Agent or publisher? (and some other stuff)

efreysson said:

I just got the manuscript for the first in my new fantasy trilogy back from a beta reader, so I guess I better get serious about looking for a publisher.

It's been years since I gave up trying to get published traditionally, and I've since self-pubbed six books on Amazon (seventh coming soon). But I have no talent for marketing, and I have now given up on THAT. Now I'm wondering what my next step should be.

America or Britain? Should I contact the big publishers, or are the smaller ones likelier to give an unknown a chance? Should I try to get an agent, or just contact the publishers directly?

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What are your goals? What's the category?

You can't generally contact big publishers directly (I mean you technically can but most don't take unsolicited material of any stripe).

I'd start by polishing up your query letter skills and then looking for an agent first, since they are the ones that can get your work in front of the bigger publishers. If that doesn't pan out, you can always try for a smaller publisher, but why not start at the top first? Good luck!

efreysson said:

Ah, yes. Query letters. Never long enough, never short enough. Always too much detail, and always too little. Criticised by everyone, but never for the same things.

Sorry. I just felt a pit open in my stomach.



Thanks.

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There’s tons of good query advice over in Hell, of course, but I’d just advise this: don’t get caught up in trying to please every single person with your query. It’s not possible. Write a good-enough one, and agents with an interest in your type of story will be interested.

I've critiqued so many queries, and honestly, there is no such thing as a perfect query. It's so subjective. Do the best you can, and don't stress over details. What's much more important is the sample pages you include. Good luck!

efreysson said:

I just got the manuscript for the first in my new fantasy trilogy back from a beta reader, so I guess I better get serious about looking for a publisher.

It's been years since I gave up trying to get published traditionally, and I've since self-pubbed six books on Amazon (seventh coming soon). But I have no talent for marketing, and I have now given up on THAT. Now I'm wondering what my next step should be.

America or Britain? Should I contact the big publishers, or are the smaller ones likelier to give an unknown a chance? Should I try to get an agent, or just contact the publishers directly?

Click to expand...

If you want to look for a trade deal you're going to be best off trying to get an agent first, and if that doesn't work, then you can approach smaller publishers direct. The bigger ones will only deal with agents; and it makes sense for all sorts of reasons to aim for them first.

Yes, it's horrible writing query letters and getting on the submissions train. But yes, that's how you do this and yes, you can do it.

efreysson said:

I just want my stuff published by someone who actually knows how to do it.

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Hey, that's good! There's your goal!

As for UK/America, I think you should start with what you're most comfortable with or the market you see it fitting in with more. It feels overwhelming to take on both at the same time since I've noticed that UK agents ask for an entirely different cover letter thing.

As for small press vs. agents: What are you looking for in terms of distribution? Cornlake is right - if you're thinking a Big 5 or something like that, you'd want to go through an agent. But there are a lot of great presses, big and small, open to unagented subs. Do you want to your book to be in physical form or ebook? Available in Barnes and Noble or just online? How much editorial freedom, per se, do you want to have? These are some questions that'll narrow down what you're looking for. I personally worked for two small indie presses and the relationships with the authors/benefits we tried to give them were awesome, even if the distribution was mainly regional. So really, it all comes down to what you want from the experience.

efreysson said:

Ah, yes. Query letters. Never long enough, never short enough. Always too much detail, and always too little. Criticised by everyone, but never for the same things.

Sorry. I just felt a pit open in my stomach.



Thanks.

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QLH is a tool, not a guide. Remember, people who crit there come from every level of experience and ability. That's what makes it valuable--they're all readers--but it also means you're never going to get a huge amount of direct guidance. You decide what you take.

The one and only thing a query must do is intrigue an agent enough to get her to request pages. This is both harder and easier than it sounds. Harder in that agents get inundated with queries. Easier in that, partly because of that inundation, good writing, neat voice, and story beats in mostly the right place stand out.

There's also quite a range in what kind of query agents like, so you can't please them all with just one type. Some like more jacket-ish copy, some like a very synopsis-y query, some like something else entirely. So go with something that you think shows the story in its best light and don't sweat the small stuff.

As for where to publish, there are agents in both the UK and US (as well as other places, but primarily those countries, for English-language) and many of the best will have foreign rights departments or co-agents who handle foreign sales--this is part of what an agent does, after all, and it can be a critical part of how an author makes money. Personally, I'd look for agents who seem like they'd like your book in both the US and UK. You only need one bite.

