Planning Out Your Stories

Check out this link:

https://absolutewrite.com/forums/showthread.php?8754-Index-to-Learn-Writing-with-Uncle-Jim

Full of goodies, lots of info, plenty of reading, and so much material you'll need to either be up for 24+ hours or go through in multiple sittings.

Also, if you want plotting, etc., check out the Novels sub-forum; usually lots of plotting stuff in there.

Personally? I have a hybrid method that I go through in no particular order and iterate as many times as needed: Planner, pantser, non-linear, linear, manga, pre-writing, etc.

I was lucky. I had a book I'd rewritten many times over many years, and when I went back to it, learned some better writing chops, and joined here, the book evolved and led into a series.

I always think a good way to think of new ideas is with: What if? You can take inspiration from anywhere, and just say, what if and twist it in some way. Takes a ton of brain power for me to plot everything, but I generally start with the gist, and then my characters take over, but i prefer to be as realistic as possible in the believe-ability-ness of it all.

There's a method out there that I can't think of the name for just now, but it builds on concept after concept. There's also people who do extensive character development which leads to tension and conflicts that spring from their personalities and situations.

The stuff I find the hardest is when I really want something to happen, but my logic brain is all like: But why? or How could they know that? Then I'm pacing across the floor tossing thoughts around, but it can often lead to a great twist, or extreme tension.

I'm ultimately a pantser, and for the last book in my series, I tried doing more of a plotting out. I find when I get to the end, it always needs work, and maybe that's all your story you're unhappy with needs. Take a look at it and think, what if? or why? and maybe those things will inspire a new version you can get excited about.

Writing is rewriting, and I think that's where a first draft starts to get its magic. I'm a long-suffering rewriter, but I just do it. I'm usually happy I did, even when it's a major change.

One last tip . . . when I tried to do a query, trying to focus on the whole "what do they do" and "the stakes," it really pushed me to make the story something I could make sound satisfying in so few words. (did i mention major revisions, LOL!) I never tried that on a short story, but maybe it could work as a loose plot.

Anyway, best of luck!

I basically find a concept that I like (what I want to DO overall with the story. Do I want a dark fantasy thing that JUST happens to have ninjas? Do I want just your standard 80s action fare? And so on) and how to do it, think of characters, then think of a biginning and an end and I go from there, semi-plotting how I'll get from Point A to Point B.

Of course, some other times I plan the heck out of getting from point A to point B. I guess it depends on how interested I am in the concept or overall plot. Sometimes I come up with the characters I want to use first and the setting and concept LATER, but those times are rare and usually involve me listening to A TON of music and hitting some accidental idea or something.

I know its kind of a messy system, but eh, it works for me. Hope it helps!

Nothing wrong with planning at all. Many folk do it. Nothing wrong with not planning. Many folk do that as well.

What do you want to write about? Whatever is upon page 2 usually follows on from what is on page 1, and whatever is on page 3...


The easiest way to start is to simply start. Doesn't matter what you start with - if it's wrong it can be removed later.


The clock in the hall chimed four-o-clock. In the morning. ...


Mary yelled, and jumped back, waving her umbrella as the bus roared past and through the puddle....


George eased the hammer back down and replaced the gun...


The smoke had been thickening and moving closer all morning...


Until you start you won't get anywhere. Make it interesting, and as soon as your character is in a predicament of some sort the story will start to show itself.


And read novels of the type you wish to write.


Good luck with whatever course you choose.

And don't forget the Site Specific Google Custom Search Box at bottom left of this and every page. Type in -Planning my story- or whatever else phrase you choose, and see what happens. Higher the reference number, the more recent the thread.

I think you need to experiment with different planning methods and find a) if planning is right for you and b) what kind of planning works best for you.

I can't really suggest a particular method as I'm not a planner, most of the time I don't know how the story will end until about halfway through writing it. One thing I would say is don't write off that story as going no where. You never know, you might be standing in the shower 6 months from now, thinking about your story and you'll go "what if..." and you will find that missing link and you'll pick it up again. I use that a lot to develop stories "what if".

Good luck with it!

It depends what I'm writing, but often I start at the end. I try to think what is the point of the story and how I want it to end, then I start writing with a goal in mind. I don't know if it will be good or not, but it least it will not be pointless.

