Help with LITTLE kids' book. Like Little Golden Books style.

Segija · Jun 20, 2018

Hey, everyone!

I generally write MG or YA fantasy, but I want to publish this tiny little story that my Grandma used to use to help me write my numbers when I was a kid (I always wrote half of them backwards) as a picture book.

So it would literally be like 10 pages long - one for each number (and zero). I could maaaaybe add in a page in the front about a kid having problems with his numbers and Grandma coming to help. We're talking maybe even a board book.

I know zippo-zilcho about this level of publishing. A few questions, then:

1) I hear agents/editors don't like it when authors try to give illustration notes (the illustrator is an equal collaborator and gets to come up with whatever they come up with, is the way I understand it) but due to the nature of this story (it explains why the numbers look and face the way they do) at least an idea of what the numbers look like seems in order. I'm a freelance artist, so my work won't be total garbage (although I'm not good enough an illustrator, I don't think, to design the whole thing myself).

2) Oh, and one more thing - I was thinking of publishing it in my Grandma's name (she passed years ago). Mostly to do her honor - hey, she wrote the story! - and also so people don't get to thinking that writing these kinds of books are my thing. What do you think of that?

3) Any resources you can point me to in educating myself on how to submit/query for something like this, or any advice on the topic? It seems like such a different world from my other writing!

Thank you for all your thoughts and assistance!
S

cornflake · Jun 20, 2018

Segija said:
Hey, everyone!

Hi, welcome to AW.

I generally write MG or YA fantasy, but I want to publish this tiny little story that my Grandma used to use to help me write my numbers when I was a kid (I always wrote half of them backwards) as a picture book.

So it would literally be like 10 pages long - one for each number (and zero). I could maaaaybe add in a page in the front about a kid having problems with his numbers and Grandma coming to help. We're talking maybe even a board book.

I don't know the conventions for board books -- if anyone here does (many people might, just saying of people I know I'd bet) Debbie V. probably does.

A picture book, however, is 32 pages and usually around 500-800 words.

I know zippo-zilcho about this level of publishing. A few questions, then:

1) I hear agents/editors don't like it when authors try to give illustration notes (the illustrator is an equal collaborator and gets to come up with whatever they come up with, is the way I understand it) but due to the nature of this story (it explains why the numbers look and face the way they do) at least an idea of what the numbers look like seems in order. I'm a freelance artist, so my work won't be total garbage (although I'm not good enough an illustrator, I don't think, to design the whole thing myself).

If the explanations (or things that make it clear what they should look like) for the looks are within the text itself, the illustrator will work with that. They're not just like 'hey, what if the numbers were all goth?!' and regardless, it's all a discussion with a publishing house.

2) Oh, and one more thing - I was thinking of publishing it in my Grandma's name (she passed years ago). Mostly to do her honor - hey, she wrote the story! - and also so people don't get to thinking that writing these kinds of books are my thing. What do you think of that?

That's very nice, except for the 'so people don't...' part which seems kind of insulting to people for whom this is their thing.

3) Any resources you can point me to in educating myself on how to submit/query for something like this, or any advice on the topic? It seems like such a different world from my other writing!

Thank you for all your thoughts and assistance!
S

There are stickies in Query Letter Hell and I think in the SYW writing for kids section (password for both is vista) that have info. Queries for pbs have the entire text along with the query, etc.

Cyia · Jun 20, 2018

With this kind of thing, you're probably going to have to query publishers directly. Some accept non-agented submissions, just check their guidelines.

You write out the entire text in the letter you send. If they're interested, they'll handle the illustrations.

With 10 pages, if you assume a double-page spread for each number, you're up to 20 pages. It's best to get it up to 32, and fairly essential that it be a multiple of 8 (including front and back matter) as full sheets are folded into 8ths.

However, if you're serious about a board book, then you're beyond my depth.

Segija · Jun 21, 2018

@Cornflake:

"That's very nice, except for the 'so people don't...' part which seems kind of insulting to people for whom this is their thing."

It shouldn't be! I sure didn't mean it that way. What I meant was what I said earlier: I generally write YA and MG fantasy. I've heard one can get easily pigeonholed and I wouldn't want to be seen as a picture-book author - not because I think picture-book authors are talentless hacks who smell funny or whatever, LOL - but because I don't really have plans to pursue a long-term career creating picture-books for kids. See? I could say, "I'm judging an art contest this weekend, but I don't want people to get the idea that that's my thing - because I'm actually a dentist."

