After you've finished writing your novel - advice for UK children's writers

Matt Walker

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Consider how your story sounds out loud, especially if you've written a picture book parents are going to read to their children. There are programs that do this - read text out loud. Else you could get someone to read it to you or record yourself reading it and listen to it back.

Obviously, grammar and spelling need to be perfect before you send it off, which is why it's a good idea to put the manuscript aside for a few weeks (I usually wait 5 or 6); it's amazing how many errors you can find on re-reading with fresh eyes.

Few reputable publishers accept unsolicited submissions anymore, but there are a few medium sized traditional publishers that do, with Andersen Press probably being the best. I made a blog post listing them here: http://www.walkerproductions.co.uk/...-publishers-accepting-unsolicited-submissions

So going the agent route is probably best to start with. They will sell your MS to the best publisher in return for 15% commission. Every writer should have a copy of the current Writers' and Artists' Yearbook, which lists who does what in UK publishing.

Make sure you research any prospective agents thoroughly online before submitting anything. Does their website look professional? Have they successfully sold books in your genre? Most are members of the Association of Authors' Agents, although some reputable agencies are not. Just have a look at what they've sold. Then decide who to send the MS to. The larger agencies have many agents working for them, so you should read their profiles and select the best fit and address your submission to them. Always follow their submission guidelines. Most are either email or form submissions, which is handy (although I have had a few subs and replies lost in the ether from time to time). Usually they ask for the full MS for picture books, either as a Word or PDF file (be aware that formatting may be lost if they have a different version of Word to you). For longer works the first three chapters and a synopsis is usually requested. The synopsis is not a blurb or teaser, but a concise summary of the main plot, including the ending. Try to get it onto one page of A4. Everything, including the synopsis, should be double spaced (select all and press ctrl +2), 12 point Times New Roman, no space between paragraphs unless starting a new section. In other words, the complete opposite of how I've formatted this blog post.

Put your address and contact details, the title, your name and the word count on the title page. Make sure you number the pages. Attach the file(s)to a cover email which introduces you and your work.

Dear [agent's name],

Please find attached my picture book/novel, TITLE IN CAPS (word count). [Short summary of the novel, no more than three sentences, then a little about yourself].

Don't say your daughter and her classmates loved it. Don't say the agent will be missing out on loads of money if they turn it down. Don't say it could be a movie and you will write the script.

Select about a dozen agents and submit to them simultaneously. That is a perfectly standard thing to do, unless they specifically say they only accept exclusive submissions. Do not CC them all in to the same email though!

Expect to wait between 1 and 3 months, and if you haven't heard back send a polite email enquiring whether they received your submission OK.

Everyone gets rejection. Don't let it bother you. They are almost always form rejections that say about how your work is not quite right for their list. But if they take the time to write you a personal rejection treat it like gold dust and treasure it.

If you run out of agents, try the publishers listed on my blog. Then you may want to look at self-publishing (note: use a Print-On-Demand company like KDP or Lulu.com where there are no set-up fees. You do not want to be paying vanity publishers thousands of pounds for them to dump 100 books on your doorstep). That's the main thing you need to keep in mind: "money should flow towards the author, not the other way round". You do not want to be paying publishers or agents anything apart from commission and 'expenses' like photocopying and proof copies. Publishers make their money by selling books. Agents make their money on commission from selling books. Do not hand over any money unless they have sold something.
 
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Old Hack

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Consider how your story sounds out loud, especially if you've written a picture book parents are going to read to their children. There are programs that do this - read text out loud. Else you could get someone to read it to you or record yourself reading it and listen to it back.

It's much better to get a person to read your book aloud, as the programs which are available don't sound very good.

Obviously, grammar and spelling need to be perfect before you send it off, which is why it's a good idea to put the manuscript aside for a few weeks (I usually wait 5 or 6); it's amazing how many errors you can find on re-reading with fresh eyes.

