Can you have too many clauses in a sentence?

Gregg Bell

Super Member
Registered
Joined
Oct 2, 2015
Messages
920
Reaction score
164
Location
Itasca, Illinois (U.S.)
I've been called out for having too many "ands" (or other conjunctions) in a single sentence. I know sentences can be overlong and wordy, but is there a good rule of thumb for not overdoing it?

eg: He went to the store and saw that there were some things on sale he really would like to buy, but sure enough, this was the one time he hadn't brought this wallet and wouldn't be able to purchase them, unless he was able to buy something with his phone, but he'd never done anything like that before and was afraid to try, so he just went back home to get his wallet.
 

Cindyt

Gettin wiggy wit it
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Aug 14, 2016
Messages
4,826
Reaction score
1,954
Location
The Sticks
Website
growingupwolf.blogspot.com
John D. MacDonald was fond of using "and" in his Travis McGee books. I use it to complete a thought, but not so it's unreadable.
 

cornflake

practical experience, FTW
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Jul 11, 2012
Messages
16,171
Reaction score
3,734
That definitely breaks the one breath rule.

There's no rule rule, but my feeling about that example is just that it's overwritten. There's no need for the step-by-step of things people get.
 

blacbird

Super Member
Registered
Joined
Mar 21, 2005
Messages
36,987
Reaction score
6,158
Location
The right earlobe of North America
That is three sentences crammed into one.

He went to the store and saw that there were some things on sale he really would like to buy. But sure enough, this was the one time he hadn't brought his wallet and wouldn't be able to purchase them, unless he was able to buy something with his phone. He'd never done anything like that before and was afraid to try, so he just went back home to get his wallet.

You are suffering from the delusion that there are a limited number of punctuation periods in the universe, and are afraid you will run out. Every sentence should have a focus, a single core around which it is structured. Piling up clauses erases that core, and you just wind up with a heap of words that will daunt most readers.

Even with that separation into sentences of more palatable length, the example is wordy, My quick edit:

He went to the store and saw some things on sale he really would like to buy. But sure enough, this one time he hadn't brought his wallet and couldn't, unless he was able to buy with his phone. He'd never done anything like that before and was afraid to try, so he just went back home for his wallet.
 

BethS

Super Member
Registered
Joined
Dec 21, 2005
Messages
11,708
Reaction score
1,763
I've been called out for having too many "ands" (or other conjunctions) in a single sentence. I know sentences can be overlong and wordy, but is there a good rule of thumb for not overdoing it?

eg: He went to the store and saw that there were some things on sale he really would like to buy, but sure enough, this was the one time he hadn't brought this wallet and wouldn't be able to purchase them, unless he was able to buy something with his phone, but he'd never done anything like that before and was afraid to try, so he just went back home to get his wallet.

Yes, you can do that, but I think only now and then, carefully and for effect. You wouldn't want to make it habitual, because it will become exhausting and annoying to read.
 
Last edited:

stephenf

Super Member
Registered
Joined
Jul 29, 2008
Messages
1,199
Reaction score
335
I can't give advice about grammar, I struggle with it as well.
Writing fiction is more than putting words on paper and worrying about grammar. It is about creating something that connects and resonates with your reader's imagination. So, sentence length and how they are constructed can be used as a tool. Have a look at Gene Wolfe's The Fifth Head of Cerberus. He uses long sentences divide with commers , but it works in his stories.
 
Last edited:

Gregg Bell

Super Member
Registered
Joined
Oct 2, 2015
Messages
920
Reaction score
164
Location
Itasca, Illinois (U.S.)
Thanks a lot for the feedback! I think I like the idea of varying the length of sentences. Like Beth was saying. Don't overdo it. I do think the sentence is over-written. I just wrote it for example's sake.

There are some instructors (and they love to cite Faulkner) who love love love long sentences. Maybe not so much independent clauses joined with conjunctions but just endless add-ons.

The sky was a bright red after the storm, which had left trees down its wake, families without power, birds without nests, the community without hope, and yet, as the townspeople met to assess the damage, it was clear that they would rebuild, not giving into the despair that the storm, in its heartlessness, wanted to impose on the hapless town, which had never knows such ferocity before, nor did it have the resources to cope with such a catastrophe, its only hope being its resourcefulness of human spirit and the ability to come together to overcome.
 

blacbird

Super Member
Registered
Joined
Mar 21, 2005
Messages
36,987
Reaction score
6,158
Location
The right earlobe of North America
There are some instructors (and they love to cite Faulkner) who love love love long sentences. Maybe not so much independent clauses joined with conjunctions but just endless add-ons.

The sky was a bright red after the storm, which had left trees down its wake, families without power, birds without nests, the community without hope, and yet, as the townspeople met to assess the damage, it was clear that they would rebuild, not giving into the despair that the storm, in its heartlessness, wanted to impose on the hapless town, which had never knows such ferocity before, nor did it have the resources to cope with such a catastrophe, its only hope being its resourcefulness of human spirit and the ability to come together to overcome.

1. Faulkner was a genius, and unique in his writing abilities.

2. Not even Faulkner* wrote a continuous pile of such sentences, and I suspect you'll have trouble finding an editor today who approves of that.

I reiterate my point about sentences needing to have a focus, regardless of word length.

caw


*I have read me a lot of Ol' Bill's work.
 

Fallen

Stood at the coalface
Kind Benefactor
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Jun 9, 2009
Messages
5,500
Reaction score
1,957
Website
www.jacklpyke.com
That is three sentences crammed into one.

He went to the store and saw that there were some things on sale he really would like to buy. But sure enough, this was the one time he hadn't brought his wallet and wouldn't be able to purchase them, unless he was able to buy something with his phone. He'd never done anything like that before and was afraid to try, so he just went back home to get his wallet.

You are suffering from the delusion that there are a limited number of punctuation periods in the universe, and are afraid you will run out. Every sentence should have a focus, a single core around which it is structured. Piling up clauses erases that core, and you just wind up with a heap of words that will daunt most readers.

Even with that separation into sentences of more palatable length, the example is wordy, My quick edit:

He went to the store and saw some things on sale he really would like to buy. But sure enough, this one time he hadn't brought his wallet and couldn't, unless he was able to buy with his phone. He'd never done anything like that before and was afraid to try, so he just went back home for his wallet.

^ This

Most times it comes down to processing, and just how readers take in information. Keep stacking the conjuntions, it's just piling image on top of image and not giving the reader time and a reasonable pace to process what's goin on.

Readers are generally used to processing in 1s, 2s, 3s or 4s, but that's with familiar patterns, e.g., He ran. (1). He ran, and X bolted after him (2). He came, he saw, he played coconuts (3). Let's go do X, X, and X, then maybe X after that (4). But repeatedly stack all that together in one paragraph, with only commas to break it up, and it starts to go against how readers process and retain information. The question should be: is it really needed? Would breaking it down sharpen the imagery and make processing easier for readers?
 

Chase

It Takes All of Us to End Racism
Kind Benefactor
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Jan 13, 2008
Messages
9,239
Reaction score
2,316
Location
Oregon, USA
I know sentences can be overlong and wordy, but is there a good rule of thumb for not overdoing it?

When I studied creative writing in grad school, one of my professors suggested this sentence mix:

About 50% simple sentences . . .
Among approximately 30% compound sentences joined by and, or, nor, but, for, yet, or so . . .
With maybe 15% complex sentences beginning with an introductory element . . .
And limiting compound-complex sentences to 5%.