needing magic without it being magic... impossible?

Fujuman said:

Others may have already said this, but magic has always just been science that isn't recognized as science yet. Alchemists were a real thing but they're magical in fantasy settings because at the time (18th or 19th century I believe) what they did was considered impossible. Think on that, and think of scientific properties that fit your need in the story.

Hope this helps!

Click to expand...

Well, most of the time, when people thought some sort of magic or sorcery existed, it was entirely imaginary. Usually tied in some way to religious beliefs (service to Satan, invocation of demons, etc) or based on philosophical concepts (imaginary principles of sympathy, contagion, etc.)

Alchemists deliberately kept their art obscure to protect trade secrets. They did make some real discoveries, like the common strong acids, but were operating without the benefit of the scientific method, and came up with elaborate protoscientific systems of organization that were based on philosophy, not real physical principles. (Their most famous subject, the Philosopher's Stone, was totally mythical.)

By the 18th century, real science was picking up steam, real chemistry was starting to be understood and alchemy was a fringe belief, but there was still plenty of pseudoscience (Mesmerism, etc.) (One piece of 18th century nonsense, homeopathy, somehow still is around.)

Aguywhotypes, can you give us any more context?

veinglory said:

There are famous example of what you describe, like the Anne McCaffrey dragons -- I am trying to remember the name of another one where what seemed like magic was caused by an alien substance that took on forms imagined by humans.

Click to expand...

Solaris, maybe? It's a great basic idea that's been used in many variations.

It sounds like, from the rock example, you might want something like the magic potion from Asterix... only not magic?

For instance, perhaps instead of it being a magic potion, it was some kind of performance enhancing drug that unlocked their body's full potential. Pseudoscience stuff, yes, but not entirely unbelievable?

Either magic or science, you could use gravity manipulation as a means to move heavy objects around.
It comes to me how Kvothe (The Name Of The Wind) studied how to call the wind and the elements to perform magic-like deeds.

There is such a thing as magic with rules. (Some folks upthread have mentioned examples.) Also, advanced science appears magical.

I've written several things where the magic was essentially a weird science, or where science was perceived as magic. (The reasons for these things obviously vary between projects. One is a post-post apocalyptic setting where electricity [The Spark] is perceived as being the thing that gave Machine sentience and is therefore shunned. One in which certain types of "waves" are generated via gears producing certain sounds.)

Knowing what it is you want to do will help you figure out how to portray it - either through magic with rules or through advanced science concepts or theoretical science concepts. (There's a relatively old-school book I read in high school that involved "magic" that was primarily derived from telekenesis and harnessing the energy of black holes - some of which were sentient.)

veinglory said:

There are famous example of what you describe, like the Anne McCaffrey dragons -- I am trying to remember the name of another one where what seemed like magic was caused by an alien substance that took on forms imagined by humans.

Click to expand...

Coldfire trilogy?

There are things in the world right now that happen like magic, but simply isn't magic. As far as I know, magic doesn't really exist... but supernatural abilities do. Especially elemental affinities. So if you swing something in the way of the natural world, that has supernatural roots, then you don't need higher orders of technology to get the same result.