A Question About Height

Soon the theatre people will be here, with up-to-date info. What do you need to happen? Death, injury, miraculous escape?

No theatre specialist, but whether the fall kills them or not is probably dependent on how they fall. Like jumping off a roof. Also, does the fall have to kill or injure them? I've seen movies and TV shows where heavy stuff like lights, and the sandbags used to balance/adjust stuff falls down and hits or just misses people. So lots of options.

I don't know the answer to the theatre question, but the fall from a height question - whether someone survives doesn't just depend on the height, it depends on other factors like what they land on, and what part(s) of their body hit the ground first, and on the person themselves. If someone's fit, muscular, has a healthy bone density, isn't elderly or frail, they're going to be much less injured than if someone in their 90s who has osteoporosis fell from the same height and landed in the exact same way.

People can occasionally survive hitting the ground after falling from high enough height to reach terminal velocity, e.g. falling from a plane without a parachute. Survive is very rare but possible http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-435377/The-man-fell-12-000-ft---survived.html

And people can die from falling on their head from just a couple of metres if their head hits something in such a way that it causes fatal bleeding on their brain. People have been killed with just one punch - either the punch itself causes a brain bleed, or their head hitting the ground or some other object on the ground causes a brain bleed. Having alcohol in your blood increases the risk of bleeding in the brain if you sustain a head injury.

So the height of the gantry makes little difference. It'll be well within the height range where both death and survival are plausible. Additionally, it's likely to have a wooden floor, which will have some give, and this will increase the chances of survival compared to a harder surface like concrete.

If you want your character to die from the fall, have them land on their head (especially if the side of the head strikes the ground first) or the side of their head hits a hard object as they land or on the way down. They suffer a subdural haemorrhage and die. With brain bleeding, you can also choose if the character has a period of being conscious before they die or not. Being unconscious after impact and never regaining consciousness before dying is very plausible, as is having a "lucid interval" where they are conscious - can even be fully conscious - before deteriorating, losing consciousness completely and then dying. You know that card you get in A&E in hospitals if you hit your head - the dial 999* if you get any of these signs/symptoms - those are the signs/symptoms of brain bleeding and your character would likely have some of those signs before they lose consciousness after the lucid interval. If you want them to have this kind of injury but survive, have a good team of paramedics arrive promptly and rush them to hospital (air ambulance if set in the UK as they have specialist teams with more resources for dealing with severe head injuries before the patient gets to hospital). They'll probably need brain surgery (ask doctors, especially air ambulance doctors, for the finer details).

*I presume they have the same thing in the USA but they would say dial 911

If you want your character to survive the fall, then they can land on a flat, wooden surface, not particularly awkwardly, but some other part of their body that's not the head takes the brunt of the impact. They'd likely suffer broken bones, but not a fatal head injury. Bear in mind that breaks to large bones such as the pelvis or femur can cause fatal internal bleeding, so if you want them to survive without medical intervention, don't have them break those bones. But if you want a big medical drama followed by a stay in hospital possibly including surgery, then do have them break those bones.

ETA: also, I don't think there'd be a standard height for something like this. Theatres vary a lot in size. So that gives you a lot of leeway.

konstantineblacke said:

Thank you. It is rather delicious the possibilities, isn't it?

I just want to know if falling from that height is something large enough in distance so that there is a danger. As in, not something someone could 'jump' from without too much harm.

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Even if it is plausible that an acrobat or parkour expert who knows how to land safely can jump from that height (you'd have to research whether it is or not, and how they do it - you tube probably has videos about it0, it doesn't mean anyone will land safely. If you want them to come to harm, have them fall head first.

ETA: threads like these make us writers sound like total psychopaths...

No idea how high gantries are, but I did do some research about falling from heights for my last MS.

I landed (heh) on 20 ft as the ideal distance from which you could fall and be injured but not necessarily be killed. Of course, there are a lot of variables -- you could fall from higher and be fine, or you could fall from lower and die.

Depends entirely on the theatre and stage. Bigger stage, bigger proscenium, higher the tech goes.

I'd guess your problem with searching is that you're calling it a gantry. I've never heard it called that, ever. That's where you access a rocket//space ship to me. You hang lights off the bottom of the catwalk, or off lighting poles that run adjacent underneath, in general, in my experience. It'd certainly likely harm you, even in a small theatre. In a large one, or any I suppose, depends how you land (and the floor --a sprung floor will probably help you some).

konstantineblacke said:

I thought the proscenium is in front of the curtains. I need this to be backstage, and always understood that to be the gantry.

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The proscenium is, but in a bigger theatre it's higher up -- it dictates the height of the tech, basically, as it's the 'top' of the stage from the audience's perspective.

I've never heard gantry in a theatre. Maybe this is a UK/US thing if you're from the UK, or something, I dunno. The gantry is how you access space ships, heh. It's like, movable? Temporary? I dunno, but no theatre I've been in has called it that. Maybe all the others do. *shrug*

Former theatre person here. Never heard of the term gantry. The lights, etc. are hung from the catwalk, and height will vary depending on if you're talking about the part that's directly over the lip of the stage (not as far) or more out into the house where the seats are (further, and also with extra danger of falling onto seats). Height is also going to depend on the size of the theatre.

