New government requirement

Fingers · May 10, 2018

I went to Key Bank to day to cash a check so I could go grocery shopping. We (The Boss and I) have been doing our business with Key Bank for well over 30 years. I was told that they couldn't cash my check because Key Bank had a new system they were using and it required me to tell them what my job was. I told them I didn't have a job as I was retired. Have been for 11 years. They wanted me to tell them what my job was before I retired and told them it was none of their business. They said they couldn't cash my check without that information. I told them to hang on, I would come inside as I didn't want to do this from the drive through. I went inside and the teller told me I could speak to the manager of the bank to get an explanation.

The manager brought me into his office and told me he had an email from corporate just this morning that said the system wont allow 'retired' as an entry and that I would have to tell them what my job used to be. I asked him why and he said it is some kind of government regulation. When I asked him to expand on that explanation he said he thought it had something to do with tracking currency but he wasn't sure. At that time I asked him for a copy of this government rule or where I could look it up. He said he wasn't required to give me that information and if I wanted to cash my check I would have to do what he said and give them some kind of answer. It was at this time that I gave him a piece of my mind about the practices of Key Bank and why I closed my personal checking account with them. I went out to the teller and told them to put 'hired assassin' as my former job. The manager came out and told me that they would not process my check with that information and he threatened to call the police on me. He didn't ask me to leave, he just threatened to call the cops. I told the teller to that I used to flip burgers and that seemed to make the manager happy, but he continued to glare at me through the entire process.

I probably shouldn't have said hired assassin, but I was pretty pissed by that time. Anyone else doing business with Key Bank run into this requirement? Six months ago Key Bank didn't give a darn about me being retired when they gave me a 50K line of credit, so I don't get why this is an imperative. Waiting to hear back from Key Bank corporate for an explanation, because now im afraid if I go back this guy will call the cops. By the way, I go to this bank every Thursday morning to cash a check for grocery shopping money for well over the last couple of years.

Jason · May 10, 2018

That was my Laugh out Loud moment of the day, reading about your "hired assassin" reply - I could see myself saying something like that, but probably not to that extreme. probably would have said I was a retired porn star or something equally ludicrous. What a ridiculous "requirement"...

frimble3 · May 10, 2018

Imagine how little the manager would have liked: "Well, before I retired, I made a good living as a bank robber." "Cheque forger - want me to sign something?"
It's not like anyone is going to honestly declare 'Drug dealer', which is who I assume they are looking for. Or, 'Terrorist'.

However, it might be worth calling the bank's head office. Possibly before your next weekly trip. Even if it is a new requirement, surely it's silly to treat long-time customers as though they were shady-looking strangers.
Wait for the same teller to ask the same question next week.

Marian Perera · May 10, 2018

"Counterfeiter. I can make my own money - I just need someplace to store it."

MaeZe · May 10, 2018

I am confused what was happening here.

Why were you cashing a check instead of just making a withdrawal? Was the check a payment from someone or entity?

I cash checks all the time, I deposit them and get cash back. I don't recall ever having to add such a thing to my information. But you can't get a bank account now without a verifiable SSN. That was after the so-called USA PATRIOT Act but I would imagine it's used now to harass undocumented workers.

MaeZe · May 10, 2018

frimble3 said:
Imagine how little the manager would have liked: "Well, before I retired, I made a good living as a bank robber." "Cheque forger - want me to sign something?"
It's not like anyone is going to honestly declare 'Drug dealer', which is who I assume they are looking for. Or, 'Terrorist'.

However, it might be worth calling the bank's head office. Possibly before your next weekly trip. Even if it is a new requirement, surely it's silly to treat long-time customers as though they were shady-looking strangers.
Wait for the same teller to ask the same question next week.

I wouldn't risk putting terrorist down, even in jest.

Cindyt · May 10, 2018

Writing a check and presenting it to the bank for cash is the same thing as making a withdrawal. It seems to me all that should be required is an ID check. I don't understand the new rule or why the manager knew so little about it and refused to give you proof. Sounds fishy to me.

