time travel stories and the issue of plot holes and paradoxes

RKen1 · May 29, 2018

Was just curious to see if anyone has experience writing a story with a strong time travel element, or just has thoughts on the subject, and specifically as relates to this:-

I'm underway on a new YA WIP but today discovered a whole lot of negative online opinion.. Example: "I hate time travel as a device in fiction. It generates paradoxes and plot holes that are virtually unresolvable..."

Yes. My discovery today is it seems plenty of people have a very hard time liking time travel stories, films, etc, what with all the supposed irregularities and glaring problems that are inherent (apparently) in almost in neary all time travel examples. And today I found plenty of scorn directed towards a large range of popular and succesful literature and films such as, variously, The Time Machine, The Matrix, The Time Traveller's Wife, Back To The Future, Harry Potter series, Dr. Who, 12 Monkeys, et al.

Plus also, when it wasn't a derisory attitude being pointed towards this sub-genre, I found it bafflingly complex in terms of how people say you should approach writing this, specially when citing physics, quantum physics, and even 'Infinitive Universe Theory'... seriously.

I mean, I appreciate you have to take care of the internal logic here re how the time travel component works, but I didn't see this as such a massive problem area. First and foremost I'm attracted to the basic idea of the time travel aspect and how it can really fire the imagination, and how there is often a certain sense of fun and style. And taking some of the above examples as an illustration, I've personally never paid much thought to plot hole/paradox considerations - (... but if so-and-so went back in time they'd be changing history that has already been set in that universe... Or, if you go back in history you become part of the events that formed the past...) - no, I've just fallen under the spell of whatever it was and very largely ignored any fixating on these glitches or whatever.

Anyhow, I'm now bound to ask the question: am I being naive in not appreciating the depth of this issue?

Would love to hear from people with thoughts on this subject. Many thanks in advance to anyone who may wish to share their views.

Best wishes

Rohan

pingle · May 29, 2018

Oh I really enjoy a bit of time travel

I think if you look for scorn you'll find it. I read really cutting things about the genres I write, and am perplexed about some genres myself (though try to not be openly mean about it, ha).
The examples you give are hugely successful so plenty of people do fall under the spell as you have.

I suppose if you're hoping to be published it makes sense to know if time travel is out of vogue. I don't know the answer to that, sorry,

Dennis E. Taylor · May 29, 2018

There are also people who hate FTL, FTL communications, anti-gravity, artificial gravity, interplanetary trade, interplanetary war, multiverses, post-apocalyptic stories, etc etc etc etc barf.

If you have a good idea and can pull it off, write it. You aren't writing for the people who hate the idea, you're writing for the people who like it. I personally love time-travel stories, as long as they are well thought out and have good twists.

JFitchett92 · May 29, 2018

I can almost guarantee that if a story has time travel in it, I will read it. My favourite novel is Stephen King's 11/22/63 which is entirely focussed on time travel and it pulls it off superbly.

I say ignore the haters and go for it. As long as the plot holes aren't glaringly obvious, I'm sure you can write an intriguing and captivating story with a time travel element. My only advice would be to spice it up and do something unusual with it and really make it your own.

screenscope · May 29, 2018

Lots of readers love time travel, so if you have a good idea, don't let negative people put you off.

It's a tricky genre to write, because it feels like every solution creates a new set of problems, but it's fun solving all the puzzles and I think readers share this fun when you creatively address the issues that pop into their heads.

Brightdreamer · May 29, 2018

As others have said, haters gonna hate...

Time travel's popular for a reason. So if you have an idea for one, don't let the haters scare you off. The key to a good time travel story, IMHO, is internal consistency. Create the rules for your version, and work within them.

Will Collins · May 29, 2018

I love time travel but it has to be the hardest thing to plot out without making a mistake. That said, go for it. A great book is a great book.

cornflake · May 29, 2018

Brightdreamer said:
As others have said, haters gonna hate...

Time travel's popular for a reason. So if you have an idea for one, don't let the haters scare you off. The key to a good time travel story, IMHO, is internal consistency. Create the rules for your version, and work within them.

This.

There will be critics no matter what, but that doesn't mean that some stuff won't garner more criticism than others, and that some criticism isn't wholly justified.

If your plot has internal logic though, you'll generally be good. I hate stuff that makes no logical sense within its own world, or within the bounds of basic logic, but if it can work within the basics of logic and basics of time travel as we theorize it in the general then yay.

RKen1 · May 30, 2018

Thank you for those responses everybody. I'm hearing the positive message loud and clear.

JFitchett92 - I intend to get hold of a copy of S. King's 11/22/63.

SciSarahTops · May 30, 2018

Time travel? Count me in... I'm there!/Will be there!/Was there!

Emermouse · May 30, 2018

The amount of planning and thought needed for a time travel plot, intimidates the hell out of me, but I’m not going to stop anyone from trying it. Good luck and Godspeed, fearless writer!

Regarding time travel and paradoxes, you could use another theory where if you time travel to the past, any changes you purposefully or accidentally make, simply creates a new alternate time line based on said changes. In that version of time travel, there are no paradoxes. If you were to do the old Grandfather paradox, where you go back in time and kill your granddad, under that theory, what happens is that your actions simply create a new timeline where you were never born, because your grandfather died.