Start high. Like, really high--if your book is good enough to get an agent's attention, you don't want to settle for a middle-of-the-road agent when the biggest agent in your genre may also have said yes. Most agents these days have fairly extensive online profiles--Twitter, MSWL, Publisher's Marketplace pages, agency bios, etc. Look through those, get a sense of their tastes, and cast a wide net.

Well...

efreysson said:

Obviously I would like to get the biggest representation possible, but I feel safe in assuming the big ones give an author less editorial freedom. I do write out of passion, and so feel protective of my stories.

Your assumption is unfounded. Different agents have different styles--some are more editorial, some are hands off--and that can be true of agents within the same agency--even "big ones."

Well, a part of my zero marketing ability is my zero social media ability. Do you think I'll get anywhere by just Googling "horror fantasy literary agent", combing through the results for agents with impressive connections and client lists, and then contacting them?

That, or go to websites like QueryTracker, AgentQuery, and ManuscriptWishList and look for agents who rep books similar to yours or have expressed interest in books like yours. That's not social media ability--that's doing research.

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There are lots of ways to find an agent, and social skills are not required. Read the acknowledgments page on some of your favorite books in your genre, most authors thank their agents. As Marisa said, all agents are not editorial. My agent is, but I was never forced to make the changes she suggested. We are all protective over our stories, but your agent wants your story to be the best it can be. They don't get paid unless they sell your book, so it's in their best interest to help it succeed!

efreysson said:

Well, a part of my zero marketing ability is my zero social media ability. Do you think I'll get anywhere by just Googling "horror fantasy literary agent", combing through the results for agents with impressive connections and client lists, and then contacting them?

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I'm not especially sociable either, and the way I do agent research is to start with agencies and make a list of possible agents and very basic interests/guidelines. There are a lot of lists and blogs, even Wikipedia has a few lists of agencies though you want to be careful to vet every agent's sales records and such. You could even start in AW's index in Bewares and Background Checks, which is also probably the first port of call for vetting an agent or agency. Most of the big agencies have threads. There are loads of agents for fantasy, dark fantasy, and the like--your challenge is more one of selection and then patience.

There's always the tried-and-true method of finding comparable titles and figuring out who repped them, either in the acknowledgements or, if the info's not there (it's not, always), by Googling the author. I find this works better for prioritizing who I want to query and personalizing a query, though.

I only check agents on social media fairly cursorily, although you can find a lot of agents by searching hashtags on Twitter like #mswl and the various pitch hashtags. Be aware that social media brings out all kinds, and some agents aren't on it at all. Always check an agent's history.

Once I have the basic list, I'll do a general Google of "[agent name] + literary agent" or some such looking for interviews and other quirks so I can make sure to format the query correctly and take note of any specific interests (maybe they've recently requested something similar to what I have). I usually end up finding an agent's Twitter profile at this stage, and scroll through it a bit to see if they've answered query questions. Sometimes gives you an idea of who they rep, too. Then I'll Google "sold by [agent name] at" to pull up Publisher's Marketplace records for an agent, looking primarily for sales to Big 5 houses in the last couple of years.

efreysson said:

Obviously I would like to get the biggest representation possible, but I feel safe in assuming the big ones give an author less editorial freedom.

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I've found that the opposite is the case.

Bigger, better publishers usually employ better editors, who know their job too well to try to impose their preferences upon the writers they sign.

Before you sign with anyone, talk to them about your work. Find out what their editorial vision is, for your work. Make sure you agree on this. Then all should be well but remember: it's your name on the work, so you get to agree with or refute all editorial advice.

If you've been asked to provide the first five pages, copy the first five pages as they appear in your ms and paste them into your email. I wouldn't worry too much about double line spacing: just add an extra space between each para so it's easier to read.

A synopsis should outline all of the major plot, and yes, it should include the ending of the book. There are a lot of online guides: I aim for one or two pages, single-spaced. Present tense. It's fine to add drama here and there, if you have room, but mostly you want it to show that you've constructed a coherent, interesting story. Synopses are almost always a bit dry and dull, and I never like them: but they are useful tools.

efreysson said:

And what do you mean about goals? I just want my stuff published by someone who actually knows how to do it.