But the catwalk isn't backstage, if you're needing something to be backstage.

It would definitely be a scary moment to fall from the catwalk and be suspended by ropes like you describe. You may not die from the fall but there would definitely be injuries of some kind.

As an approximation, according to the CDC, 50% of falls from three times your height will be fatal. In other words, an 18" infant will have a fatal fall from the arms of a tall person 50% of the time, while a six-footer will have a fatal fall from 18' 50% of the time. How you fall, how you land, and other factors will determine whether any particular fall is fatal.

Jim Clark-Dawe

Jeneral said:

Former theatre person here. Never heard of the term gantry. The lights, etc. are hung from the catwalk, and height will vary depending on if you're talking about the part that's directly over the lip of the stage (not as far) or more out into the house where the seats are (further, and also with extra danger of falling onto seats). Height is also going to depend on the size of the theatre.

But the catwalk isn't backstage, if you're needing something to be backstage.

It would definitely be a scary moment to fall from the catwalk and be suspended by ropes like you describe. You may not die from the fall but there would definitely be injuries of some kind.

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I've definitely had catwalks backstage -- deeper the stage, farther back over the stage they go. I've never seen a theatre with lights hung over the actual house (though I've seen minimal rigging for in case something needs to fly). That's terrifying sounding! Lights go in back of the house (in a balcony, insert, whatever) or over the stage in my experience. I wonder if this is geographic or due to particular theatre setups, heh.

cornflake said:

I've definitely had catwalks backstage -- deeper the stage, farther back over the stage they go. I've never seen a theatre with lights hung over the actual house (though I've seen minimal rigging for in case something needs to fly). That's terrifying sounding! Lights go in back of the house (in a balcony, insert, whatever) or over the stage in my experience. I wonder if this is geographic or due to particular theatre setups, heh.

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My High School theater had lighting positions inset into the ceiling over the house, accessed from catwalks above the ceiling of the theater.

But back to the question in hand -- this site: Glossary of Technical Theater Terms has some interesting info. I'd think that Catwalk or Bridge would work, but lighting that flys (along with everything else that flys) is supported by the grid at the top of the fly tower.

When we did lighting in High School, we'd lower the appropriate lighting bar from the fly tower, and work on the lights while standing on the stage.

Duncan J Macdonald said:

My High School theater had lighting positions inset into the ceiling over the house, accessed from catwalks above the ceiling of the theater.

But back to the question in hand -- this site: Glossary of Technical Theater Terms has some interesting info. I'd think that Catwalk or Bridge would work, but lighting that flys (along with everything else that flys) is supported by the grid at the top of the fly tower.

When we did lighting in High School, we'd lower the appropriate lighting bar from the fly tower, and work on the lights while standing on the stage.

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I can see inset more than just hanging open over the house -- as even cabled, I have seen shit fall.

Yeah, it really depends on the theatre. But both my high school theatre and a regional theatre I worked in after college had a catwalk that was over the house, maybe the first 5-10 rows or so? And honestly, my expertise is in costumes, so my only real experience with that stuff is the time or two that I had to go up in the catwalk and run a follow spot for someone. Those were definitely out in the house. The lights themselves were pretty much all over the stage and maybe a little ways out into the house?

Cornflake, maybe we're thinking different things in terms of backstage. I was thinking the actual backstage area, where dressing rooms, costume shop, etc. are. If you're talking the wings just offstage, I suppose there are lights there?

Sat Nam! (Literally "Truth Name"--a Sikh greeting)

I'm thinking that the OP means the back part of the stage, rather than backstage as in costume storage and dressing areas.

Blessings,

Siri Kirpal

Jeneral said:

Yeah, it really depends on the theatre. But both my high school theatre and a regional theatre I worked in after college had a catwalk that was over the house, maybe the first 5-10 rows or so? And honestly, my expertise is in costumes, so my only real experience with that stuff is the time or two that I had to go up in the catwalk and run a follow spot for someone. Those were definitely out in the house. The lights themselves were pretty much all over the stage and maybe a little ways out into the house?

Cornflake, maybe we're thinking different things in terms of backstage. I was thinking the actual backstage area, where dressing rooms, costume shop, etc. are. If you're talking the wings just offstage, I suppose there are lights there?

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Oh, no, I meant backstage as in behind the apron/behind the visible part of the stage, including wings (though that's usually just footlights to counter something and fly ropes and such ime). Not like, actual backstage, heh.

Spots over the house but not in a balcony ? :O Heh.

Just FYI -- and this may differ by theatre, as setups clearly differ, but the easiest way to fall from the catwalk, unless someone is just walking along and gets shoved, I suppose, is while hanging lights, because (again ime), you hang underneath, and thus end up laying down and working that way. It's not uncommon to lean over/under to adjust something, hook something, etc., and union/big shops can have guidelines and whatever to secure you, other places don't. It's not likely you'd just pitch over, but leaning far out or under to reach something...

Sat Nam! (Literally "Truth Name"--a Sikh greeting)

Not sure about the wings, but you enter or exit stage right or stage left. These are determined by which is to your right or left as you face the audience.

Blessings,

Siri Kirpal