Army Orders Pizza and ICE

cornflake · Jun 6, 2018

An undocumented immigrant from Ecuador, who is married to an American citizen (they have two small children) and has applied for a green card, was delivering pizza to a place he'd been numerous times before -- Ft. Hamilton, in Bklyn, NY.

The guy at the gate told him he had to go to a different desk, where someone proceeded to ask him why he didn't have a social security card and other such questions, and then ICE agents arrived and picked him up. There are now protests, because, among other things, like what a pathetic, petty, little move this was, you're just an asshole if you fuck with delivery guys. That is a NYC rule of life: Treat delivery people well, they sustain us.

Story here

"I have been there before and always go in and never have had any problems, they actually know me and the sergeant knows me for some time doing delivery," Villavicencio told the Post. The paper reports he and his wife, an American citizen, have two young daughters and he had applied for a green card.

"Last Friday there was a different security guard and he told me I needed to go get another pass to enter," he said. "And I proceeded to do that. A tall man with dark skin started to ask me many questions, he asked me about why I didn't have any Social Security card."

According to Villavicencio, that man called the New York City Police Department (NYPD) "and the NYPD told him I didn't have any record, that I was clean. But the man said 'I don't care,' he said I need to keep waiting and he called ICE."

A Fort Hamilton spokesperson provided its version of events, saying that on Friday at approximately 11 a.m. "an individual attempted to gain access to Fort Hamilton to make a delivery without valid Department of Defense identification."

"The person was directed to the Visitor Control Center to obtain a daily pass. Upon signing a waiver permitting a background check, Department of the Army Access Control standard for all visitors, an active Immigration and Customs Enforcement warrant was discovered on file. This prompted the Department of Emergency Services personnel to contact the proper authorities, and transport the individual to DES for further processing, and released to U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement," the spokesperson said.

On Wednesday, New York City Councilman Justin Brannan and Brooklyn Borough President Eric Adams spoke out against the incident during a press conference.

"Tell me how this is American," Brannan tweeted. "Tell me how taking Pablo off the street makes our nation safer. I'm listening."

Bolding mine. Yeah, I'm so sure the base has people sign those waivers and runs background checks on every delivery guy comes by. Uh huh. Of course they do. Also every other visitor to a base in Brooklyn. Sure. Sounds totally legit.

MaeZe · Jun 6, 2018

This country has gone from disgusting to scary. There is no reason for this other than manufactured outrage by Trump.

Brightdreamer · Jun 6, 2018

MaeZe said:
This country has gone from disgusting to scary. There is no reason for this other than manufactured outrage by Trump.

I find it simultaneously disgusting and scary. And I place the blame for the manufactured outrage squarely on the entire TeaOP, without whom that person would not be in the position to manufacture outrage to begin with.

Cindyt · Jun 6, 2018

A bit OT, but I wonder if he had an immigration lawyer or if he applied for a green card himself. My husband was warned not to approach immigration himself, but to get a lawyer. Back then, the first step was to get a work visa. If homeland security accepts that petition there ain't nothing ICE can do about it, as I understand it. It's a long, expensive process that may get you nowhere except broke, though. I feel so sorry for people who believe just because they are married to an American citizen and have children they can cut the tape and get a green card. It does not work like that. The best thing is to be content with illegal residence and for God's sake not break laws or approach ICE.

cornflake · Jun 6, 2018

While it's not the main point, there's a special extra level of stupidity to this shit. As has been pointed out by endless people, undocumented immigrants are often the people doing the jobs Americans simply will not anymore. There are tons of stories, like this one (California farms offering $16/hr, 401ks, benefits, vacation, etc.), and this one, about how Americans will not pick produce, but that's not so much an issue in cities.

In cities, immigrants work the other end of food production -- they keep restaurants running, from cooking to washing dishes to cleaning after closing, to delivering, most all of which are, again, jobs most Americans don't want, don't want for the pay, or often try and quit immediately. What would happen in NYC if all the undocumented workers were taken out of every salad place (Hi, racist loony lawyer!), pizza place, every kitchen?

Probably something like this. These people are not just petty and pathetic, they're short-sighted as hell.

Sergio Roblero didn't need to imagine a “day without immigrants.” On Oct. 18 of last year, the 19-year-old line cook lived it.

At the time, Roblero -- who is from Chiapas, Mexico — was cooking at a popular Mexican restaurant called Agave in downtown Buffalo. He had overstayed a work visa by several months, he said, but he felt confident that, if he kept his head down, nothing would come of it. But early on the morning of Oct. 18, Immigration and Customs Enforcement raided not only Agave, but three sister establishments.

