Agented, published, and no career

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Fuchsia Groan

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I'm just saying that in general, it's my belief agents who act like this are either just plain callous, or don't want/know how to nurture an author's career when it doesn't blast into the stratosphere instantly.

This is my sense, too. Agents and editors do have the power to hurt an author in a peculiarly intimate way, when they start out as enthusiastic readers of our work and morph over time into unenthusiastic or even hostile readers. And it's especially painful to see their opinions influenced by how the market (which we can't control) has received us. But I don't think this transformation indicates any sort of evil master-plan on their part — legit agents are too busy for that. Essentially, the power to crush us is a power that we (authors) give them by really, really, really caring what they think (speaking from painful past experience here).

It means so much for us to find a sympathetic industry reader, and hanging on every tidbit of their feedback can help us improve. Until, for various reasons, the relationship stops being productive for either party. Then it's important to know when to move on. I totally second the imperative to take back control, but I think it's in our power always to be in control of how we see our work. When we let our faith in ourselves depend primarily on external factors, that's a problem. (Not implying there is anything easy about changing that! It's an ongoing struggle.)
 
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lizmonster

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It means so much for us to find a sympathetic industry reader, and hanging on every tidbit of their feedback can help us improve. Until, for various reasons, the relationship stops being productive for either party. Then it's important to know when to move on. I totally second the imperative to take back control, but I think it's in our power always to be in control of how we see our work. When we let our faith in ourselves depend primarily on external factors, that's a problem. (Not implying there is anything easy about changing that! It's an ongoing struggle.)

One of the things that I do see often - and was guilty of myself - is writers who will do absolutely anything rather than rock the boat with their agent. And that's exactly backwards. You've got to be able to have the business conversations at the first sign of divergence of goals, and you've both got to be clear with each other about what you do and don't want. Your agent isn't doing you some huge favor by repping your work: she's doing her job (and getting paid). And the second she can no longer do that job effectively for you - which can be as benign as a simple incompatibility of goals - it's time to strongly consider moving on.

And of course it's terrifying to think of being without an agent, and of potentially never getting one again. Because that's a thing that happens, no matter how many starry-eyed successful authors tweet "all it takes is perseverance!" six times a day.

But a bad agent/author relationship can actually be damaging. And you have zero chance of moving forward without severing that relationship. Risky as it is, it beats the hell out of having your career pummeled to death by a sure thing.
 

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But a bad agent/author relationship can actually be damaging. And you have zero chance of moving forward without severing that relationship. Risky as it is, it beats the hell out of having your career pummeled to death by a sure thing.

This is so true, Liz. I parted ways with my agent last year, and am kicking myself for not doing it sooner.
 

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I'm going to agree with everyone else here - fire your agent. They're destroying your sense of self-worth, which has killed your creativity.

Take some time out, breathe, be.

Remember you were successful in the past (I would kill for a Kirkus star!) and have the capability to be so again. Once you're shot of this agent you'll be free to write the thing you're obviously good at, rather than what you've been pushed into trying to write.

But step one, fire the agent.
 

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I'm so sorry this has happened to you. I echo those who say "fire the agent." Also... feel free to ignore if this isn't helpful, but it sounds like you had quite a few readers of your first book--have you connected with those readers? Are any of them fans? I ask because maybe connecting with some of the people who enjoyed your work, cutting away the business layers temporarily to revisit just writing and sharing--maybe that would help shake you out of the paralysis.

I don't know your career goals, so I'm definitely not proposing anything dramatic. But I know that even on my own small scale, the connection with audience that my blog has brought has reinvigorated me creatively when I was slumping.

Rooting for you!
 

