Consider the following element of a SFF story

Amiotto11

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I didn't want to commit to the task of creating spoken languages for this book im writing, yet i still needed something to enable the mechanics for magic to work. So i decided to go with a sign language as the primary means of utilizing magical energies. This simplifies writing the language as entire commands can be simplified into a single symbol. Does this seem like a copout solution or does it seem legit? Obviously reading the book and getting context for the system would help, but at first glance what do we think? The book is already 95% done so I can answer any related questions for clarity. Thanks.
 

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Do you mean your magic is runic in nature (not necessarily Viking-esque runes, but just tied to the symbols) or do you mean you're creating symbols to represent the mystic language itself?

Personally, I generally say something like "He muttered in an indecipherable language and a small light appeared at the end of his wand, illuminating the room," or something like that. I'm not MAR Barker or JRR Tolkein, so I really don't feel the need to create a conlang for any of my books.
 

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I'm not sure if you mean they draw out the symbols with their hands or if you mean make a sign like you would in actual sign language but I don't think either would be a cop out if explained and used consistently. I've certainly read books where movements of hands are what triggers /controls magic before.
 

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I didn't want to commit to the task of creating spoken languages for this book im writing, yet i still needed something to enable the mechanics for magic to work. So i decided to go with a sign language as the primary means of utilizing magical energies. This simplifies writing the language as entire commands can be simplified into a single symbol. Does this seem like a copout solution or does it seem legit? Obviously reading the book and getting context for the system would help, but at first glance what do we think? The book is already 95% done so I can answer any related questions for clarity. Thanks.

We think you don't speak sign language, as it sounds like you're not making a sign language, but some gestural cues for a very specific situation. Please, do NOT call this a sign language. They don't work like that, at all.
 

benbenberi

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Gestures are a major component of the magic used in Lev Grossman's The Magicians and its sequels. (To the point, IIRC, that a character who loses his hands loses his previous gesture-dependent magical skills.) Characters spend a lot of time practicing the moves.
 

the.real.gwen.simon

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First of all, cornflake is right, you're not using ASL, and it's sorta rude to say it like that. Harlequin is also right, 'somatic' is probably the best word to use.

To actually answer the question, it sounds like you're making more work for yourself. If it's a whole system, you're going to have to distinguish between different spells, and different magical schools, using descriptions of body language and movement. Maybe casting a fire ball means moving my left hand from my left shoulder to my right shoulder, then moving my left hand quickly down my right arm and then, in a fluid motion, gesturing at my target. That's a lot more words than 'Alakazam!'. And since my enemy will have to counter my fire ball, his ice shield might need to touch both hands to the ground, then put his right hand on top of his left and spin around with his hands still on the ground. We're taking up a lot of ground describing the fight, so you need to be really sure you're ready to not only do this, but keep a detailed record of how to cast every single spell. And you need to know what types of gestures categorize each different type of magical casting: My fire mage is using her left hand and my ice mage is using his right, is that what divides their magical schools? Is the spinning a gesture common to defensive spells, and her fire shield would also involve spinning? Or is it something else, do defensive spells need you to be hunched down like he is, and all offensive magic requires you standing straight on both feet?

I'm not saying that a physically based casting system isn't a cool idea, it totally is and it totally opens up avenues into how to stop an enemy caster and how to hide the fact that you're casting a spell and what about dance or sports, how do those physical activities affect spell casting, because all of that is super neat. I'm saying that doing it to get out of making up a dozen words for magic spells is cheap, and it won't pay off if that's the only reason for doing it. You'll need to make a language either way, it's just the kind you want to create.

So either really commit to a cool idea, or find a way to make the more traditional route work for you. (I recommend Holly Lisle's "Create-A-Language Clinic", if it's just that making up words intimidates you.)
 

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Wow lots of responses to go through good stuff. So let me just be clear, I wasnt trying to step on any toes by calling it a sign language. My apologies for the incorrect definition, though I wasnt sure what else to call it. So also to clarify things a bit my thought is that basically magic is controlled with your hands. By forming your hands into specific shapes a spell is formed, and depending on the type of spell it is either aimed by the direction your line of sight is pointed or it will be directed by the direction your hands are pointing. To take the example above, the fireball spell, one must lead off with the open symbol (this is the first hand symbol to initialize the use of magic), then they would form the fire symbol, then a contain sign to build the thermal energy up above their palm. Finally when the fireball has reached the desired volume and temperature they would launch it with a release symbol most likely being aimed by hand. Or say one wished to unlock a door...they would simply sign out: open, unlock while pointing their hands or eyesight at the locking mechanism. Also for complete clarity sake the cost of using magic in this world is willpower. For the duration the spell is active it will exert a heavy toll on the users willpower. A way to measure this is by imagining you has to resist scratching a mesquito bite. In this world if your willpower fails you immediately die. Thanks for the advice abd replies everyone. P.s. I cannot explain the initial open symbol or the reason why one potentially dies while using magic without major plot spoilers.
 

