Am I alone here? Two questions~

I don't like to outline fiction because I get bored when I know where the story is going. I've already told it once, in the outline, so get impatient writing the actual book.

I start writing having a character in mind, and a few events planned for them. I write scenes as they come to me; I allow all sorts of characters introduce themselves. I keep going until I have about fifty thousand words down, and then I pause and take stock. I start to arrange the scenes I have in some sort of order; and when I do that I realise what I need to write to connect the scenes into a reasonable flow. I always end up with several sub-plots to deal with. Somehow it all ends up reaching a reasonable conclusion.

It's all edge-of-seat stuff. I love writing like this. I know lots of other writers who follow the same sort of path. If it works for you, it's good.

The outline actually prevents the writer's block to me. It gives me a road map.

KayMitch said:

First question. Does anyone else run into huge writers block when they outline their entire story? I have stopped outlining because every time I do I get bored with the story and stop writing. But this leads to another problem of me having no idea where my plot is going because I didn't outline it. So I try to just make a basic plot of where the story is going.

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I don't try to outline my entire story either - it does get boring, and of course one gets stuck at some point or another. I just jot down the events that I know will definitely happen in the story, then fill in the blanks, expand on the writing, and it all comes together (at least that is my new writing process). I think you're on the right track by outlining as much as you need to - no more, no less.

As for your second question, it has happened to me as well, and there's nothing wrong with that as long as each of your book has a coherent structure and depth. In general, I think writing is a pretty open/loose process (like all creative processes), and most people have to discover what works for them personally.

KayMitch said:

My personal problem right now is ...

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(Just read your new post)

Something like your story happens in the Raven Cycle series by Maggie Stiefvater. *spoilers ahead*

It's about a group of people who are on a mission to find a slumbering Welsh king. While they don't find the king in the first book, they complete the crucial step that will probably help them find him in the next books. In book 1, we get introduced to the main characters, their conflicts, lives, etc. but we always know that the four boys are really bent on finding the king, and most things are centered around that (there are other subplots such as characters' personal problems).

So I'd suggest a) Reading the books could be helpful, and b) Do remember the main plot and show it in the first book while fitting the subplots around it. Hope this helps!

You say that their accidental path leads them to the translator who'll read the map for them - the map is connection to the mission, so it should work. Keep in mind that the characters have to be thinking about and taking steps toward their mission (even if those steps are thwarted) so that the premise still runs through book.

Good luck!

I don't tend to outline on paper or on MS Word anymore. i never really follow them. Instead, I have major plot points in my head that I build the story around, or I just wing it. I enjoy being surprised by my writing, my characters. It helps to know your characters, too, so you can know what they'd decide to do in a particular situation. I hope you figure it out.

Have you thought of doing research and VERY LIGHTLY just making a few notes about what you want to accomplish with each chapter and then just rocking it?

P.S. I like your idea! Props! =D

Leonard Bishop has said that the right time to outline a story is after the first draft. For some writers, I think that might be appropriate. But whatever works to get you forward is what you have to do. I watched a panel discussion at a major writers' conference some years ago, which involved a debate between Terry Brooks and John Saul. Brooks (who got into writing Fantasy novels after a career as a corporate attorney) is a fanatical outliner. Saul is a total pantser.

Both have done purty well at this game.

caw

zanzjan said:

But really, do what works for you? And accept that what works for one novel might not work for the next, so you have to be adaptable without letting uncertainty and self-doubt lose you in the weeds

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This. Patricia Wrede once told me that you don't learn how to write novels. You learn how to write this particular novel.

I just want to echo zanzjan's words: Do what works for you.

Excellent advice.

Well, I am an outliner, except that I cannot stick to the plan to save my life.

I think the suggestions that you have some key superstructure and a few key scenes as a loose plan is probably a good one and maybe it would also help if you had an ending in mind (rough or detailed - you pick) that you could progress towards.