Few reputable publishers accept unsolicited submissions anymore, but there are a few medium sized traditional publishers that do, with Andersen Press probably being the best. I made a blog post listing them here: http://www.walkerproductions.co.uk/...-publishers-accepting-unsolicited-submissions

Andersen Press might be good publishers for picture books, but they're not going to be any good for non-fiction writers, or novelists, for example. Horses for courses, and all that.

So going the agent route is probably best to start with. They will sell your MS to the best publisher in return for 15% commission. Every writer should have a copy of the current Writers' and Artists' Yearbook, which lists who does what in UK publishing.

The W&AYB is out of date before it even goes to print; it's not an exhaustive list of agents or publishers; and it does no screening of the places and people it lists, which means that scam agents and vanity presses are included. Be careful if you rely on it.

Make sure you research any prospective agents thoroughly online before submitting anything. Does their website look professional? Have they successfully sold books in your genre? Most are members of the Association of Authors' Agents, although some reputable agencies are not. Just have a look at what they've sold. Then decide who to send the MS to. The larger agencies have many agents working for them, so you should read their profiles and select the best fit and address your submission to them. Always follow their submission guidelines. Most are either email or form submissions, which is handy (although I have had a few subs and replies lost in the ether from time to time). Usually they ask for the full MS for picture books, either as a Word or PDF file (be aware that formatting may be lost if they have a different version of Word to you). For longer works the first three chapters and a synopsis is usually requested. The synopsis is not a blurb or teaser, but a concise summary of the main plot, including the ending. Try to get it onto one page of A4. Everything, including the synopsis, should be double spaced (select all and press ctrl +2), 12 point Times New Roman, no space between paragraphs unless starting a new section. In other words, the complete opposite of how I've formatted this blog post.

I'm not aware of any editors or agents who request PDFs, and advise against using them unless specifically requested. Synopses are almost always fine if they run to two pages.

Put your address and contact details, the title, your name and the word count on the title page. Make sure you number the pages. Attach the file(s)to a cover email which introduces you and your work.

Dear [agent's name],

Please find attached my picture book/novel, TITLE IN CAPS (word count). [Short summary of the novel, no more than three sentences, then a little about yourself].

Don't say your daughter and her classmates loved it. Don't say the agent will be missing out on loads of money if they turn it down. Don't say it could be a movie and you will write the script.

Select about a dozen agents and submit to them simultaneously. That is a perfectly standard thing to do, unless they specifically say they only accept exclusive submissions. Do not CC them all in to the same email though!

Expect to wait between 1 and 3 months, and if you haven't heard back send a polite email enquiring whether they received your submission OK.

Don't chase anything until three months have passed, unless specifically instructed to by the agent's submissions guidelines.

Everyone gets rejection. Don't let it bother you. They are almost always form rejections that say about how your work is not quite right for their list. But if they take the time to write you a personal rejection treat it like gold dust and treasure it.

If you run out of agents, try the publishers listed on my blog.

But only if they publish the sort of books you write.

Then you may want to look at self-publishing (note: use a Print-On-Demand company like KDP or Lulu.com where there are no set-up fees. You do not want to be paying vanity publishers thousands of pounds for them to dump 100 books on your doorstep). That's the main thing you need to keep in mind: "money should flow towards the author, not the other way round". You do not want to be paying publishers or agents anything apart from commission and 'expenses' like photocopying and proof copies. Publishers make their money by selling books. Agents make their money on commission from selling books. Do not hand over any money unless they have sold something.

Self publishing isn't something you should do if you can't find an agent or publisher. It's something you should do because you want to self publish. It takes a tonne of hard work to do well.
 

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Question as I prepare for a semi-open submission ('first fifty pages'):

Science fiction, small press -

They don't specify if there should be page breaks between chapters. By default i include page breaks at the end of my chapters. Most of my chapters just happen to end near the bottom of the page, so it's more or less moot, but one chapter doesn't and i lose one page worth as a result. Plus, the publisher/editor might mistakenly think the submission ends at the page of white space unless they scroll.

