I don't know how I feel about abusive relationships in Romance and Erotica

mhdragon

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There seems to be a good bit of writers who publish stories with abusive relationships. BDSM seems to be a popular ingredient to some of these books. There are two ways to see it: a safe place to explore sexual fantasies or simply that they have abusive relationships and are harmful. Some in The BDSM community hates these books because they portray kink incorrectly. Some books are just downright upsetting.

I tried reading the Crossfire by Sylvia Day. The rich billionaire asks the female protagonist if she would have sex with while they were in the elevator after their second encounter. It annoyed me. In any normal real life situation this is totally unacceptable and what women everywhere are fighting against with the Metoo movement. But in this book it was totally ok because he looked like (I believe the wording was) a Norse god, and she was attracted to him anyways.

I'm probably opening up a can of worms here.
 
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louisecooksey

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This has caused me to stop reading so many books. I don't have a problem with BDSM when it is consensual and not used for psychological torture. BUT there are so many books where the characters are using it to manipulate one another in just absolutely horrible ways.

I really hope readers see the abuse for abuse, but somehow I think not from the reviews I've read.

It goes way back to the bodice ripper days, too. I remember reading my stepmother's paperback romances and being flabbergasted that a woman could find "true love" with her rapist.
 

Maryn

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I write a lot of BDSM--but it's virtually always within the context of a larger, and successful, relationship. No billionaires or celebrities playing such games with the pretty naif on the elevator. No person with power, authority, etc. domming someone in a lesser position. I don't find that hot at all--but the success of Day and James says lots of readers do.

Ugh. All I can do is write BDSM among people in happier relationships and not buy the other.
 

Cobalt Jade

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I guess it depends on how you read such books -- as one would read a mainstream work, a Romance one, or a Porn one.

Mainstream reading, applying one's real-life world to them, they are pretty appalling. I've stopped reading more than a few because of this.

Romance reading is different. I think part of it is projecting yourself into the characters and living through them, as a fantasy, feeling with them bad and good.

Porn reading can be projection or a third-person, voyeuristic kind of reading for dirty thrills. I admit to the latter when I read extreme stuff. I don't feel for the characters and don't see myself in them, but I like to read about what they're up to.
 

morngnstar

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I don't think it's an endorsement of the abusive behavior. Rather it's a fantasy about "taming" it. The heroine seems to be rewarding bad behavior, and that offends our sense of justice, but actually it results in a different (arguably better) form of justice. The MMC goes unpunished, but is "cured" of his abusive behavior.

The main problem with this is that it's unrealistic, and if anyone in an abusive relationship were to take it as a guide to how to deal with their problems, it wouldn't work out very well. But realism is not a requirement for romance.

My problem with them is different. The idea of "taming" seems distancing to me. It regards men as a different species, which women can't possibly empathize with. They can only learn manipulative strategies for behavior modification. It's not for me.
 

mhdragon

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I guess it depends on how you read such books -- as one would read a mainstream work, a Romance one, or a Porn one.

Mainstream reading, applying one's real-life world to them, they are pretty appalling. I've stopped reading more than a few because of this.

Romance reading is different. I think part of it is projecting yourself into the characters and living through them, as a fantasy, feeling with them bad and good.

Porn reading can be projection or a third-person, voyeuristic kind of reading for dirty thrills. I admit to the latter when I read extreme stuff. I don't feel for the characters and don't see myself in them, but I like to read about what they're up to.

Yes, this is how I do it. But the sad thing is with abusive relationships, the need for the the victim to stay with the abuser no matter what is something we see in real life. The abuser apogizes or tries to change and the victim decides to try to make it work. When I read these stories often I see the overarcing theme from a feminist perspective about changing "the bad boy." However that gets lost sometimes in the characterizations. No women or men want to be treated like an object, unless that relationship has been established between two people. Also often times the victim becomes a fixation for the abuser, that he or she is the only one, or a perfect match. Generally, (and its the men) treat their victim like she is the "one." These men are assholes. They will leave the moment the next hottest thing walks in. I think lots of writers and readers (who write/read this stuff) fantasize about this stuff, and so it becomes a projection and a fantasy which is a safe place.
 

Maryn

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Agreed--but haven't we all known a few women who just wouldn't leave an asshole like that? I know I have.
 

Noizchild

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Yes, this is how I do it. But the sad thing is with abusive relationships, the need for the the victim to stay with the abuser no matter what is something we see in real life. The abuser apogizes or tries to change and the victim decides to try to make it work.