Think of all these timelines as like a tree, the branches spreading in all directions, their look and appearance shaped by outside factors like, say, exposure to the elements. Despite sharing a similar origin and appearance, there would be subtle differences in the appearances of the branches based on almost innumerable factors.

RKen1 · May 31, 2018

SciSarahTops said:
Time travel? Count me in... I'm there!/Will be there!/Was there!

That made me smile.

RKen1 · May 31, 2018

Emermouse said:
The amount of planning and thought needed for a time travel plot, intimidates the hell out of me, but I’m not going to stop anyone from trying it. Good luck and Godspeed, fearless writer!

Regarding time travel and paradoxes, you could use another theory where if you time travel to the past, any changes you purposefully or accidentally make, simply creates a new alternate time line based on said changes. In that version of time travel, there are no paradoxes. If you were to do the old Grandfather paradox, where you go back in time and kill your granddad, under that theory, what happens is that your actions simply create a new timeline where you were never born, because your grandfather died.

Think of all these timelines as like a tree, the branches spreading in all directions, their look and appearance shaped by outside factors like, say, exposure to the elements. Despite sharing a similar origin and appearance, there would be subtle differences in the appearances of the branches based on almost innumerable factors.

Thanks Emermouse. You are addressing exactly the kind of area I was referring to - I've read a heck of a lot of complex debates between people on what might work. Anyhow, yes, the alternate timeline... hmmm...

neandermagnon · Jun 10, 2018

I like plenty of fiction and TV that includes time travel. Some people don't like it, same as anything else. It's definitely not a universal opinion.

Paradoxes are paradoxes by definition. The top theoretical physicists can't resolve them, or say how they would play out in reality people ever develop a way for people to travel in time. I wouldn't expect writers to solve them in fiction. Probably the best advice is to not set up stories in such a way that any paradoxes become glaringly obvious. Like don't have your character accidentally kill his or her grandparents. Though if the plot's based around a paradox and you can make it work, that's fine too.

I'm greatly put off by stories that pretend that scientifically impossible or implausible things are real science, but if it starts on a level where these things are just accepted as possible - like magic in Harry Potter, or Time Lord technology in Dr Who - I'm totally fine with it.

One story I'm writing, aimed at the 8-11 age group, involves two girls who accidentally stumble upon a wormhole and a theoretical physicist from the 1980s at their local library, and have all sorts of shenanigans involving, but not limited to, time travel. This was because I read somewhere that there aren't enough STEM books aimed at girls. The theoretical physicist in it is female too. Both my daughters are into STEM and one of them has a t-shirt that says "forget princess, I want to be an astronaut". So I figured I ought to have a go at writing a STEM book aimed at girls.

Pterofan · Jun 10, 2018

For an example of a successful closed time loop, not to mention a neat time travel plot twist, see the original Terminator.

Emermouse · Jun 10, 2018

Well, if you're like me and learning goes down easier when you have pictures to help you out, this website has an infographic, showing the various theories regarding fictional time travel.

Me, I'm still on team "Alternate Timelines." Like I said, no headache-inducing paradoxes.

Brechin Frost · Jun 10, 2018

I love time travel in books, on tv, in movies-- give me all of it!

I have a fair bit of experience with quantum mechanics and can say that a comprehensive understanding of the field isn't necessary to write time travel.

It's more important to establish a coherent and consistent logic.

Doctor Who for instance says that minor paradoxes resolve themselves and that larger ones like crossing one's own timeline causes often unreconcilable issues and/or timeline collapse.

Dan Harmon's History show Great Minds with Dan Harmon avoids paradoxes apparent in Bill and Ted's Excellent Adventure's pulling notable historical figures by introducing cloning, in which Dan's machine pulls copies of historical figures from their timeline, leaving the prime timeline unaltered.

With time travel it's important to do a lot of planning. Try drawing out a diagram that clearly shows the path your characters will take. Or you can introduce a device like Dan Harmon's to avoid paradox. I think you'll be fine.

Also, I'm a big fan of alternate timelines.

gduber · Jun 13, 2018

I love time-travel stuff, although I've never tried to write it. The funnest thing about it to me is all the different interpretations of the act of time-travel that people come up with. Time travel is a hypothetical (theoretical?) concept. Nobody has done it (to my knowledge) so nobody can say anything definitive about it. And so what if they could? What if time-travel was common and we knew everything about it? The wonderful thing about fiction is that it takes you out of the real. Good science and well-formed theories are fine, but they shouldn't get in the way of fiction. Good science is wonderful. Good fiction is wonderful. For a creative writer, fiction should come first, science should come second. I'd try to avoid plot holes, but I wound't let it what people might think about my time-travel 'science' get in the way of my having fun with it.

time travel stories and the issue of plot holes and paradoxes

RKen1

pingle

Dennis E. Taylor

Get it off! It burns!

JFitchett92

screenscope

Brightdreamer

Just Another Lazy Perfectionist

Will Collins

Will Collins

cornflake

practical experience, FTW

RKen1

SciSarahTops

late cretaceous

Emermouse

RKen1

RKen1

neandermagnon

Nolite timere, consilium callidum habeo!

Pterofan

Trust me, I'm a writer

Emermouse

Brechin Frost

gduber