Hey Daniel,

Are you familiar with the different structures of stories? Like the three-act structure. I've been reading the book "Writing Deep Scenes" (recommended here by someone a few months ago) and it starts with what the overall shape of a novel-length story can be. Where the emotional turning points might happen, what sorts of scenes lend themselves to different parts of the story.

Even if you don't go with a particular structure, it's interesting to learn them and see that author X used a certain format.

Personally, and I'm not published, (I might need to self-publish), I gravitate toward 'big ideas' that I want to put into a story format. Like the opioid crisis, or the water situation in Flint, or Puerto Rico. I like to pull those ideas apart and see how the different parts of it might be represented by characters. Example: If I wanted to work up a story about an immigration crisis somewhere, I'd have characters that represent each interest in the issue (and then flesh them out into real people). I'd try to identify about six or seven. I start thinking about which of them would undergo the most interesting story arc and think about whether that makes them the best PoV character. (Or maybe I'd wonder about writing in first person). Then jump in with an overall arc outline and individual chapter outlines and start writing scenes.

There is no "perfect" methodology save what works for you. You could try the approach I use. List out a bunch of neat ideas. Organize them into a chapter outline as you develop your characters. Do a first draft that's little more than trash. Do a second draft to carve out the story. A third to work up your characters and settings to a fine polish. A fourth to correct what your beta readers found wrong. That's generally what I do, however keep in mind that you absolutely will tear apart your original outline as your characters and story awaken. So planning will get you started, but only to a point.

And don't throw away that work you did. Years later you might end up using pieces of it again as I found myself doing with one novel.

Good luck!

To answer the prompt: I am unpublished, and I have yet to start writing my first book. This post is my opinion, and may help in some way. I’m going on vacation next month, and I will begin writing my first book after I return and when I feel ready. I am 9½ months into learning, researching, creating databases and lecture notes, and so on, of starting from ground zero. I like to challenge myself, and I want to learn every aspect I can. I built my fictional world into four eras with multiple books (17 in all) each era. I want to learn how to do project management for a series. I took it a step further and bifurcated my concept to two series with one, shared setting. This opens a lot of possibilites, such as: intermingling try-fail cycles, following one series only if the other does not do well, and so forth. Rowling took some seven years to get her first HP book out (started in 1990 and finished book one in 1996, I believe). I created a lot of Word and Excel databases to keep account of my characters (where they left off last, how they felt, and so forth) and facts I need to keep straight. As far as plotting vs. pantsing, it’s a spectrum. Everyone, to some extent, does at least a little of both. I am a huge planner. I would not try to plot everything; it takes away from creative freedom. Quantity (heavy on pantsing) vs. Quality (heavy of plotting). This is not to say pantsed novels cannot be high quality. Brandon Sanderson noted problems with each approach. He said there is a tendency for people who pants most to have strong characters but weak plots.

Quick and dirty response: Use plot structure diagrams and other graphics (and templates) to help you through the work. Many of these can be found on writer blogs and simple Google Images searches (one listed at the bottom of this post).


Long response…. Learning to write well, starting from ground zero, can be summed up in one word: plateauing. We can chart a visual to explain it. Y-axis is skill. X-axis is time. On your own merits, you can reach a certain point then not progress to a higher level of skill. Someone helps you over some stagnant level of skill development (a hurdle) to get you to the next level of skill, over time. This repeats till you are at some level of skill you are comfortable with and work from. This is relational to writer’s block, as noted here: http://www.writingeekery.com/writers-block-know-your-plateau/

For me, someone starting from ground zero (as of August of last year), this is the frustrating route; one I did not take. I wanted to expedite my learning curve. I watched almost 50 hours of free, online instruction from Brandon Sanderson and his guest lecturers. From his lectures, I visited A LOT of blog sites (where writers and those learning the process share what they know and learned). If you go to the right blog sites, all free, they provide some intermediate-to-advanced instruction (compared to Sanderson’s nuts-and-bolts approach). I created a 50 page Word document with notes and links from the aforementioned sources. If I need a quick refresher, I just type a Ctrl+F, type in the search term, and all instances pull up.