All told, 25 people, including Roblero, were arrested. And of the restaurants targeted in the raid, only one has since reopened...

“In major cities, you’re talking about a restaurant workforce that is maybe 75 percent foreign-born, and maybe 30 to 40 percent undocumented,” said Saru Jayaraman, a labor activist and the founder of the worker group Restaurant Opportunities Center United. “The restaurant industry in major cities would absolutely collapse without immigrants.”

I\m NOT suggesting it's ok to use undocumented employees as a means to exploit workers, or pay them below minimum wage, or anything of the sort. That is obviously a problem. Lots of restaurants pay well, just btw. It's just one more factor in the equation that I don't get why some people don't consider, or see, or ...

Kjbartolotta · Jun 6, 2018

Performative cruelty.

Technophobe · Jun 6, 2018

Yes, I'm sure this guy with a family and a paying, legitimate job is a real threat to the nation :Headbang:

.

LittlePinto · Jun 7, 2018

In a just world, the people on that base would have to get carry-out from this point on.

Tazlima · Jun 7, 2018

LittlePinto said:
In a just world, the people on that base would have to get carry-out from this point on.

Red line 'em. My neighborhood was red lined for years because delivery people were getting robbed, and as annoying as it was, I couldn't blame the companies for their decision. Delivery is a privilege, not a right.

Hoplite · Jun 7, 2018

Saw the story this morning and just did a hard eye-roll.

Family man doing his job and gets turned into ICE. Glad to see our nation is being kept safe from such villainy. :sarcasm

cornflake said:
Bolding mine. Yeah, I'm so sure the base has people sign those waivers and runs background checks on every delivery guy comes by. Uh huh. Of course they do. Also every other visitor to a base in Brooklyn. Sure. Sounds totally legit.

Actually, yes.

My wife grew up on millitary bases and I visited her on one, and after we were married and she no longer had a DoD ID we visited her parents at two different bases, belonging to different branches of the military.

I'm not fully familiar with base-life but from my experiences, yes, everyone who wants to come on base has to get clearance and that means at the least providing ID, and sometimes going through a background check to get a day pass. My wife and I had to wait over an hour at a visitor center so we could stay a weekend with her folks on base. I don't want to name the base, but it also had some facilities-and-or-areas open to the public, provided you passed a background check and obtained a day pass. People with valid Dod ID (e.g. former or current military plus their dependents) could drive on in, just show the guard your ID.

As far as delivery services go, I think businesses could get special permits so they didn't have to wait in line with everyone else to get on base. But it was far, far more common for the on-base residents to meet the delivery guy (especially for something like food) at the visitor center so as to avoid the whole hassle.

From the article:

"I have been there before and always go in and never have had any problems, they actually know me and the sergeant knows me for some time doing delivery," Villavicencio told the Post. The paper reports he and his wife, an American citizen, have two young daughters and he had applied for a green card.

"Last Friday there was a different security guard and he told me I needed to go get another pass to enter," he said. "And I proceeded to do that. A tall man with dark skin started to ask me many questions, he asked me about why I didn't have any Social Security card."

Maybe the old sergeant just turned a blind eye, maybe the new guy was being overly cautious or just flat-out screwed up procedure, sending a delivery guy to get an unnecessary pass, and once that process had started...well...there wasn't going to be any good outcome.

cornflake · Jun 7, 2018

Visiting a base, I can see. Every person delivering to a base, I can't, at least in a metro area. In a more rural area there are fewer delivery options.

It's a garrison in Bklyn -- I guarantee they get deliveries all day. All. Day. There's no way they're doing background checks on the dozens of deli, Chinese, pizza, laundry, grocery, drugstore, etc. people come by every dang day. I've never been in an office building or apt. bldg that didn't have a stream of delivery guys literally all day. Some offices have dedicated desks and cabinets for delivery guys to come to -- they like, tell the guard who it's for, the guard calls up, the delivery person goes to the cabinet or room and puts the bag there and leaves if it's prepaid, or waits; the person comes down to fetch their lunch, flowers, dry cleaning, booze, drugstore crap, etc.

Hoplite · Jun 7, 2018

cornflake said:
Visiting a base, I can see. Every person delivering to a base, I can't, at least in a metro area. In a more rural area there are fewer delivery options.

It's a garrison in Bklyn -- I guarantee they get deliveries all day. All. Day. There's no way they're doing background checks on the dozens of deli, Chinese, pizza, laundry, grocery, drugstore, etc. people come by every dang day. I've never been in an office building or apt. bldg that didn't have a stream of delivery guys literally all day. Some offices have dedicated desks and cabinets for delivery guys to come to -- they like, tell the guard who it's for, the guard calls up, the delivery person goes to the cabinet or room and puts the bag there and leaves if it's prepaid, or waits; the person comes down to fetch their lunch, flowers, dry cleaning, booze, drugstore crap, etc.