That reminds me of that pastor who told the woman to stay with her abusive husband.
 

cool pop

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In erotica, I can see how it can be used as niche. As someone pointed out, a fantasy. I get that but in romance I find it disgusting that so many romance books are now glorifying the so-called hero treating the heroine like crap. This is why I don't read books labeled alpha male romance anymore. Because most of them were the same thing over and over. Many of the relationships in the alpha male romances especially are based on the hero dishing out physical abuse, humiliation, mental and psychological abuse, and I don't go for it. The problem is many authors don't seem to know what an alpha male really is. An alpha male doesn't mean he is abusive and walks all over the heroine and she sits there and take it like doormat. An alpha male means he is strong and takes charge and doesn't have a good handle on his emotions and likes to keep people at arms length, etc. It doesn't mean some brute out there physically and mentally bashing women while whoring around. Speaking of which, where did THAT criteria come from? Since when is whoring around a must-have quality for an alpha male? That has nothing to do with being alpha and come on, what heroine would wanna be with a man who's had more women than Weight Watchers? I know I wouldn't, fantasy or otherwise.

Romance is supposed to be escapism for women and for us to swoon over heroes we read about because they are a fantasy. How the heck can an abusing a-hole be something someone fantasies about? Maybe some women can but not me. I love a strong man, don't get me wrong. But I hate a creepy, violent abuser.

So I agree. I refuse to read ROMANCE novels that glorify abuse. I am fine with romance that shows abuse for what it is. I've written romances and romantic suspense books where the heroine dealt with domestic violence either in her past or the present. But, I don't glorify it as something sexy and glamorous.

The reason it makes a difference for me whether it's romance or erotica is because romance is supposed to be about the relationship and the emotional journey of the characters. There is a difference between BDSM for an erotic fantasy and a woman in a romance book being treated like trash by the man she claims to love and us reading the book is supposed to think this is okay because this dude is some big tycoon with abs as big as a trailer and Warren Buffet money. Please. Also, a lot of the billionaire alpha male books that have these type of "heroes" enforce a belief that it's okay to treat women a certain way if the man has money. No, just no.

It's a shame that these alpha a-holes some authors are writing are giving the entire category of alpha male a bad name. There are a lot of authors who of course write about true alpha males and not these so-called men but there are so many of those glorifying abuse books that sell so well it makes you think that's all that's out there if that's all you begin to see.

I'm sure we all agree there's a difference in depicting abuse and glorifying it.
 
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cool pop

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This has caused me to stop reading so many books. I don't have a problem with BDSM when it is consensual and not used for psychological torture. BUT there are so many books where the characters are using it to manipulate one another in just absolutely horrible ways.

I really hope readers see the abuse for abuse, but somehow I think not from the reviews I've read.

It goes way back to the bodice ripper days, too. I remember reading my stepmother's paperback romances and being flabbergasted that a woman could find "true love" with her rapist.


I agree about the rapist thing. It's one reason I still can't understand why so many people love Luke and Laura. Really? How did they ever become a soap opera super couple? Gross!

Surprisingly, some women do fall for their rapists in real life but I'd not want to read a romance based off this.
 
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Maryn

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(Hey, exactly 100 posts. Where'd I leave the fireworks?)
 

the.real.gwen.simon

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Yeah, it's a no for me.

The BDSM community has a popular phase used as a sort of watchword- Safe, Sane, Consensual. If at any point the scene stops being one of these things, the scene stops. In fiction, people get a little liberal with the Safe and Sane parts, because the fictional sub isn't actually going to get their arms yanked out of socket when improvised suspension fails- it just won't fail. It's when people play fast and loose with the Consensual part that it stops being an amusing fantasy and turns into rape.

People fantasize about all kinds of things (Some of which are very, very stange, and some of which will make your hair stand on end) but whenever an author starts in with the heroine having sex with some guy to lure him in with her wiles I want to shake her. Or the falling in love with your rapist thing, which was so freaking popular for a while. It makes me wonder about the authors, of whom a statistical majority are women. If some rich douche tells you to bend over, are you just going to do it? Of course you aren't, even the sluttiest hussy doesn't like to be talked to like that by some random guy.
 

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If that's not your fantasy, then you are not in that readership. It's fiction though--so people get to like whatever they like.
 

Maryn

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That's absolutely true. There are things I love reading about, and writing about, that are strictly fantasy and would be appalling to me if they were real. This is not especially unusual.
 

katfireblade

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I think the fact that romance and erotica both are based in human fantasy is what makes drawing the line on this so difficult. For instance, one of the biggest fantasies among women is the "rape" fantasy (one could actually argue these are domination fantasies, not rape), and yet, it's also the most abhorrent thing in real life. But these fantasies work because even the "unknown attacker" is known. They have limits, their desires are always the same as the fantasizer, and even their looks are acceptable. In the fantasy, even at their most dangerous they're a neutered attacker, completely safe, and the outcome will always be what the fantasizer desires.