Sanderson teaches you invaluable information. For example, we do not sell stories. We sell skill. If you want to write for yourself, and not focus on making money from it, go about it as you like. If you want to make money, Sanderson offers great advice: become skilled. He tells of the structure box (the author’s approach to prose). It is what makes readers excited about the story. He tells of character ROMPS, developing characters with slides, and age-appropriate content (MG and YA). He tells of the cultural and physical settings of worlds we create. He and his guest lecturers talk about fight scenes, romance, and comedy.

He talks about magic systems (hard and soft). He talks about reader learning curves and what is age appropriate. He talks about his revision process and why he did not sell one book till his 14th novel. He speaks of world-building and iceberg theory. He speaks of feminist theory and the Bechdel test. We learn of flipover points and much jargon (to help us relate to other writers on forums, at conventions, in writing groups, and so forth). We learn nine ways to get readers to identify with characters and make them matter to them.

Sanderson does not teach everything, and it is impossible. He and his guest lecturers provide a wonder nuts-and-bolts understanding. I watched almost 50 hours of his videos, and I spent many more transcribing them to Word. This is extreme, but I will use it for every project I write. Another thing to learn, if interested, is series writing (and tools to stave off continuity problems, like literary bibles, series symmetry, character sheets, and series grids). With character arcs, there are different stages: growth/transformation; maturity; alteration; and decline/fall. Learn each.

Skill or change over time. The way I chose to do it still involves plateauing, but with a lot less frustration. I spent a lot of extra time digitizing notes, building databases, and so forth. These will be used in every new project I start.

There are numerous plotting methods. For example: Coming of age story; hero’s journey (much of this takes place in Greek dramas, so you’ll learn of odd words like katabasis and apotheosis; six-stage plot structure; archplot structure; Lara Willard’s Eight C’s method; Gustav Freytag’s dramatic structure; and so on. Many of these are the three-act method, just re-imagined. You’ll come across, in your research, things like plot and pinch points, try-fail cycles, plot (structure) diagrams, and so on. Character (including antagonist and protagonist mesh) arcs, story/narrative arcs, plot arcs, and what not, are other things to learn.

Don’t let anyone hurry or infect your learning and getting ready to write. If you are not ready, to your standards, you are not ready. This does not mean to research and learn endlessly; there is a point it becomes excess. It is your project and no one else has any say in it. Don’t let anyone take the wind out of your sails; the learning and work is grueling enough (especially if you start from ground zero).

If interested in Sanderson:

2016 videos: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLH3mK1NZn9QqOSj3ObrP3xL8tEJQ12-vL
Older videos: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXI_L_ZrAnXyvMfpJLlx4ng

Here’s a site I pulled 142 templates from (and it will take work to find them all, if interested). She offers a way to buy them, but you can find them if you are willing to spend time sleuthing them....

https://www.eadeverell.com/worksheets/

I'm fairly extreme as pantsers go, but I still have clear goals and I think that's one of the main things you need, whatever approach you take.

I know what I'm working towards in the narrative, I know what ending I want, and I know that I tend to write double climaxes (one emotional, one plot-based) within a four act structure. My longer shorts and both novels have followed all of that. The other thing is that pantsers still end up highly structured, same as outliners, so if (as your novel is progressing) a structure is not appearing, I'd generally agree it's not working out for you and to try a more beat by beat method.

I would second PAtty's recommendation to look at the different act structures and see if any of them feel right to you, just as a good start point. I like 4 acts, most people seem to like 3, one of my CPs likes 5. When you have an act structure you can then go --> climax at this point --> pinch points here --> and so on.

Nota bene--most high quantity, book-churning indies are plotters. Pantsing by nature is not a high yield process, regardless of quality. Given that Sanderson is very plotty and very high quantity, I'm somewhat baffled that he would not class himself as such.

I remembered. It's called the snowflake method. Here's a link: snowflake

As others have stated, there's lots of ways to approach it. I used the above a little, but then I just had to write.

Enlightened said:

Quantity (heavy on pantsing) vs. Quality (heavy of plotting). This is not to say pantsed novels cannot be high quality.

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What are you trying to say because I am confused how pantsing correlate with quantity and plotting with quality? I cannot see any connections between those.

How in that ginormous post did you get Enlightened was speaking specifically to you? (rhetorical, btw.)

Regardless, there are too many false assertions being made in this thread.

For example, we do not sell stories. We sell skill.