Good luck.

talktidy said:

Well, I am an outliner, except that I cannot stick to the plan to save my life.

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Nothing wrong with that, either. If the outline gets you going, great. If, as you write, you generate new ideas that don't conform to the outline, great too. That's called "creativity".

caw

I find that the less I think about what's ahead and the more I think about what just happened and what is happening now, the easier it is to write. fwiw

Layla Nahar said:

I find that the less I think about what's ahead and the more I think about what just happened and what is happening now, the easier it is to write. fwiw

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I read the part in bold and thought, Wow, she's talking so wisely about mindfulness. Then I read the last part and thought, Wow, still mindfulness - in writing I agree, though, everything - including writing - is better and more natural and easy when you pay attention to what's in front of you at any given moment.

I get/have that problem. My workaround is to do a one-page only general description of the story so I know where I'm going. Beginning, middle, and end. Like an elevator pitch to a publisher about your story. Then I very loosely outline it down to the chapter but at that level, it's just a few bullet points in each one covering what I want to have happen. 100,000 words is about five pages. Since it's somewhat generic (I want it to stay flexible as it develops), I can then creatively improvise in any given chapter without worrying much about wandering too far off the path. When I get stuck, and I do on occasion, I just go to the next chapter and start it. This, for me at any rate, often helps resolve issues with the previous chapter. As I finish each chapter I update and expand that chapter's outline bullet points as a rolling reference. It's a bit of a mix, there is a plan so I know where I'm going, but it leaves me the room for change and creativity.

I think everyone goes through some shade of this problem, sometimes several times. Here's a link to 25 Things You Should Know About Outlining, by Chuck Wendig, who has about a million of these things: (http://terribleminds.com/ramble/2013/05/14/25-things-you-should-know-about-outlining/)

When you say that outlining doesn't work for you, do you mean the kind you learned in school, with the roman numerals and everything very rigid and formal? Because that is definitely not a method that works for every person (Or every project). But there are a ton of methods that fall in between that kind of outlining and full-tilt pantsing, which also does not appear to be working for you.

I recommend the Snowflake Method to everyone, largely on principal, but you seem like a Tentpole type from your description. Tentpole outlining is a much looser variety, where you only decide on a few concrete moments in the story: Steve gets the Macguffin, Karen betrays him, Steve wins the Macguffin back in a game of high-stakes baccarat. Those are the only things you have in your outline before you grab your machete and head out into the word jungle. Questions like 'How did he get the Macguffin?' or 'How did she betray him?' or 'What the hell is baccarat?' get solved pantser style, when you get there.

As for the concern about "I keep accidentally writing a trilogy with no idea how to write the novels", well, that just means you have to do this four times (Or however many books plus the overarching narrative). The thing is, if there's enough story there, you'll find it. Let's say we expand my story into a trilogy about Steve and Karen. The first book will be How Steve Got The MacGuffin, then The Tale of Karen's Betrayal, and the exciting series finale, Steve Plays Baccarat. Now I need to pick tentpoles for those stories: Steve finds out about the Macguffin, Steve teams up with Karen, The Dangerous Heist Happens. In the second book maybe Steve and Karen fight about what to do with the Macguffin, Steve hides the Macguffin, Karen steals the Macguffin and runs away with the Spoon. Now we just need the parts where Steve tracks down Karen, then her new boyfriend the Spoon beats Steve up, then Steve wins the baccarat game with the Macguffin as his prize.

You just start from the farthest out, whole thing in 20-Words-Or-Less kind of outline, and keep getting closer and more specific until you feel like you've made the gaps between the poles small enough for you to pants from one to the other without getting lost.

When I was a kid, I played with Lego. I built cities with buildings and populated these places with plastic trees and flowers. That was my outline. The adventures my characters had there were in no way hampered by anything I had built. If a house was too small, I rebuilt it. If a tree stood in the way, I took it off and threw it at my sibling (*hee hee*).