Erotica and romance have the same traits. These are shared fantasies--as someone else said, the suspension systems will never fail in a fantasy. On the same note, duels to the death won't leave the hero crippled, rough sex will cause no damage, and if someone is being an ass, they'll always wake up to it before the emotional damage become permanent. Oh yeah, and STDs only exist except conceptually, while unwanted pregnancies are a mere plot point with any hardships either overcome or completely forgotten, even by the people around them. It's the world with the rough edges removed.

So I do allow a lot of leeway for unlikely behavior that wouldn't fly in the real world, because, to me, that is the nature of these sorts of books. They're an escape from reality, not an embracing of it, a safe walk on the wild side.

That said....

A pet peeve of mine is people portraying dangerous or unlikely behavior and/or equipment in BDSM, but for me it's because I like well researched stories. If the author is unwilling to research their subject, I won't respect them. I feel like authors have to earn wiggle room to stretch boundaries (the mind/emotion reading dom who never needs a safeword, for example, because he knows what you want before you do) by first getting the foundation right.

Where I truly balk and it slides into abusive for me is characterization.

Back in the big brouhaha surrounding Twilight, I read an article that had the most fascinating point to make. It said that Edward and Bella's relationship--creepy points and all--might have been more acceptable if, instead of portraying it as a great, sweeping romance that was good for everyone, it had been portrayed as a relationship that worked for them. This shifted some gears in my head because it was so right. I had read about, cheered for, and fallen a little in love with a lot of heroes and heroines over the years, including ones doing things in their relationship I would never want in mine, or people I wouldn't be compatible with or even like in real life. I didn't cheer because they met my ideals, but because they were so right for each other.

And many of my wallbangers were the places an author tried to force two incompatible characters to hook up and make me believe it was happy and would last. Hermione and Ron are a sterling example--those two have marriage counseling and possibly a divorce in their future, and frankly I'm none too sure about Harry and Ginnie's longevity either considering how he constantly ignored what she wanted and left her behind. (Yeah, a silly example, but one everyone knows.)

Character is everything. So is showing romance in the microcosm of two people, not the macrocosm of "this is normal to everybody." Because no, it never is.

The one that always comes to mind was a romance I read a couple years back. In it, the heroine did something wrong; sent a letter telling the hero the women he liked (the other woman, because he also liked the heroine and frankly liked her more) was getting married to someone else. Things to keep in mind is even the hero knew he'd never get to marry that girl, he openly admitted they were unsuited as a couple, and the girl was actually marrying someone else anyway, though that wasn't yet known to the main characters.

Oh, and the hero discovered the deception before he married the heroine.

His reaction was not to call off the wedding.

Nope, his first reaction was to rape her until she broke, body and mind. No, that isn't hyperbole on my part; in the most lyrical, beautiful prose, he thought about how he wanted to physically and mentally wreck her for the travesty of...sending a letter. Of being so desperately in love with him (and a teen at the time) that she pulled a boneheaded stunt. Then he changes his mind, deciding it would be better to marry her and emotionally abuse her the rest of their lives. Which he proceeds to do for the next ten years. And when she finds a better guy and demands a divorce he is once again ready to harm her, because how dare she try to leave?

And the focus of the book? The change arc was about the heroine realizing how wrong sending that letter had been because she had (and this was openly stated) wounded his manly pride. Once she finally owned up to that, everything was okay. The hero had no change arc, as everything he'd done was apparently perfectly acceptable, even romantic. I mean, what else do you expect from a man?

Those kinds of portrayals of abusive relationships scare the bejeesus out of me because they package abnormal and even criminal behavior as something to be expected of men, as base normal for the gender. They teach men really are monsters at heart, and changing those monsters means bending to them until they stop hurting you, and loving them until they see you're worth loving back.

All of which never works in real life.

I am genuinely okay when I can see and know it's just a fantasy between two decent, or even morally grey characters, when the author shows me not "this is a functional relationship" but "this relationship works for these two people in particular because their deficiencies, demons,and good points all mesh into a positive whole." It's when the message comes that whatever bad behavior they're displaying is normal, expected, and common to everyone (and romantic to boot) that I find myself once again denting a wall with a well flung book.
 

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I’d caution that one person’s abuse is another’s turn-on. It could be abuse if one person says stop and the other one doesn’t stop. Yet sexual relationships are often not cut and dried. One might want to say “stop” and at the same time not want the other person to actually stop. A sensitive lover knows the difference and it takes experience and listening.

If there is such a truly abusive relationship in a story, maybe our hero(ine) can walk through the fire and emerge victorious...the abuser gets their just desserts?