So, publishers may prefer no page breaks (IDK... ???), and I could squeeze in more words if I don't use them. But aesthetically I do prefer them and the extra words won't make or break the submission.

TL;DR

Should sent pages include page breaks between chapters?
 
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Old Hack

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I'd keep it as it is, with the page breaks where they should be. If you're sending in fifty pages, one page more or less won't make or break your submission's chances.
 

Woollybear

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Thanks. I think I'm going to submit this now.
 

Matt Walker

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Old Hack, I agree with your points, except the whole "self publish if you want to self publish" mantra that writers seem to pedal... Let's be clear: self publishing is NOT as good as traditional publishing. It just isn't, and all debut authors should be encouraged to try the traditional route first. The traditional route is overwhelmingly the best way to make a career out of writing. Self publishers on average sell next to nothing. Let's not pretend that it's a viable alternative. The only reason we do it is because a big publisher won't take us. If we had the option between an established press or doing it ourselves? I've even seen a writer gush about how you "get to design your own covers" by self-publishing, as if that's a good thing! There are NO advantages. Just none.
 

Old Hack

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Old Hack, I agree with your points, except the whole "self publish if you want to self publish" mantra that writers seem to pedal... Let's be clear: self publishing is NOT as good as traditional publishing. It just isn't, and all debut authors should be encouraged to try the traditional route first.

Nonsense.

Self publishing can be a brilliant way to get your books out there--for the right writer, and the right books. It's a really hard road to take, though. It's certainly not something to do as a sort of consolation prize if you can't attract an agent.

Also, it's *trade* publishing. Not *traditional*.

The traditional route is overwhelmingly the best way to make a career out of writing. Self publishers on average sell next to nothing. Let's not pretend that it's a viable alternative. The only reason we do it is because a big publisher won't take us. If we had the option between an established press or doing it ourselves? I've even seen a writer gush about how you "get to design your own covers" by self-publishing, as if that's a good thing! There are NO advantages. Just none.

*mod hat on*

We have one rule at AW: it's easy. Respect your fellow writer. You're veering dangerously close to disrespecting our many, many members who have made a brilliant success of self publishing.

By all means discuss the issues writers face when self publishing. That's fine. But do not sneer at it. That's not acceptable. I hope that's clear.
 

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Self publishers on average sell next to nothing.

A large percentage of trade-published books (I've heard 70% bandied about) never earn out their advances. Many authors publish a single book and that's it. Most trade-published authors don't make a living wage at it - just like most self-published authors. If you're writing to get rich, you're probably in the wrong business, no matter how your stuff gets out there.

As for self-publishing - because the advent of digital publishing has made self-pub fairly simple, you're indeed going to get a lot of books that are published before they're ready to go. That doesn't change the fact that there are a lot of gorgeous self-published books out there. It's a different business and a different calculus, but it's perfectly possible to self-publish not just adequately, but really well.
 

Matt Walker

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Apologies if I came across as conceited or 'sneering'. That was not my intention. I've ended up self publishing myself because my novel wasn't sold to a publisher. But the stats don't lie. The average UK traditionally-published writer earns £10,000 per year. Average self publisher earns about £20. The two approaches are not equal, and I think it's more helpful to new writers to be honest about this?
 

DanaeMcB

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Matt, if you want to make your self-publishing journey a success rather than something you regret, may I suggest joining the Facebook group 20booksto50k. They have a ton of info/tips/advice put together by a sizeable group of self-publishing authors who are making a living off their books.
 

Marissa D

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You might consider amending the title of your post to reflect that your suggestions apply to UK writers and submissions. And seconding what Old Hack said--any printed listing of agents will be out of date the moment it hits the shelves. On-line sources are much more up-to-date about individual agents' interests and whether they're even open to queries at any given time.
 

Old Hack

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Apologies if I came across as conceited or 'sneering'. That was not my intention.