MaeZe · May 10, 2018

Cindyt said:
Writing a check and presenting it to the bank for cash is the same thing as making a withdrawal. It seems to me all that should be required is an ID check. I don't understand the new rule or why the manager knew so little about it and refused to give you proof. Sounds fishy to me.

Why waste a check instead of a withdrawal slip? Is the bank saying you can't have your own money back?

The scenario is confusing, I just wanted more information.

cbenoi1 · May 10, 2018

Fingers said:
We (The Boss and I) have been doing our business with Key Bank for well over 30 years.

Do you still need to specify a job to open an account at another bank? When a bank manager cannot explain a government-issued banking rule in simple layman's terms, it's time to change bank.

Fingers said:
I was told that they couldn't cash my check because Key Bank had a new system they were using and it required me to tell them what my job was.

How about depositing the check, wait 3 business days, then go and get the cash out. Would that still work? If it does, then WTF did the manager NOT propose this?

MaeZe said:
Is the bank saying you can't have your own money back?

The bank cannot authenticate the check on-the-spot. It takes 3 business days to do this (check for "banking compensation". In Canada it's called Automated Clearing Settlement System, but it does the same function - validate a transaction against the originator ). See workaround above.

-cb

eqb · May 10, 2018

I have a Key Bank account. I am sorely tempted to cash a check tomorrow and see what happens.

MaeZe · May 10, 2018

cbenoi1 said:
Do you still need to specify a job to open an account at another bank? When a bank manager cannot explain a government-issued banking rule in simple layman's terms, it's time to change bank.

How about depositing the check, wait 3 business days, then go and get the cash out. Would that still work? If it does, then WTF did the manager NOT propose this?

The bank cannot authenticate the check on-the-spot. It takes 3 business days to do this (check for "banking compensation". In Canada it's called Automated Clearing Settlement System, but it does the same function - validate a transaction against the originator ). See workaround above.

-cb

That doesn't make sense if it's your check on your own account.

I remained puzzled. Details would help.

MaeZe · May 10, 2018

eqb said:
I have a Key Bank account. I am sorely tempted to cash a check tomorrow and see what happens.

And if you do, ask what information is kept on you: Name, SSN, address, birthdate, mother's maiden name and signature.

I don't recall anything else on a bank account form.

Could it be this is one of those equity line of credit accounts? But that doesn't make sense either because with those they give you a credit card.

I'm not saying there isn't stupidity and maybe alarm that the government is implying unemployed people can't cash checks. I just need more information to process this into the right 'activism' pathway.

BenPanced · May 10, 2018

Fingers said:
I went to Key Bank to day to cash a check so I could go grocery shopping. We (The Boss and I) have been doing our business with Key Bank for well over 30 years. I was told that they couldn't cash my check because Key Bank had a new system they were using and it required me to tell them what my job was. I told them I didn't have a job as I was retired. Have been for 11 years. They wanted me to tell them what my job was before I retired and told them it was none of their business. They said they couldn't cash my check without that information. I told them to hang on, I would come inside as I didn't want to do this from the drive through. I went inside and the teller told me I could speak to the manager of the bank to get an explanation.

The manager brought me into his office and told me he had an email from corporate just this morning that said the system wont allow 'retired' as an entry and that I would have to tell them what my job used to be. I asked him why and he said it is some kind of government regulation. When I asked him to expand on that explanation he said he thought it had something to do with tracking currency but he wasn't sure. At that time I asked him for a copy of this government rule or where I could look it up. He said he wasn't required to give me that information and if I wanted to cash my check I would have to do what he said and give them some kind of answer. It was at this time that I gave him a piece of my mind about the practices of Key Bank and why I closed my personal checking account with them. I went out to the teller and told them to put 'hired assassin' as my former job. The manager came out and told me that they would not process my check with that information and he threatened to call the police on me. He didn't ask me to leave, he just threatened to call the cops. I told the teller to that I used to flip burgers and that seemed to make the manager happy, but he continued to glare at me through the entire process.