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I don't care who said that, it's ridiculous. We're a storytelling species. Have been almost from the beginning. It's how we communicate and learn. We sell stories, told with skill.

Pantsing by nature is not a high yield process, regardless of quality.

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Yeah, no. Not necessarily so at all. I full-out pants my first draft and in two revisions I'm essentially done. That's the process that works for me; it won't necessarily work for someone else, though. Quality of my own writing, though, is not mine to judge.

The OP asked for ideas on planning. If you've got 'em, share 'em. Otherwise, I'ma get cranky 'cause I've gotten quite tired of the plotting vs. pantsing arguments over the years.

Fair enough. I'd correct it to, "not inherently" since I'm fairly slow. I personally haven't found any link (in friends or on forums or in my own writing) between where you fall on the spectrum, and how quickly you finish novels. There are people at every stage who write at all sorts of speeds and it seems to vary between books even for the same person, AFAICT.

Happy to edit out that section of the post and leave the rest, which might be more relevant.

Ari, not sure if you're speaking about my post. Basically, I read the post and didn't understand that Enlightened meant so I asked a question just to get better understanding about what hey meant. I'm not interested in a debate as I already agree that no method is better than another, it all comes down to what works best for specific individuals. Sorry if my intention wasn't clear.

Elle. said:

What are you trying to say because I am confused how pantsing correlate with quantity and plotting with quality? I cannot see any connections between those.

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I don't have a straightforward answer, because I do not want to make generalizations. I think that is what caused the issue in the first place. My best attempt to sum up my intent/conclusion.... Plotting can help people with quality control of their WIPs.

Below is, likely, a convoluted mess; reader beware. I'll try to further explain my conclusion....

This may be a non-existent issue, but this is something I observed on this forum (and other venues) over time. Some people who pants -- no generalizations made -- tend to go on and on with their writing (quantitatively, page-wise). Plotters, from what I observed in forum posts, appear to have less issue with this. I think one of the more extreme examples I noticed was someone note they were well over 100K and only about halfway through writing their book. This person identified as a pantser. I forget who it was, not that I would call anyone out. This is not an isolated case, nor is it meant to be a generalization of all pantsers. I spoke with someone on the AW IRC channel earlier this year. We talked about writing in open channel. I was told of this person's problems faced (on the 9th revision, trying to pare-down a very high word count, fix gaps, etc.). I was told this person was a heavy pantser. These are two examples, and I know two examples are not enough to make such a statement, but these are not isolated instances.

The quality aspect pertains to the aforementioned individuals. My comment might be better conveyed as.... If someone who pants' with the aforementioned issue, the quality of their work should improve with plotting. They should reach realistic word or page goals, make their writing tighter, cut out unnecessary scenes, narration, and dialogue, and so on.

I think there will be a point made to the effect.... Style does not matter, everyone ends with similar quality and quantity product in the end. Pantsers may have to revise and edit more than plotters, but it all evens out.

If the aforementioned is a point made, I'd like to note that some people just give up (if problems are too great). Brandon Sanderson noted, of his own works, he did not make a sale till his 14th novel. He noted he'd rather write a new book than do revisions. He never went back to any of his first thirteen books and revised. He noted, at a convention (YouTube video), he is in a 36 book over 16 worlds process, and it appears he does not have any interest in those early works. Maybe, if he pantsed more, there would be a lot less editing and revising. I am not suggesting Sanderson is a pantser, and I am not suggesting every pantser does not want to do revisions. I note this example as a reason someone may give up with their WIP and that these seemingly insurmountable issues may be reduced with more (or better) plotting.

My take on that thread--it seemed generally agreed on that the woman in the post who you won't name but describe in great detail, had probably written more than one book and needed to split them up. I don't know, she seemed to be doing okay to me. Writing multiple novels is never a waste.


I can't comment on the rest of what you're saying. Too many unfounded, sweeping generalisations and I don't feel there's a cohesive point to answer, except to say that most writers worth their salt (not all, never all) will need to revise extensively regardless of their drafting process.

Harlequin said:

My take on that thread--it seemed generally agreed on that the woman in the post who you won't name but describe in great detail, had probably written more than one book and needed to split them up. I don't know, she seemed to be doing okay to me. Writing multiple novels is never a waste.