Anyway, I hate internet misunderstandings but that's about all I have to say about that. Thanks for the other advice!

sissybaby · Jun 21, 2018

Hi, Segija - I've read the comments so I know people covered the pages.

I AM a picture book writer - and an MG writer - and I can tell you that PBs are a lot more difficult sell. But if you are talented and tenacious then it can be done.

The one thing about your post that concerns me is the statement about publishing it in your grandmother's name because she wrote it. I would proceed with caution. Unless you were given the rights to the story, then it belongs to your grandmother, unless she willed it to someone else. I BELIEVE. If I'm wrong, someone please correct me. It would be a tragedy for the book to be printed and then a family war break out over ownership and proceeds. So if you go ahead with it and find someone wanting to take it on, you might want to have a family sit-down and work all of that out.

And perhaps I'm totally wrong about this, and someone with more smarts will set me straight. Good luck!

cornflake · Jun 21, 2018

That is not untrue -- missed that.

If this is a story your grandmother told people, and you write it up, and sell it successfully, that could end badly.

Segija · Jun 21, 2018

sissybaby said:
The one thing about your post that concerns me is the statement about publishing it in your grandmother's name because she wrote it. I would proceed with caution. Unless you were given the rights to the story, then it belongs to your grandmother, unless she willed it to someone else. I BELIEVE. If I'm wrong, someone please correct me. It would be a tragedy for the book to be printed and then a family war break out over ownership and proceeds.

Yeah, wow - I never thought about this. I'm not too worried: my Mom and Dad have both passed, and I'm the only one Grandma told this story to as a kid. There's no one to really fight with me over it (and I don't have any people like that in my immediate family, who'd want to start a family war over something like this). But all that being said, you've unnerved me enough that I might publish in my name and just dedicate the book to her.

I'm actually not sure if this is how 'rights' work on something like this, anyway. To be clear: this was a story she told me aloud to help me write my numbers. It was never written down, and I'm pretty sure she made it up on the spot (and it varied a little each time). Does oral tradition count? LOL. And she only ever told it to me. Huh. Dunno.

cornflake · Jun 21, 2018

Segija said:
Yeah, wow - I never thought about this. I'm not too worried: my Mom and Dad have both passed, and I'm the only one Grandma told this story to as a kid. There's no one to really fight with me over it (and I don't have any people like that in my immediate family, who'd want to start a family war over something like this). But all that being said, you've unnerved me enough that I might publish in my name and just dedicate the book to her.

I'm actually not sure if this is how 'rights' work on something like this, anyway. To be clear: this was a story she told me aloud to help me write my numbers. It was never written down, and I'm pretty sure she made it up on the spot (and it varied a little each time). Does oral tradition count? LOL. And she only ever told it to me. Huh. Dunno.

If you write this and end up placing it with a house, or have an agent, ask about the legality to make sure -- houses should have house lawyers.

Please do not take this as legal advice. You need legal advice about it from a lawyer who deals specifically with publishing rights and contracts and all. It *sounds* like that'd be fine, using a story your grandma told you and only you, but if there are other kids or beneficiaries of her estate who feel she 'wrote' it, well anyone can sue for anything. You know who's involved though.

Polenth · Jun 23, 2018

This seems like something you'd be more likely to sell when you have an agent for your MG/YA work and raise the subject of maybe writing a picture book. Even when agents do take picture book writers, they're generally looking for someone who has more than one book in them. So I wouldn't see this as an easy first project, but as a later project once you have some connections.

Board books are generally for very young readers (the sort of young where they're likely to try eating the pages, so the pages need to be sturdy). You will ideally want to expand the story so it fits picture book size, because this is going to be aimed a little older, when they're learning to write and have hopefully stopped chewing on books. You can learn a lot just by visiting the book store and seeing what the books are like (less so the library, as they'll have a lot of older stuff... you want to see what's out now).

I don't think you should pretend to be your grandmother. Write it as inspired by the story she told you.

You can write illustration notes. The thing they don't want is detailed illustration notes. If a child opens the door to a tiger, and the text simply says the child was surprised, you might add a note that the picture shows a tiger. What you wouldn't do is describe the scene in detail. It's unlikely that you'd have something so complicated that a drawing would be needed to explain it to the illustrator.

Help with LITTLE kids' book. Like Little Golden Books style.

Segija

cornflake

practical experience, FTW

Cyia

Rewriting My Destiny

Segija

sissybaby

cornflake

practical experience, FTW

Segija

cornflake

practical experience, FTW

Polenth

Mushroom