I probably shouldn't have said hired assassin, but I was pretty pissed by that time. Anyone else doing business with Key Bank run into this requirement? Six months ago Key Bank didn't give a darn about me being retired when they gave me a 50K line of credit, so I don't get why this is an imperative. Waiting to hear back from Key Bank corporate for an explanation, because now im afraid if I go back this guy will call the cops. By the way, I go to this bank every Thursday morning to cash a check for grocery shopping money for well over the last couple of years.

I'd call corporate on this. I'm not finding anything on Key's website, both in information for opening a new account (I looked up the most basic of basic and most complicated, high-falootin' "we're in the money!" accounts and under "employment", guess what's an option: Retired) and in their disclosures and agreements, the most recent one I saw dated 2016, I found nothing about such requirements. (Of course, I've been in situations where banks had changed policies overnight and I didn't know about it until it was time to cash a check. Still, the whole thing stinks.)

Albedo · May 10, 2018

MaeZe said:
I wouldn't risk putting terrorist down, even in jest.

Yeah. Put 'freedom fighter' instead.

RedRajah · May 10, 2018

Or "lobbyist".

cbenoi1 · May 10, 2018

MaeZe said:
That doesn't make sense if it's your check on your own account.

Same bank? Why not just present yourself at the teller and say you want to withdraw $$ from your bank account. Teller should ask you for some ID and bank account information, and you're done. Better: use the ATM...

From another bank? See my comment above. That check needs to be cleared by authorities somehow. In Canada it's done automagically in 3 business days. In the US I have no clue how this works, so I assume there is something similar going on, hence all the hoops and jumps.

You can also try to link one bank account to another, for deposit purposes. From Bank A's web page, transfer money to Bank B. Again, in Canada it takes 3 business days for the amount to appear in Bank B's statement.

If the check comes from some other entity (retirement fund, employer, etc.), many offer direct deposit into your bank account. Some even go as far as depositing the amount ahead of time to compensate for the 3 business days delay, so you get your money exactly on time.

-cb

cbenoi1 · May 10, 2018

frimble3 said:
Imagine how little the manager would have liked: "Well, before I retired, I made a good living as a bank robber." "Cheque forger - want me to sign something?"
It's not like anyone is going to honestly declare 'Drug dealer', which is who I assume they are looking for. Or, 'Terrorist'.

"Anti-Aircraft Gun Ammunition Tester. And before you ask, yes they were all duds."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lJKcdlj-Uiw

-cb

MaeZe · May 10, 2018

cbenoi1 said:
Same bank? Why not just present yourself at the teller and say you want to withdraw $$ from your bank account. Teller should ask you for some ID and bank account information, and you're done. Better: use the ATM...

From another bank? See my comment above. That check needs to be cleared by authorities somehow. In Canada it's done automagically in 3 business days. In the US I have no clue how this works, so I assume there is something similar going on, hence all the hoops and jumps.

You can also try to link one bank account to another, for deposit purposes. From Bank A's web page, transfer money to Bank B. Again, in Canada it takes 3 business days for the amount to appear in Bank B's statement.

If the check comes from some other entity (retirement fund, employer, etc.), many offer direct deposit into your bank account. Some even go as far as depositing the amount ahead of time to compensate for the 3 business days delay, so you get your money exactly on time.

-cb

Not sure what you mean by another bank. Do you mean another branch or a bank that has no relationship to the check writer or check casher?

When I deposit checks paid to me, the bank normally puts a seven day hold, which they'll wave if I ask them to because the checks are from local sources and I've had the account a long time. That's standard. But if I have other money in checking or savings, there's no problem taking cash back from the check that day. Money in my account backs it up.

I still don't have a clear picture what happened here. If you go to cash a third party check but you have a checking account, I'm still unclear where needing to know what your occupation is matters.

Cyia · May 10, 2018

The appropriate answer is : I retired as a bank auditor from the FCC. What's your full name and employee ID number? I have a few calls to make to some folks still on the payroll.

:sarcasm

<--- requisite sarcasm alert because some people are just so very...