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Wow, such a tough situation, but such a good reminder to all of us who are hoping to become 'debut' authors. I agree that your agent sounds like she is no longer the best person to help promote your work. I also agree with Qwest that a good critique partner or group could work wonders for your confidence. Clear your head, give yourself permission NOT to write until you feel inspired, and then start from there. I think being forced to write off-genre sounds incredibly difficult and is likely a huge reason as to why you're not feeling particularly motivated or successful. You're not alone though, I've seen similar posts on other sites and I think this is more common than people would like to believe. Congrats on what you HAVE accomplished though, it sounds like you are more successful than many writers out there : )
 

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Strictly from a mental health angle, never let one person determine your worth. I'm new to this site and new to writing and trying to publish, but to be quite trite, there are many fish in the sea. Lawyers and agents can be demoralizing or invigorating....I hope you have a plan to move on.
"Life has no limitations, except the ones you make." Les Brown
 

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If she's making you feel like a failure, ditch her! I'm not at this part of the process yet, but if said agent is literally destroying your confidence and making you hate writing, they aren't worth another second of your time. Confidence is a hidden key to anything. To give a non-writing example, new drivers getting their licenses need mentors/teachers that will instill confidence in them. No confidence is a MASSIVE issue. It's the same here!

Re-explore writing and try to discover why you fell in love with it! Compare and contrast work from when you started to what you write now! Look at how far you've come!! Or take a step back to breath, gather yourself and dive back in when you feel like you've had a good break.

There are so many writers that have failed at some point in their careers, you could probably write five trilogies and still have enough for ten more. J.K Rowling sent her first manuscript to multiple publishers and was told by one no one would give two craps about it. I know she's that rare situation, but still, look at her NOW.

It sounds like your agent throws failure around like she invented the word. It sounds like she's forgotten that taste is subjective.

Seriously though. Take a deep breath, and ditch her! : ) You got our support! <3
 

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J.K Rowling sent her first manuscript to multiple publishers and was told by one no one would give two craps about it. I know she's that rare situation, but still, look at her NOW.

Going to be a negative nelly here, only because this particular urban myth of "JK Rowling's rejections" needs to be corrected every time it comes out to fool the unwise, but she was only ever rejected for HP ONCE, for one of the only 2 agents she queried... got another agent on the second round.

And she never sent Harry Potter to publishers. Her agent sent a whole heap of manuscripts out as they always do, one replied positively, and she was paid what today is quite a significant advance for a MG book. Nobody ever said Harry Potter wouldn't sell, in fact it was a success from the moment she stuck her second stamp on the query letter.

Not trying to be mean, I know it is a beautiful fairy story, but only an unrealistic fever dream . She had the dreamiest of dream runs. No rejection struggles for her!! :e2shrug:
 
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lizmonster

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Going to be a negative nelly here, only because this particular urban myth of "JK Rowling's rejections" needs to be corrected every time it comes out to fool the unwise, but she was only ever rejected for HP ONCE, for one of the only 2 agents she queried... got another agent on the second round.

I'm fond of the "Tom Clancy was rejected 250 times and eventually published HUNT FOR RED OCTOBER with a tiny military press" story. Because apparently that one's true (although I can't find a cite right now for the number of rejections).

TBH I don't find these stories particularly helpful, but I know many people do.
 

mrsmig

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Well, the Naval Institute Press, which first published The Hunt for Red October, is hardly a "tiny military press." It's a well-established niche press which has been around since the late 1800s. It publishes about 80 books a year, primarily nonfiction, with a focus on military history, biography and professional manuals.

The Hunt for Red October was the NIP's first fiction release, and that's what made it unusual. I remember it particularly since I was working in Crystal City at the time, a corporate development in Northern Virginia located close to the Pentagon and home to a number of adjunct service offices as well as military contractors. It featuring an underground mall, and the Walden Books in that mall had a very well-attended signing of THFRO that they trumpeted several weeks in advance.

The one cite I could find regarding the number of rejections is in this Mother Jones article - and it just says "several."

ETA: Found another cite and it states that the book was rejected 12 times before finding its home at NIP. Twelve times. And NIP gave him a $5k advance. And that was in the 1980s.

Oh, boo hoo.
 
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lizmonster

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ETA: Found another cite and it states that the book was rejected 12 times before finding its home at NIP. Twelve times. And NIP gave him a $5k advance. And that was in the 1980s.

Oh, boo hoo.

Yeah, the 250 might well be apocryphal, or refer to agents. I swear I found it once, but I'm willing to believe it's incorrect.

Ronald Reagan mentioned the book too, apparently, which gave it a HUGE boost.

