needing magic without it being magic... impossible?

aguywhotypes said:

I want something so I can "poof" make something just happen without it being magic.

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Such as?

To quote Arthur C. Clarke: "Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic."

Tech that's essentially magic (and magic that's essentially tech) is not new to the genre. Read around.

Why do you want to introduce plot elements without explanation? Or is it just one plot element that needs to be unexplainable at that point in the story?

aguywhotypes said:

Yeah, I was thinking of that and I think that's the only thing I've got to go with.

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So, think of what you want your "magic" to do, and come up with another explanation.

For instance, C. S. Friedman's Coldfire trilogy takes place on a far-future colony world, where a natural force manifests thoughts and fears physically, even to the point of taking a popular idea of a native species being potentially sentient and "hyperevolving" them over a few generations. So some people train themselves as "mages", while others fear and distrust this force. There are also "gods" that feed off specific human emotions, rewarding followers with energy manipulations. It's technically sci-fi, but bordering on fantasy.

If your problem is you're going for "realism" in a medieval setting, then you actually don't want magic, or anything that acts like magic. If the Black Knight can't use magic, but can snap his fingers like Thanos - guess what, that's not realism. Sci-fi fantasy can get away with it under "it's some sort of hypertechnology," but that's not going to be realistic in a setting where people fight with sharpened pieces of metal banged together by a smith.

There really is no way you can "poof!" make something happen without it being magic, unless you can give it a clear explanation. Without knowing what you want this mysterious force to do, it's hard to suggest what that explanation would be.

I think of it this way....

Magic <-- Pseudoscience --> Science (hard and soft sciences)

Anything you try will be magic, pseudoscience, or impossible. Your writing must be plausible, but should avoid the impossible. Rowling tried to steep Harry Potter in Mythology to give her myth some merit.

I'm in the confused camp. ATM it sounds like you want a very specifically-themed authorial fiat.

More context would help. Eg if this is an absurdist ms, things can happen with no explanation and no mechanics required.

If religious themed, it'd be a miracle. If tech themed, it'd be high end tech I guess.

It's really hard to make suggestions without a specific scenario. But I can tell you now that, as the AUTHOR, you already have the power to POOF anything you want into existence. I want a purple frog with butterfly wings? BOOM there he is. I want my MC to get a flat tire on the way to the Villain's Top Secret Meeting? KAPOW thud thud thud screwed. I want for it to be normal for people to breathe fire in my universe? WHAMMO ten minutes with Dr. Google and I've got a way for that to happen. (I've actually got a couple, sciencing dragons is unsurprisingly popular.)

If you want carte blanche to create the world you want, you've got it. I hearby bestow upon you a Fancy Imagining License. Go forth and make stuff up.

aguywhotypes said:

I want a mechanism or something that acts like magic but not being magic but still being in a fantasy setting.

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Is there a specific reason it can't be an unexplained supernatural occurrence? Is it the term "magic" that doesn't fit with your idea?

aguywhotypes said:

Nothing in particular. I don't even know the story I want to tell.

The more I'm thinking about this the more I'm thinking I'm writing sci-fi.

Maybe I want to move large things that are humanly impossible, like heavy boulders, trees, etc
but this doesn't need to be magic, maybe there are naturally super strong people who ate their spinach.

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telekinesis?

the question still doesn't make sense to me.

Gamey magic systems are a thing. Check out any Sanderson books and he has very rules heavy magic with physics included.

Plenty of scifi has unexplained tech.

Then there's stuff like energy channeling or more Asian themed things which are about inner ability rather than harnessing external powers, and they're fairly well explained without being called magic.

aguywhotypes said:

Nothing in particular. I don't even know the story I want to tell.

The more I'm thinking about this the more I'm thinking I'm writing sci-fi.

Maybe I want to move large things that are humanly impossible, like heavy boulders, trees, etc
but this doesn't need to be magic, maybe there are naturally super strong people who ate their spinach.

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You don't need magic. You need engineers. The guys who built siege engines, catapults, bridges, etc. The guys who built pyramids and cathedrals! (And wind and water mills.)
Low-tech sci-fi, perhaps? Leonardo with an unlimited budget.

aguywhotypes said:

Maybe it's more like I just want to see if I can do it without magic. I think I feel that magic is an easy copout or a way to make something grand happen without having to "explain it."

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As someone who writes magic heavy fantasy, allow me to say: and also:

it was the thought of...What if things and people could do "magic" like stuff without magic? What would that look like?

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Like engineering? You know like the Pyramid of Khufu, the megalithic ring structures, the Flavian Amphitheater, the Great Wall. All engineering. No magic needed.

Brightdreamer said:

To quote Arthur C. Clarke: "Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic."

Tech that's essentially magic (and magic that's essentially tech) is not new to the genre. Read around.

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I was going to mention that quote. Back around the year 1000 AD (I believe) there was a woman seer / mystic that foretold of people using "speaking stones" to communicate over great distances. It was magic then, today we call them cell phones (and are the bane of my existence).

Can't they just be mutants ala X-men? but in a historical fantasy setting.

Maybe you're looking for something like magical realism?

I don't know if "impossible" is the right word, just self-contradictory.

Something is either magic (however "magic" is defined within your story), or it's not. If you want something with magic-like effect that's not actually magic, then you simply have to decide whether your characters understand that, or if they believe it's magic anyway.

I'd say magnets are a good real-world example of "non-magic magic." People were using magnetic compasses for navigation long, LONG before they had any concept of why or how they actually worked. They unfailing orient themselves in dark or light, from nearly anyplace in the world, without any clear source of energy to explain even their ability to move, let alone explain how they know which direction is which - sounds pretty darn magical, doesn't it?

aguywhotypes said:

I want a mechanism or something that acts like magic but not being magic but still being in a fantasy setting.


What can I do?

Maybe what I really need is more sci-fi set in a non-modern world (medieval -ish)

I want something so I can "poof" make something just happen without it being magic.

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Others may have already said this, but magic has always just been science that isn't recognized as science yet. Alchemists were a real thing but they're magical in fantasy settings because at the time (18th or 19th century I believe) what they did was considered impossible. Think on that, and think of scientific properties that fit your need in the story.

Hope this helps!

There are famous example of what you describe, like the Anne McCaffrey dragons -- I am trying to remember the name of another one where what seemed like magic was caused by an alien substance that took on forms imagined by humans.