Then choose your words more carefully, Matt. We're writers. It counts.

I've ended up self publishing myself because my novel wasn't sold to a publisher. But the stats don't lie. The average UK traditionally-published writer earns £10,000 per year. Average self publisher earns about £20. The two approaches are not equal, and I think it's more helpful to new writers to be honest about this?

As I said earlier, it's trade publishing, not traditional publishing.

Can you cite your sources for those earnings that you give? Because I suspect you're comparing apples and oranges here.

It's not dishonest to say that self publishing can be great for those who fully understand what they're doing, and have the skills to do it well.
 

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Your original post has some solid advice, and I particularly like that you included an example of correct UK-format queries.

Some things I feel were omitted, though:
* Consider where you are writing this post. For most UK writers on AW, the best place to get info on agencies is right here. The Bewares board is vital for up-to-date agency info.
* UK writers can query US agents! And lots of us find success that way. Plenty of AW Brits have US agents.
* What age group of kidlit writers are you targeting this post at?
* Most kidlit and YA is a bad gamble in the self-publishing world, because a lot of key UK markets for young readers (bookstores, schools) struggle to keep in stock of self-pubbed titles. Also a lot of UK kidlit writers get their income from public speaking, in schools/literary festivals/workshops/by running courses. Trade publishing (or massively successful self-publishing sales) is a key part of getting these gigs.


While I appreciate general advice posts, I'm always interested to hear where the writer is coming from. You don't include much details on your personal circumstances, and because you're taking that wider approach rather than "this is my experience" it gives your advice a 'one true rule' feeling that feels restrictive.

For example, what makes Anderson Press the best? I'd say Bloomsbury has a stronger reputation, and Hot Key have by far the fastest response times. What's your criteria there, and your source?

Why do you consider agent expenses for photocopying to be valid? Personally, I think it's outdated as heck and unnecessary in most contracts, and can be an amber warning for an agency that hasn't updated its processes.

Apologies if I came across as conceited or 'sneering'. That was not my intention. I've ended up self publishing myself because my novel wasn't sold to a publisher. But the stats don't lie. The average UK traditionally-published writer earns £10,000 per year. Average self publisher earns about £20. The two approaches are not equal, and I think it's more helpful to new writers to be honest about this?

I'm also curious about the source for this. Trade published writers in the UK earn on average £12,500 a year in May 2015, as evidenced by a study done by the EC with heavy involvement from the wonderful UK group Society of Authors.

Low-selling self-publishers make on average $250 a year according to a May 2016 report, which is a fair bit higher than £20. Also, you really have to factor in that self-publishing has far less of a barrier. The Society of Authors only allows authors to join who meet certain baselines, but self-publishing surveys don't generally have any barriers to separate writers who would class themselves as hobbyists from writers who consider themselves pros.

Data Guy also has a fantastic self-pub figures break down month-by-month, but it doesn't include an average income unfortunately.
 
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cornflake

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Also, not for nothing, but the title of this thread refers to writers of works for children, and I'd guess the numbers are very different there, as self-pub is a different animal w/re kidlit. Not that trade isn't its own thing in terms of kidlit as well, but there're specific issues with kidlit and self-pub...
 

novicewriter

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...Also, it's *trade* publishing. Not *traditional*...

Is it? It was very confusing for me to figure out which term was correct, because I've come across several writers with agents on Twitter and on internet blogs using "traditional publishing," rather than "trade publishing," and no one complained or corrected them.

For example, this person says she's been in the business for 20 years, including as a columnist with Publishers Weekly.
She uses "traditional publishing" in this page of her blog.
https://www.janefriedman.com/land-agent-self-published-book/

And although "trade publishing" has currently around 446,000,000 search results, "traditional publishing" still has a lot, about a third of that, around 178,000,000.

Also, when I looked up how often people searched Google for "trade publishing," versus "traditional publishing," in the U.S. over the past year, only "traditional publishing" returned results. It told me, when I first searched "trade publishing" that it didn't have "enough results." But, when I searched for "worldwide" results, both terms were relatively searched in about equal amounts.