All of these stories, accurate or otherwise, tend to feed into the "all I need to do is get an agent/sell a book and I'll be ON MY WAY" myth. Although they're less annoying than the "Just persevere!" stories of successful writers. Those manage to suggest we're not successful because we're somehow not working hard enough.

And it feels really churlish to counter those myths to newbies, who are still finishing and polishing something and are focusing on a shorter-term goal out of necessity. But I'm not sure maintaining the myths does anybody any favors.
 

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Yeah, the 250 might well be apocryphal, or refer to agents. I swear I found it once, but I'm willing to believe it's incorrect.

Ronald Reagan mentioned the book too, apparently, which gave it a HUGE boost.

All of these stories, accurate or otherwise, tend to feed into the "all I need to do is get an agent/sell a book and I'll be ON MY WAY" myth. Although they're less annoying than the "Just persevere!" stories of successful writers. Those manage to suggest we're not successful because we're somehow not working hard enough.

And it feels really churlish to counter those myths to newbies, who are still finishing and polishing something and are focusing on a shorter-term goal out of necessity. But I'm not sure maintaining the myths does anybody any favors.

My second day of my first publishing internship I asked my boss what he thought of the "keep going until you make it" thing and he told me that was nonsense. Some people have been querying for 20 years without making a dent. They either write market unfriendly things or their writing just isn't up to parr (which could just mean it's not translating to agents, make of that what you will). He then said: "They should take up woodwork."

I remember thinking that was unbelievably mean and jaded. I still think it's jaded but...the more I learn about this business, hard work is definitely not all of it. Wouldn't it be nice if it were. :(
 

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Every time someone shares some variant of, ‘a professional writer is an amateur who didn’t quit’ I twitch. Survivorship bias is real.
 

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My second day of my first publishing internship I asked my boss what he thought of the "keep going until you make it" thing and he told me that was nonsense. Some people have been querying for 20 years without making a dent. They either write market unfriendly things or their writing just isn't up to parr (which could just mean it's not translating to agents, make of that what you will). He then said: "They should take up woodwork."

I remember thinking that was unbelievably mean and jaded. I still think it's jaded but...the more I learn about this business, hard work is definitely not all of it. Wouldn't it be nice if it were. :(

Yeah, jaded, but I think only because he was assuming people only write to be published. Many of us write because writing feeds us, and publishing is just a desire to share that.

Of course, right now I think I'm mostly writing out of spite. :)

Every time someone shares some variant of, ‘a professional writer is an amateur who didn’t quit’ I twitch. Survivorship bias is real.

Despite the fact that I someday hope to have an inspiring story of successful perseverance: YES.
 

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Honestly, it seems sometimes like it's completely random. You can find both successful and unsuccessful writers who've persevered, you can find writers who clicked right away, writers who took years, one-shot wonders, writers who put out book after book, writers who market like crazy and writers who think marketing is a punishment from hell... Of course, rationally, it's not random like the weather, but there are perhaps too many variables to be able to produce a 'formula for success'.

I guess the only real warning would be that if you're going into writing with the 'intention' of making a lot of money, you may want to have a backup plan. While it is certainly possible to make gobs of money, it's not the way to bet.
 

Fuchsia Groan

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My second day of my first publishing internship I asked my boss what he thought of the "keep going until you make it" thing and he told me that was nonsense. Some people have been querying for 20 years without making a dent. They either write market unfriendly things or their writing just isn't up to parr (which could just mean it's not translating to agents, make of that what you will). He then said: "They should take up woodwork."

I remember thinking that was unbelievably mean and jaded. I still think it's jaded but...the more I learn about this business, hard work is definitely not all of it. Wouldn't it be nice if it were. :(

As someone who has dealt with a LOT of self-published books, many (not all!) of which could not ever have been trade published, I confess to having had uncharitable thoughts like your boss's. Hard work can't do miracles. That said, I worked hard for about 10 years, writing several books and querying them, gathering rejections, and eventually managed to sell something.