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Something else i just noticed that might not be clear...each symbol one might form with their hands would have an english translation and there is a much smaller number of symbols discovered by the characters in this world than there are words in a fully devoloped spoken language. In this way you could imagine a tome full of hand gestures with its meaning written below it. This would be the wizards "spellbook". At least this is how the language works in my book. On a side note the underlying mechanism for why the language is the way it is will eventually become the core plot element of the story. Sorry for the long reply and thanks for reading it!
 

the.real.gwen.simon

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So, less like a language, and more like a series of gang signs? (The hand is arranged into the sign, and then held stationary so that it may be observed clearly.) Geez. Like, I'm trying to think of a way to describe the blood sign, and I'm at a loss.
 

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Wow lots of responses to go through good stuff. So let me just be clear, I wasnt trying to step on any toes by calling it a sign language. My apologies for the incorrect definition, though I wasnt sure what else to call it. So also to clarify things a bit my thought is that basically magic is controlled with your hands. By forming your hands into specific shapes a spell is formed, and depending on the type of spell it is either aimed by the direction your line of sight is pointed or it will be directed by the direction your hands are pointing. To take the example above, the fireball spell, one must lead off with the open symbol (this is the first hand symbol to initialize the use of magic), then they would form the fire symbol, then a contain sign to build the thermal energy up above their palm. Finally when the fireball has reached the desired volume and temperature they would launch it with a release symbol most likely being aimed by hand. Or say one wished to unlock a door...they would simply sign out: open, unlock while pointing their hands or eyesight at the locking mechanism. Also for complete clarity sake the cost of using magic in this world is willpower. For the duration the spell is active it will exert a heavy toll on the users willpower. A way to measure this is by imagining you has to resist scratching a mesquito bite. In this world if your willpower fails you immediately die. Thanks for the advice abd replies everyone. P.s. I cannot explain the initial open symbol or the reason why one potentially dies while using magic without major plot spoilers.

Something else i just noticed that might not be clear...each symbol one might form with their hands would have an english translation and there is a much smaller number of symbols discovered by the characters in this world than there are words in a fully devoloped spoken language. In this way you could imagine a tome full of hand gestures with its meaning written below it. This would be the wizards "spellbook". At least this is how the language works in my book. On a side note the underlying mechanism for why the language is the way it is will eventually become the core plot element of the story. Sorry for the long reply and thanks for reading it!

Again, so this means it is nothing like a language or like sign language (ASL, BSL, etc.). The reason I am so determined to clarify this is because many people do not understand that sign language (ASL and most others, like BSL, etc.), are fully developed languages, not some form of charades or gestures that just translate to English words strung together.

Sign language has its own grammar, syntax, a sprawling vocabulary, and is not just a way to make signs to translate English words. Some people do use signed English, but that's a specific variant.
 

Amiotto11

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Again, so this means it is nothing like a language or like sign language (ASL, BSL, etc.). The reason I am so determined to clarify this is because many people do not understand that sign language (ASL and most others, like BSL, etc.), are fully developed languages, not some form of charades or gestures that just translate to English words strung together.

Sign language has its own grammar, syntax, a sprawling vocabulary, and is not just a way to make signs to translate English words. Some people do use signed English, but that's a specific variant.

Right, so I guess its really not a language. Thanks for clarifying that. In this case then what should I call it? Also in the text this is how magic is used (for the most part) and in your opinion does it seem workable? If not would you stick by the original reccomendations of developing syntax and whatnot? Thanks again for the advice.
 

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Right, so I guess its really not a language. Thanks for clarifying that. In this case then what should I call it? Also in the text this is how magic is used (for the most part) and in your opinion does it seem workable? If not would you stick by the original reccomendations of developing syntax and whatnot? Thanks again for the advice.

You said you didn't want to get into developing a language.

People use gestures for lots of things; there's no reason people couldn't or wouldn't incorporate gestures with magic. There are particular gestures in, say, ballet, that mean specific things, like, 'no, stay away/you shall not pass' or whatever. They don't, in any way, use sign language in ballet. It's some random gestures that have obvious meanings from the context and universality of the gesture (like the stay away is a big sweeping movement of arms from crossed in front of the person to down). In ASL that might be signed as 'you - go there - can't.'
 

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Research ceremonial magic. Watch some religious ceremonies in video.

Pretty much every religion I can think of incorporates gesture into religion.

There's an entire academic field of gesture studies.
 

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Research ceremonial magic. Watch some religious ceremonies in video.

Pretty much every religion I can think of incorporates gesture into religion.

There's an entire academic field of gesture studies.

There is also a strong gestural component to driving in and around Boston, which also has a heavy element of prayer to it. :gone:
 

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I didn't want to commit to the task of creating spoken languages for this book im writing, yet i still needed something to enable the mechanics for magic to work. So i decided to go with a sign language as the primary means of utilizing magical energies. This simplifies writing the language as entire commands can be simplified into a single symbol. Does this seem like a copout solution or does it seem legit? Obviously reading the book and getting context for the system would help, but at first glance what do we think? The book is already 95% done so I can answer any related questions for clarity. Thanks.

Seems like it could work and be kind of exciting. What first comes to mind are the poses that Japanese sentai groups always make, but I know that's not what you mean.