Your office building is not a military base. Two of the three bases I've been on were in or just outside metro areas. I also grew up in a place locked down like a military base, and was run with similar security. If you want delivery, you met the guy at the gate.

Found an article with some information from local restaurant owners regarding ID requirements. They conflict a bit, but either way Villavicencio wouldn't have met them. I'm beginning to suspect the security was previously lax, or the wording of news articles are vague and he had only delivered to the gate before and not try to enter the base.

Gregory Dragonetti, 50, manager of Campania Pizza near the base, says his workers all go through a military background check to get a pass that allows them in; otherwise, they’d need two forms of ID.

But a worker at Nonno’s Pizza on Third Avenue in Bay Ridge, right near the base, said delivery guys either simply show their driver’s license or drop off food at the gate.
...
A Pentagon spokesman noted there has been no policy change, but said the base commander might have tightened screening.

frimble3 · Jun 7, 2018

In any case, I'm all for a boycott of deliveries to the base, heck, to all bases, until the situation is cleared up, and the rules clearly explained and posted. No sense any more brave men with bags risking their futures.
'Red Line' is the term? Red line 'em all. And government offices, too. :rant:

cornflake · Jun 7, 2018

Hoplite said:
Your office building is not a military base. Two of the three bases I've been on were in or just outside metro areas. I also grew up in a place locked down like a military base, and was run with similar security. If you want delivery, you met the guy at the gate.

Found an article with some information from local restaurant owners regarding ID requirements. They conflict a bit, but either way Villavicencio wouldn't have met them. I'm beginning to suspect the security was previously lax, or the wording of news articles are vague and he had only delivered to the gate before and not try to enter the base.

How wouldn't he have been able to meet the 'show your ID and drop the delivery at the gate/wait for someone to come pay and grab it?

Hoplite · Jun 8, 2018

cornflake said:
How wouldn't he have been able to meet the 'show your ID and drop the delivery at the gate/wait for someone to come pay and grab it?

I think there's a bit of confusion. He would not have to show his ID if he waited for the resident to come pick up the food at the gate. "Meet them at the gate" is a common phrase meaning that the resident of a secured facility leaves the facility, meets their friend/family/delivery guy at a visitor center parking lot, and the resident then re-enters the facility. The person with no authorized access to the facility doesn't ever have to check-in with security or try to obtain a pass. They don't ever have to get out of the car. Just park, wait, hand off your stuff, and leave.

Villavicencio shouldn't have been able to enter the base because he didn't have proper ID.

Villavicencio's arrest has sent "shock waves" throughout New York City's immigrant community, including among those who regularly use the kind of municipal identification card that Villavicencio displayed during the incident.

"They (undocumented immigrants) were told with this ID, they would have some form of liberty in this city without being arrested," Brooklyn Borough President Eric Adams, a Democrat, said.
"We are setting a dangerous precedent with what we saw here," he added.

The IDNYC card was introduced in 2015 as a free and official proof of identification that could be obtained with limited documentation -- making it accessible to the nearly half million city residents without legal immigration status.

His city-issued ID is not acceptable for entering any federal facility. At the very least he needed a standard driver's license, if New York had an extension for the REAL ID requirements.

cornflake · Jun 8, 2018

Hoplite said:
I think there's a bit of confusion. He would not have to show his ID if he waited for the resident to come pick up the food at the gate. "Meet them at the gate" is a common phrase meaning that the resident of a secured facility leaves the facility, meets their friend/family/delivery guy at a visitor center parking lot, and the resident then re-enters the facility. The person with no authorized access to the facility doesn't ever have to check-in with security or try to obtain a pass. They don't ever have to get out of the car. Just park, wait, hand off your stuff, and leave.

Villavicencio shouldn't have been able to enter the base because he didn't have proper ID.

His city-issued ID is not acceptable for entering any federal facility. At the very least he needed a standard driver's license, if New York had an extension for the REAL ID requirements.

The bill allowing undocumented immigrants to get driver's licences hasn't, to my knowledge, passed in NY yet, though I believe it's pending, so he wouldn't have a driver's license.

It's totally unclear to me whether he was dropping off -- as the beginning of the CNN thing indicates -- in which case, yes, he'd go to the gate, to let them know the delivery was there, or going on to the base for some reason, or waiting just beyond the gate for whomever to fetch.

He's been delivering there regularly without a problem and I find it hard to believe he only EVER saw one sgt., who was some crazy rule breaker.