Does that mean working even harder would eventually make me an NYT bestseller? No. But "If you don't succeed right away, you obviously have no talent" is also a myth, IMO. Sometimes it takes people a while to develop their craft or find a niche. Sometimes they need to gather life experience before their writing starts to click. Publishing and cultural trends can give them a boost, or leave them out in the cold. Sometimes their message or style all of a sudden catches the zeitgeist. Assuming someone has a base level of talent/competency, many outcomes are possible.

The trick is how you're supposed to know you have that base level of talent. Personally, I was never sure, even though writing is the one thing I've been praised most for since I was eight years old. There were always naysayers and still are. I admire any writer who's certain of their own talent; I'm only certain I love to write.
 

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I'm a latecomer, but I wanted to say I'm sorry this happened to you.

Most of us don't think of this side of things and don't realize it's a very real possibility. Unfortunately, a lot of people don't know what to do when they find themselves in this situation.

I wish more authors would share their stories like this so debut writers can prepare themselves. Moreover, we need to remind each other that it's okay to move on when it's not working (as so many people have done here).

Thank you for posting this.
 

Barbara R.

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These agents seem to know just how to push your buttons to get you to do what they want. They prey on your uncertainty, your fears, your insecurity, and your desire to please. When you don't perform like their little dancing marionette, they do their best to destroy your confidence so you don't wind up competing with their stable of other authors.
The best correlation to these tactics I can find is the domestically abusive relationship. It's the same kind of mental manipulation and exploitation. It's evil, and it's wrong. It destroys careers, and destroys an author's self confidence in themselves.

.

Wow. Some agent must have really messed you around. You say that not all agents are like that, yet you imply that hating, demeaning and controlling writers is quite a common among the breed.
On behalf of my former colleagues (I was an agent for 14 years before I gave it up to write, fool that I am) I protest! Of course, there are psychopaths in all professions and it's possible you encountered one, but they would be rare indeed. The agents I knew, and there were hundreds, were no different from us writers: that is, they were drawn to a non-lucrative profession because they love books. For most, that translates as loving writers, too. There's plenty of exasperation, sure, when writers act against their own interests; but I've never seen anything like the malice you describe.

What I have seen are writers who take rejection very personally and who blame agents for not appreciating their talent. It's a small step from there to attributing all kinds of nefarious motives and anti-writer conspiracies to them. For example, part of the agent's job is to educate their clients,especially the new ones, about how publishing works and what it takes, not just to publish one book, but to build a career. I can understand how writers, still amazed that they found an agent in the first place, might misinterpret information as direction or even demands.

But you know what? Writers aren't children. It's up to us to say no when the agent is suggesting the wrong direction or giving editorial advice that takes us further from, not closer to, the book we want to write. Agents don't wrest power away from writers; all too often, writers cede it.
 

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I have definitely seen agents abuse their position and their power and tbh it did have a lot of abusive relationship overlap. But I have also seen agents who took on the metaphorical Mongolian hordes for their clients so it goes both ways. Most are somewhere in the middle, I would imagine--dedicated but businesslike.
 

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I have definitely seen agents abuse their position and their power and tbh it did have a lot of abusive relationship overlap. But I have also seen agents who took on the metaphorical Mongolian hordes for their clients so it goes both ways. Most are somewhere in the middle, I would imagine--dedicated but businesslike.

Coincidentally, just minutes ago I ran across this Twitter thread.

It's a good question, and I think not a simple one. I suspect disgruntled queriers willing to blast an agent for rejecting them are more plentiful than lousy agents (that's just numbers - there are far more querying writers than there are agents). And there is a power imbalance, and then there's the much-touted whisper network that can work both ways, as well as spread falsehoods without giving the whisperee a chance to defend themselves.

I've come up with some criteria based on my own experiences, but odds are I'd have completely missed any red flags from that children's book agent.

I think we can begin by being professionals ourselves, and understanding that sometimes it really is better to move on to the next agent, no matter how long the road has been so far. I do believe that most agents are professionals doing the best work they can, but as with every industry out there, you'll run into some genuine jerks now and then.
 

Barbara R.

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Honestly, it seems sometimes like it's completely random. You can find both successful and unsuccessful writers who've persevered, you can find writers who clicked right away, writers who took years, one-shot wonders, writers who put out book after book, writers who market like crazy and writers who think marketing is a punishment from hell... Of course, rationally, it's not random like the weather, but there are perhaps too many variables to be able to produce a 'formula for success'.

