one POV, so scene transitions are what I've gone for as well.

RobertlewisIR said:
Nothing wrong with them. Just ask yourself why you're using a section break instead of a chapter break. If it makes more sense as a new section rather than a new chapter, go for it. On the other hand, don't be afraid of writing short chapters, either, if it makes more sense to do it that way.

Some of my chapters are on the shorter side already, but I try not to end a chapter unless that 'scene' ends or something 'big' happens.

These are all very insightful. Thank you!

Vhb_Rocketman · Jun 23, 2018

I had a tough time deciding if I wanted scene breaks within a chapter. In the end I decided to go for the transitions. I decided to treat it as “your seeing the world through that particular POV". Other then sleeping, our lives aren't broken up by scene breaks. So I wanted to mimic that. If I want to jump time I do it by switching POVs.

In the end it seems to work for my MS, and I have enough POVs to choose from. But that leaves me trying to find clever ways to transition scenes. That turned out to be harder than I thought when I started out. That being said I feel it makes it more lifelike and less talking heads. As strange as it sounds it forced me to have my characters actually doing something.

Took some getting used to but I think I made it work. Granted if I were to start another project I might choose differently.

BethS · Jun 23, 2018

inksplatter said:
Hello,

What's your opinion on section breaks?

These interrupt the flow but are sometimes necessary to the story, especially if I don't want to use an unnecessary transition. I try to avoid the jarring feeling by ending sections with a note of finality.

How do you deal with these? Is it possible to have too many? Looking for general input regarding this.

What do you mean by "section breaks"? Are you referring to scene breaks? Or actual sections of the books (Part I, Part II, etc.)?

Scene breaks are necessary dividers between units of action. I suppose if you have lots and lots of very short scenes, it could certainly create a choppy feel and interfere with reader immersion. Not sure if that's what you're talking about, though.

screenscope · Jun 23, 2018

I use them sometimes when a scene needs one, such as a character travelling from one place to another. If there's no need to describe the journey, I'll use a break to maintain the pace.

It's just another handy writing tool.

Scythian · Jun 24, 2018

I think every scene needs a function and a point. The function is almost always "a link from A to B", but the point is something you can summarize in a sentence or two. "In this scene Gadfred starts doubting the voices in his head" for example, or "in this scene Mortiana reads the letter".
At the point in which there's no longer any...point..in the scene, IMO it's safe to end it and jump to next scene, without instead describing how he then pulled on his pants, tied his shoes, threw on a jacket, looked at himself in the mirror, looked for his keys, found them, made sure his phone was in the correct pocket, and let out a fart.
Unless style and amospherics are as important as plot in one's book, in which case it's the looking for the keys scene which may have everyone delighted.

Roxxsmom · Jun 24, 2018

inksplatter said:
Hello,

What's your opinion on section breaks?

These interrupt the flow but are sometimes necessary to the story, especially if I don't want to use an unnecessary transition. I try to avoid the jarring feeling by ending sections with a note of finality.

How do you deal with these? Is it possible to have too many? Looking for general input regarding this.

Thank you.

What do you mean by section break? If you're referring to MS word's feature, the only place I use one in a novel is between the title page and the rest of the story. I imagine some authors may also use them between prologues or other introductory material and the story proper, but I'd leave that to editing. Section breaks are usually used when there is a need to start page numbers over or when one needs different pagination for different sections of a paper or manuscript.

If by section break you mean a scene break within a chapter (denoted within a manuscript by a # centered in the page and in a published work by a blank line or some fancier symbol), most writers make use of those when there's a change or location/purpose that isn't "shown" gradually within the narrative or when there is a change of viewpoint character within a chapter. There can be anywhere from one to several scenes per chapter as needed. I don't think there's a limit, but I'd suggest not tossing them in more than needed for clarity and flow. As Beth said, too many scenes that are too short can make a narrative feel choppy or discontinuous, and that can frustrate readers who may take time to connect with a character viewpoint or story segment. There is no need to have all scenes, or chapters, be a uniform length, though, nor does there need to be a uniform number of scene breaks per chapter.

As others have noted, each segment of a story--whether we are talking chapters or scenes within chapters--should advance it in some way and should have a beginning that transitions in some way from previous scenes, a middle, and an ending that establishes where the story (or character thread if scene breaks are used to divide narrative viewpoints) is going next.

inksplatter · Jun 24, 2018

BethS said:
What do you mean by "section breaks"? Are you referring to scene breaks? Or actual sections of the books (Part I, Part II, etc.)?

Scene breaks are necessary dividers between units of action. I suppose if you have lots and lots of very short scenes, it could certainly create a choppy feel and interfere with reader immersion. Not sure if that's what you're talking about, though.

Roxxsmom said:
What do you mean by section break? If you're referring to MS word's feature, the only place I use one in a novel is between the title page and the rest of the story. I imagine some authors may also use them between prologues or other introductory material and the story proper, but I'd leave that to editing. Section breaks are usually used when there is a need to start page numbers over or when one needs different pagination for different sections of a paper or manuscript.