I can't comment on the rest of what you're saying. Too many unfounded, sweeping generalisations and I don't feel there's a cohesive point to answer, except to say that most writers worth their salt (not all, never all) will need to revise extensively regardless of their drafting process.

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I recall the instance you note. It was not her. I agree, her work was a series.

I agree. It's hard to answer a question of my initial generalization without doing it again. I did my best. I do not disagree, and to add, the more experience one has, the better quality.

Enlightened said:

I don't have a straightforward answer, because I do not want to make generalizations. I think that is what caused the issue in the first place. My best attempt to sum up my intent/conclusion.... Plotting can help people with quality control of their WIPs.

Below is, likely, a convoluted mess; reader beware. I'll try to further explain my conclusion....

This may be a non-existent issue, but this is something I observed on this forum (and other venues) over time. Some people who pants -- no generalizations made -- tend to go on and on with their writing (quantitatively, page-wise). Plotters, from what I observed in forum posts, appear to have less issue with this. I think one of the more extreme examples I noticed was someone note they were well over 100K and only about halfway through writing their book. This person identified as a pantser. I forget who it was, not that I would call anyone out. This is not an isolated case, nor is it meant to be a generalization of all pantsers. I spoke with someone on the AW IRC channel earlier this year. We talked about writing in open channel. I was told of this person's problems faced (on the 9th revision, trying to pare-down a very high word count, fix gaps, etc.). I was told this person was a heavy pantser. These are two examples, and I know two examples are not enough to make such a statement, but these are not isolated instances.

The quality aspect pertains to the aforementioned individuals. My comment might be better conveyed as.... If someone who pants' with the aforementioned issue, the quality of their work should improve with plotting. They should reach realistic word or page goals, make their writing tighter, cut out unnecessary scenes, narration, and dialogue, and so on.

I think there will be a point made to the effect.... Style does not matter, everyone ends with similar quality and quantity product in the end. Pantsers may have to revise and edit more than plotters, but it all evens out.

If the aforementioned is a point made, I'd like to note that some people just give up (if problems are too great). Brandon Sanderson noted, of his own works, he did not make a sale till his 14th novel. He noted he'd rather write a new book than do revisions. He never went back to any of his first thirteen books and revised. He noted, at a convention (YouTube video), he is in a 36 book over 16 worlds process, and it appears he does not have any interest in those early works. Maybe, if he pantsed more, there would be a lot less editing and revising. I am not suggesting Sanderson is a pantser, and I am not suggesting every pantser does not want to do revisions. I note this example as a reason someone may give up with their WIP and that these seemingly insurmountable issues may be reduced with more (or better) plotting.

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Thanks for explaining but this all sounds like sweeping generalisation and extrapolation.

Matter of the fact is some people will write best when they are pantsing and other people will write best when they are planning. That's it.

One will not yield better quality writing than the other, nor will one produce more quantity or produce bigger needs for revision than the other. It's like saying writing with the right hand will make your handwriting nicer and writing with the left hand will make you write faster.

I agree with Harlequin, whatever methods you use, numerous revisions are needed to get your story/manuscript to be the best version it can be.

There are so many different methods available out there, writers just need to find the one that works the best for them.


OP - let's us know how you get on and if you've found something that works for you!

One thing you might want to try is writing an outline for the story that went nowhere. List out what actually happens in each scene. Write as much for each bullet point as you need to understand what happens, but keep it fairly brief. You can then edit that outline to make the story flow better. For stories where I just start writing until they're done, I often write an outline afterwards. It's a good way to check for story issues. Even if you're planning to ditch this story completely, it'll help you understand what went wrong.

There's also the hybrid approach of doing some writing to get a feel for characters and events you might include. Then using that to help form an outline as you go. That means alternating between some writing and some outline plans until you have the whole shape of the story.

These approaches aren't as formal as a lot of outlining methods, but they work better for me as someone who favours just starting to write. You can have some of the benefits of outlining without needing to have every last detail planned.

Ooh yes ^ even if you decide it's not got enough legs, the autopsy is a useful learning experience

Developmental synopses also good

DanielSTJ said:

How do you go about planning your stories?

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The Clothesline Method

It helped me see the over all progression of my story without a lot of fluff to get in my way. From that, I find the structure of a story sort of falls into place.