I guess the only real warning would be that if you're going into writing with the 'intention' of making a lot of money, you may want to have a backup plan. While it is certainly possible to make gobs of money, it's not the way to bet.

It's not random. There are a lot of factors involved, which can make it seem that way, since luck--right place, right time--- is one of them. But luck is always a factor no matter what you do, so it's best to discount it.

Another factor is perseverance. It takes most people years of trying--writing, rewriting, then starting all over again with a new book-- to break into print. Most published writers have an early book, or several, didn't sell. How many people do you know with the grit to finish writing a whole novel, let alone three or four, before selling anything? Most sensible people would find something else to do. The ones who stick with it are obsessed. I know one writer, Edward Whittemore, who wrote seven books before selling one; and he was a brilliant writer, it just took him that much practice to get it right.

Another factor is talent. Yes, writing can be taught and learned---as a writing teacher I've watched many writers grow from promising to published. But success also depends on a level of innate talent --the luck of the chromosomes. If the writer has no feel for language, and no natural story-telling ability, that person isn't going to make it into print (unless they self-publish.) That's why non-readers almost never succeed as writers. If they're not strongly drawn to language and story as readers, they won't have the wherewithal to compose their own. Every published writer I've ever known was a voracious reader as a kid.

It's not fair, but hey---I always wanted to be in the NBA, and that's tough when you barely crack 5 feet.
 
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lizmonster

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It takes most people years of trying--writing, rewriting, then starting all over again with a new book-- to break into print.

I think we're talking about what happens when you've broken into print, but it doesn't go well.

What do we do then? Do we give up? Is this a one-strike-and-you're-out business? I've been told it is, and I've been told it isn't. I know what I want to believe, but I don't know if it's the truth.
 

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I think we're talking about what happens when you've broken into print, but it doesn't go well.

What do we do then? Do we give up? Is this a one-strike-and-you're-out business? I've been told it is, and I've been told it isn't. I know what I want to believe, but I don't know if it's the truth.

Same. I mean, I’ve seen comeback stories. (One local writer didn’t get published for a decade or more after his first, a dark literary novel, didn’t sell like hotcakes. He started writing dark thrillers, got a deal with Harper’s e-imprint, hit a list, and now he’s back in print.) And I’m sure perseverance, talent and versatility always increase the odds in a writer’s favor. But I know that formula doesn’t work for everyone, and I sometimes wonder just how radically a writer may need to reinvent herself when things don’t go well out of the gate.
 

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I think we're talking about what happens when you've broken into print, but it doesn't go well.

What do we do then? Do we give up? Is this a one-strike-and-you're-out business? I've been told it is, and I've been told it isn't. I know what I want to believe, but I don't know if it's the truth.

No, it's not "one strike and you're out." If it were, the world would be overflowing with one-book authors, because most first novels don't sell well. And of course agents and editors know that, and won't throw someone out on their ear for failing to write a bestseller first time out of the gate...if they love the new one.

But it does get harder. Everyone adores firsts novels; they're the cute little babies of the publishing world. Second novels after the first one tanked, not so much. The bar goes up, not down.

From my perspective though, it's always been tough and the odds are always stacked the other way. It's ALWAYS an uphill battle, so what difference does another degree or two make? The OP, right now, is stopping him/herself from writing by indulging in paralyzing doubts. That's the problem, more than the agent, IMO. Also, my guess based on the original post is that the OP is starting and stopping too many stories, instead of fully committing to one. It's tough to write with someone looking over your shoulder, even if it's a projection.

I've had 8 novels published and while they were beautifully reviewed, none was a bestseller. I've gone against my agent's advice by not sticking to one genre and building my readership. It was good commercial advice, but I decided that I have only so many books in me (I write slowly) and each one costs years of my life; so they might as well be the books I really want to write. I've also changed agents twice in my career---another no/no. Despite all these "missteps," I keep publishing, knock on wood, because each book wins them over anew.

All this is just to say you can always come back. Everything else aside, you can publish under a different name and clean the slate that way. The one thing you can't do is give up.
 
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