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I really hate to give out this advice since it goes against every force in my known universe, but you are the perfect candidate for vanity publishing. Though I suspect this statement you make is incorrect, since you implied earlier that you're not concerned as much about getting published as you are about getting marketed. Otherwise you'd just publish on Amazon and not worry about sales.

If you only had a few posts here, I'd suspect you were trolling, but you didn't get 1,500 posts in over a decade as a troll. What I really suspect is that you're depressed about your experience, know exactly what to do and need us to give you a swift kick in the pants to get you back to writing. My fee for that is five bucks.

Jeff

About the difference between UK and US agents: from what I've seen, the Brits usually want a cover letter, the first three chapters and a synopsis. (The majority I've seen want one to two pages single spaced outlining the whole plot, ending included. It needs to be logical and show the arc of the central plot. You will have no room for all the characters or all the subplots on one page, obviously.)

I think a short, simple US-type query letter will work just fine as a cover letter for the Brits as well. You need to check individual agents' websites to see if they have more specific demands.

A good place to research agents is the online magazine The Bookseller, the British equivalent of the American Publisers Weekly. They have a rights reports section where you can see who sells what to whom. I wouldn't trust google only – you won't know if the ones who show up are good or bad or clueless, or even legitimate. Scammers abound…

You can learn to write a good query letter. Finally, after a year of submitting to agents and publishers, my query letters are getting favorable responses. Now, if I can just get an agent or publisher to take the next step and ask for more than a partial submission.

Jeanne

Something I'm doing to help generate agent and publisher interest is participating in pitch contests or pitch wars. Most of them are on Twitter. It's forcing me to practice writing "elevator" pitches. The first time I entered a pitch contest, I didn't generate any interest at all. The second one I entered brought me two publishers who were interested. The third one brought me two publishers and an agent who were interested, and the one I just entered brought me two more publishers. I'm now waiting on replies from all of them except for one publisher who turned out to be a vanity press. I did not reply to that one.

Jeanne

Some thoughts for you, OP.

Try British agents first. A cover letter is easier to write adn British agents almost always read pages first. Louise Buckley is currently open to queries (she isn't usually) and so is Juliet Mushens. Other than that, if you need a list of British agents, let me know and I can pass along my Excel spreadsheet for you. That said--I did use my query letter for British agents this time around, because it was better than my elevator pitch.

Sociability doesn't have to be an issue. Was it you who said you're autistic, or was that another writer trying to move from self-pub? If not you, my apologies. Either way, I'm autistic and not a very good verbal communicator; I found The Call tough to do (especially since it had to be over Skype) and I may have actually needed a drink afterwards >.> But agents are used to reclusive writers and the one I was talking to is very familiar with people on the spectrum, so they were kind about it. I think most agents will not to be total douchebags about this kind of thing (they'd lose clients, otherwise).

Building off that, an agent can do a lot for you. Help you promote, contact people for you, be aggressive and organised for you, etc. Things that a reclusive writer type person finds tough. They are usually good if you can get them, though of course it's worth noting that bad agents exist, and bad agents are worse than none at all. Plus the odds, in general, are fairly brutal. Once you cut out the ones who really only take YA, who don't take epic fa, who are closed, etc., there are about 50 or 60 sff agents worth querying for epic fantasy. Rough estimate.


Subbing to small presses or even bigger ones can work but it is a long, slow toil. Subbing to somewhere like Tor likely means languishing for years in the "maybe" pile (assuming you make it out of the initial slush pit) because priority is given to agented authors. Edge are good, but epic fa will put you over their strict wordcount. Baen are active slush readers, but be prepared to wait 9 months to find out whether you've made first cut.


Pitchwars could be an event which helps you. In Pitchwars you try to attract a "mentor" (agented author or industry professional) who works with you on your MS, and helps you write a pitch/query to attract an agent. There's a special event at the end where mentors pitch their mentee's stuff to participating agent. There's also a fair amount of Pitchwar mentors this year so hopefully your odds would be better than the year I participated in.

If anyone has never been to querytracker take a look. It's an excellent everything agents site that is updated regularly. You can search for agents that rep your genre, find out how to submit to and contact an agent, learn about their response timeline, and read their wish lists. You can even create you own personal query tracker to keep on top of things.


https://querytracker.net/literary_agents.php