Hoplite · Jun 8, 2018

cornflake said:
The bill allowing undocumented immigrants to get driver's licences hasn't, to my knowledge, passed in NY yet, though I believe it's pending, so he wouldn't have a driver's license.

It's totally unclear to me whether he was dropping off -- as the beginning of the CNN thing indicates -- in which case, yes, he'd go to the gate, to let them know the delivery was there, or going on to the base for some reason, or waiting just beyond the gate for whomever to fetch.

He's been delivering there regularly without a problem and I find it hard to believe he only EVER saw one sgt., who was some crazy rule breaker.

Yeah, not that it matters much at this point, but it's difficult trying to sort out exactly what led to Villavicencio trying to get a pass.He should only ever have been directed to get a pass if he was trying to get on base, but then his warrant would have popped up on previous background checks, so it seems likely in the past he just waited in the parking lot.

cornflake · Jun 8, 2018

Which he was presumably doing the same thing the other day -- why would he WANT to go on base? Takes time. He's got other orders to deliver.

Kaiser-Kun · Jun 8, 2018

Gotta wonder what goes through the snitches' minds. "Oh look, some guy I don't know, happily studying/working, let's make him lose his work, tear his family apart, throw him in jail, ruin his life and throw him out of the country".

Twick · Jun 8, 2018

Just background info - I had to go onto Clarksville base about 10 years ago. When I showed my Canadian passport as ID there was great consternation. I needed to get special permission from someone very high up to get in, even though I was escorted everywhere I went.

Kaiser-Kun · Jun 8, 2018

Twick said:
Just background info - I had to go onto Clarksville base about 10 years ago. When I showed my Canadian passport as ID there was great consternation. I needed to get special permission from someone very high up to get in, even though I was escorted everywhere I went.

Well you guys burned down the White House.

cornflake · Jun 8, 2018

Twick said:
Just background info - I had to go onto Clarksville base about 10 years ago. When I showed my Canadian passport as ID there was great consternation. I needed to get special permission from someone very high up to get in, even though I was escorted everywhere I went.

Yeah, but again, he was just delivering pizza, which he'd done there plenty before, so presumably, he was standing there waiting for someone to come take the pizza out of his hands, not trying to go roam around the base.v

Kaiser-Kun said:
Well you guys burned down the White House.

True fact. You're gonna have to talk to Frederick Douglass about pardoning you guys for that I think, otherwise...

Hoplite · Jun 8, 2018

cornflake said:
Which he was presumably doing the same thing the other day -- why would he WANT to go on base? Takes time. He's got other orders to deliver.

Yup, my thoughts as well. Maybe he figured this time it would be faster just to drop it off at the resident's door rather than wait around. I also suspect that Villavicencio mistakenly thought he was a legal resident (was married to an American, had American kids, had a certified ID from the city, etc.) and a background check wouldn't come back with anything.

We'll see if this link works:
https://www.google.com/maps/place/F...114106c65de751!8m2!3d40.6094454!4d-74.0285434

That's Google satellite view of the visitor entrance to the base. There's a small parking lot turn-in just before the guard shack. Perhaps the entrance was blocked up, or Villavicencio missed the turn, and he drove up to the gate. Guard mistakenly thought he wanted on the base and told him he needed a pass :Shrug:

cornflake · Jun 8, 2018

Hoplite said:
Yup, my thoughts as well. Maybe he figured this time it would be faster just to drop it off at the resident's door rather than wait around. I also suspect that Villavicencio mistakenly thought he was a legal resident (was married to an American, had American kids, had a certified ID from the city, etc.) and a background check wouldn't come back with anything.

We'll see if this link works:
https://www.google.com/maps/place/F...114106c65de751!8m2!3d40.6094454!4d-74.0285434

That's Google satellite view of the visitor entrance to the base. There's a small parking lot turn-in just before the guard shack. Perhaps the entrance was blocked up, or Villavicencio missed the turn, and he drove up to the gate. Guard mistakenly thought he wanted on the base and told him he needed a pass

You know, at first, I was like why would you think a pizza delivery guy would be driving, then looked at where the place is and I've no idea why they order from there. Still not sure he had a car, or was driving if he did -- could've been some giant order and someone else drove, as he certainly wasn't charged with driving without a license.

I don't think he thought he was a legal resident -- he'd applied for a green card. He said the jackass first called the NYPD and got nothing back, because he has no criminal record or warrants.

Twick · Jun 8, 2018

Kaiser-Kun said:
Well you guys burned down the White House.

Well, Americans stole the Great Seal of Prince Edward Island, so we had to get our own back.

(I spent my childhood believing the Great Seal was something like a walrus.)

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