U.S. comparison results
https://trends.google.com/trends/explore?geo=US&q=trade publishing,traditional publishing


Worldwide comparison results
https://trends.google.com/trends/explore?q=trade publishing,traditional publishing

According to these results, it seems as though "trade publishing" is used more around the world than in the U.S., perhaps something similar that's occurred throughout history, when English words fall in and out of use, over time, where "trade" is the original term that was used, and "traditional" has started becoming a more popular term to use, (similar to how today's current slang words were added to the official Webster's dictionary, even though they used to not be considered "correct, proper English" or when different slang words were used, decades ago).

For example, this site, uses both terms.
https://www.thecreativepenn.com/self-publishing-vs-traditional/

I don't understand why both terms can't be used.
 
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Bufty

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I believe 'traditional publishers' was the phrase dreamed up by vanity publishers to give victims the impression they were genuine 'trade publishers'.
 

cornflake

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Google results aren't indicative of anything at all besides... Google results.

Calling it 'traditional' was meant, by some sectors of self-publishers and, as Bufty notes, vanity presses, to give the impression that trade publishing was somehow old-school, and the new and exciting front was in epub.
 

Old Hack

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Is it? It was very confusing for me to figure out which term was correct, because I've come across several writers with agents on Twitter and on internet blogs using "traditional publishing," rather than "trade publishing," and no one complained or corrected them.

If you were an aspiring writer hoping to be noticed (in a positive way) by an agent would you correct their Twitter terminology?


For example, this person says she's been in the business for 20 years, including as a columnist with Publishers Weekly.
She uses "traditional publishing" in this page of her blog.
https://www.janefriedman.com/land-agent-self-published-book/

The person you refer to has a very obvious agenda, and it's not in favour of trade publishing. Be careful who you quote.

People who work in trade publishing refer to it as trade publishing.

"Traditional publishing" is a bastard term which was created by vanity publishers, and by self publishing evangelists.

And although "trade publishing" has currently around 446,000,000 search results, "traditional publishing" still has a lot, about a third of that, around 178,000,000.

Also, when I looked up how often people searched Google for "trade publishing," versus "traditional publishing," in the U.S. over the past year, only "traditional publishing" returned results. It told me, when I first searched "trade publishing" that it didn't have "enough results." But, when I searched for "worldwide" results, both terms were relatively searched in about equal amounts.

U.S. comparison results
https://trends.google.com/trends/explore?geo=US&q=trade publishing,traditional publishing


Worldwide comparison results
https://trends.google.com/trends/explore?q=trade publishing,traditional publishing

According to these results, it seems as though "trade publishing" is used more around the world than in the U.S., perhaps something similar that's occurred throughout history, when English words fall in and out of use, over time, where "trade" is the original term that was used, and "traditional" has started becoming a more popular term to use, (similar to how today's current slang words were added to the official Webster's dictionary, even though they used to not be considered "correct, proper English" or when different slang words were used, decades ago).

For example, this site, uses both terms.
https://www.thecreativepenn.com/self-publishing-vs-traditional/

I don't understand why both terms can't be used.

If I put the name of my (very distinctive, historical, significant) house into Google it comes up with all sorts. Very few of the results refer to my house. Very few of the results are written by people who even know about my house.
 

lizmonster

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I too see a lot of "real" people (authors and agents) using "traditional" when they mean "trade", but it's still the wrong word. Trade publishing simply refers to the book trade: the writer/publisher/bookstore loop. (Agents fit in there, too, although there are publishers that don't require them.)

Vanity and self publishing are both venerable, well-established methodologies, and are just as traditional from that standpoint.

I was corrected myself here on AW some time ago, and I've since become pretty pedantic. "Traditional" may be in common use, but the word doesn't mean the same thing, and it annoys my inner grammar critic. :)