Cindyt · May 10, 2018

MaeZe said:
Why waste a check instead of a withdrawal slip? Is the bank saying you can't have your own money back?

The scenario is confusing, I just wanted more information.

In Georgia, USA, we either cash a check or get money out of an ATM for a checking account. Withdrawal slips are used to get money out of a savings account and maybe the ATM, I'm not sure..

Fingers · May 10, 2018

We have been banking at this branch for the last 17 years. We have had Key Bank accounts for over 30 years. The check was from The Bosses (my wife) checking account. I eventually went inside and the requirement was the same. If I wanted to cash the check, or withdraw any money from the account I had to tell them what my job was before I retired 11 years ago. I called the key bank support number and they were unable to give me a phone number to anyone in the district office that oversees this branch. They took my info and said they would pass it on via email to the district office. They took my phone number and said I would be called. This happened just after the branch opened this morning. No call yet. I went through the drive through window so I wouldn't have to go inside the branch. I have cashed a check at this branch nearly every Thursday for the last four or five years. I presented a check drawn on an account from this branch that had my name along with my wife's name. Also gave them my Oregon drivers license. Just like every week. Never had any issues with it til today. This is supposed to a brand new requirement starting today. Im skeptical whenever someone says its a government thing then tells me they don't have to show me anything. That's what got my dander up. I have little hope of anything occurring that will be of any help to me.

MaeZe · May 10, 2018

Fingers said:
We have been banking at this branch for the last 17 years. We have had Key Bank accounts for over 30 years. The check was from The Bosses (my wife) checking account. I eventually went inside and the requirement was the same. If I wanted to cash the check, or withdraw any money from the account I had to tell them what my job was before I retired 11 years ago. I called the key bank support number and they were unable to give me a phone number to anyone in the district office that oversees this branch. They took my info and said they would pass it on via email to the district office. They took my phone number and said I would be called. This happened just after the branch opened this morning. No call yet. I went through the drive through window so I wouldn't have to go inside the branch. I have cashed a check at this branch nearly every Thursday for the last four or five years. I presented a check drawn on an account from this branch that had my name along with my wife's name. Also gave them my Oregon drivers license. Just like every week. Never had any issues with it til today. This is supposed to a brand new requirement starting today. Im skeptical whenever someone says its a government thing then tells me they don't have to show me anything. That's what got my dander up. I have little hope of anything occurring that will be of any help to me.

Thanks for the added information. It clears some things up, but not everything. I apologize, I'm truly just trying to understand the whole picture. I tried Googling 'government banking change' and a number of other versions and I couldn't find anything matching this situation.

You say the check was from your wife's account and you don't say 'from your joint account' with your spouse. My name is on my son's account and his name is on mine. But we can't see each other's accounts online and our checks don't have the other's name. We don't have joint accounts though, when I'm in the bank, if I want to see his balance I can.

Your experience sounds very strange. I'd love to find whatever new reg the bank claimed they were following.

This search string brings up no results: "key bank new rules 'your occupation needs to be on record'"

'Key bank new rules' brings up nothing relevant.

I tried complaints about Key Bank and got this site. Searching the page for "occupation" there's nothing. I'm not sure what else to look for.

LittlePinto · May 11, 2018

Weird. Are they now doing Currency Transaction Reports for small transactions?

Snitchcat · May 11, 2018

Scroll down to the "Currency Transactions" section. Regulation info in the last question there.

What rules require you to ask for this information?

The Currency and Foreign Transactions Reporting Act of 1970 (commonly referred to as the Bank Secrecy Act or BSA) requires U.S. financial institutions to assist U.S. government agencies in detecting and preventing money laundering.

Additional information is available from FinCEN, an agency of the U.S. Treasury.

https://www.key.com/about/customer-service/customer-service-banking-questions.jsp

P.S. That entire Q&A section mentions "occupation" and "confirming personal information in future transactions".

raburrell · May 11, 2018

The idea of this particular government suddenly being concerned about money laundering has done gone and broke my irony meter...

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