If by section break you mean a scene break within a chapter (denoted within a manuscript by a # centered in the page and in a published work by a blank line or some fancier symbol), most writers make use of those when there's a change or location/purpose that isn't "shown" gradually within the narrative or when there is a change of viewpoint character within a chapter. There can be anywhere from one to several scenes per chapter as needed. I don't think there's a limit, but I'd suggest not tossing them in more than needed for clarity and flow. As Beth said, too many scenes that are too short can make a narrative feel choppy or discontinuous, and that can frustrate readers who may take time to connect with a character viewpoint or story segment. There is no need to have all scenes, or chapters, be a uniform length, though, nor does there need to be a uniform number of scene breaks per chapter.

As others have noted, each segment of a story--whether we are talking chapters or scenes within chapters--should advance it in some way and should have a beginning that transitions in some way from previous scenes, a middle, and an ending that establishes where the story (or character thread if scene breaks are used to divide narrative viewpoints) is going next.

I did mean scene breaks, denoted by #.

I'm trying to avoid the discontinuity and choppy feeling that comes with a scene break but also trying to avoid an unnecessary description between the two (like what Scythian said).

Just general input on how writers strike a balance between choppy, section break and let me add a few sentences here for a transition.

Elle. · Jun 24, 2018

Personally, I much prefer a scene break than necessary transition scenes or descriptions. Scene breaks are only choppy if you make them. I'm currently reading Sophie Mackintosh's The Water Cure that has lots of scene breaks, moving from one relevant time of day to another, I don't personally find it jarring at all and she doesn't really use sentences for transition either. It works for her story.

Woollybear · Jun 24, 2018

Inksplatter,

One thing that was very useful, for me, in having all 93 scenes identified (last December) touches on what Scythian, Roxxsmom, Beth, and probably a few others have mentioned: finding the purpose of each scene. I chose the scene-sequel method to look at my story's structure. There are other methods.

Scene: Goal, conflict, disaster
Sequel (a type of scene): Reaction, dilemma, decision

These often alternate in a 'typical story' and the scenes have higher energy (~action) than the sequels (~thinking). After identifying and color coding scenes vs sequels, I found that I could shorten many sequels. their purpose is to get to the next decision, and there was little point in people dithering endlessly to get there. But I wouldn't have seen it, personally, without going through my story methodically.

My story is low key, so anything I can do to keep it moving is good. I'm glad I had identified all 93 scenes because it gave me chunks that I could analyze. But, it did feel choppy, and finding various ways to reduce that number was good, too, and I'm glad to not have endless breaks in the story now.

BethS · Jun 24, 2018

inksplatter said:
I did mean scene breaks, denoted by #.

I'm trying to avoid the discontinuity and choppy feeling that comes with a scene break but also trying to avoid an unnecessary description between the two (like what Scythian said).

There's no need for a scene break to be disruptive to the reader, or to be choppy or give a sense of discontinuity. A scene should end at a natural place, when the scene has accomplished what it needs to accomplish.

However, if you want an example of a writer who doesn't use scene breaks, only chapter breaks, check out George RR Martin's Game of Thrones books. If I'm remembering correctly, each chapter is composed of one long scene, even though there might be places where another writer would insert a scene break. Martin just uses transitions to connect changes in time or location.

DanielSTJ · Jun 24, 2018

I've been using them as dividers from where one scene ends and another starts. However, I generally do not write short scenes.

But, on viewing this topic, I'll be careful not to overuse them. I wouldn't want it to be too jarring to readers.

Good food for thought.

greendragon · Jun 25, 2018

I write in scenes, rather than chapters. I only go back and impose chapters on my manuscript because my publisher insists there should be chapters. In my latest MS of 98,000 words, there are 49 scene breaks and 10 chapter breaks, for a total of 59. Some are quite short, but most are around 1500 words average. This is an odd case, though, as the POV changes from modern times to medieval times as a timeslip novel.

Sarahrizz · Jun 25, 2018

I avoid doing the whole # <enter> on my word processor, mostly because I am unfamiliar with the function and the one time I did I couldn't figure out how to get it off. I had to cut & paste to a new doc. to get it off. I change my mind too much with revisions to ever commit to it. At times when there is a transition or time passing within a chapter I'll skip a line, but its rare, because it's usually the best time to go to another chapter.

divine-intestine · Jun 26, 2018

They're essential tools in a writer's toolbox. Not sure why anyone needs to have an opinion on them.

lejay · Jun 26, 2018

greendragon said:
I write in scenes, rather than chapters. I only go back and impose chapters on my manuscript because my publisher insists there should be chapters..

It's funny but I just noticed recently that in some of Terry Pratchett's books he didn't use any chapters at all--only scene breaks. I read the whole book and never even noticed, until I looked at it again. I guess his publisher let him get away with it.

Section breaks and dividers

inksplatter

Hbooks

Woollybear

Harlequin

Eat books, not brains!

RobertlewisIR

Cindyt

Gettin wiggy wit it

inksplatter

Vhb_Rocketman

BethS

screenscope

Scythian

Roxxsmom

Beastly Fido

inksplatter

Elle.

Woollybear

BethS

DanielSTJ

The Wandering Bard

greendragon

Sarahrizz

divine-intestine

Hardened drinker

lejay