What have you learned...

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Maze Runner

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about yourself as a writer? We're all trying to get better, and we know it's an endless road, but what have you learned so far and how has that affected what and how you've written since?
 

Enlightened

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I'm curious as to what the OP learned.

If we picture an economic model with knowledge (what we know) on the Y-axis and time on the X-axis, we gain knowledge through some learning curve. It can be steep (over a short time) or gradual (over years or decades). In my opinion, no matter how you go about learning how to write professionally, one never stops learning.

I attempted the steepest learning curve method I could develop, without a mentor. I'd say it was more successful than I anticipated, but I still have loads to learn.

The biggest thing that changed my perspective on writing, and wanting to have some level of commercial success (not fame), is the totality/holism one must constantly monitor. There are a lot of elements say novel writers must monitor: writing; revision; finding agents; marketing; scams; and so forth. To answer the prompt, I learned one must be a little more than cautious when putting one's work out there (e.g. into the wrong hands of unscrupulous people). About my writing, creative writing is very different from business and administrative writing (my strong suits). Creative writing is more descriptive than the KISS method of business and administrative writing. I have to learn how to stray away from the KISS style when I write.
 

Siri Kirpal

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Sat Nam! (Literally "Truth Name"--a Sikh greeting)

I've written a couple of memoirs. In the course of writing and editing the first one (not yet published), I talked to various family members and friends and showed them the passages they were in so they could correct anything that was inaccurate. As a result of that, I learned why something happened that had puzzled me for years. That passage got cut in the process of editing, but oh what I learned!

Blessings,

Siri Kirpal
 

Maze Runner

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I'm curious as to what the OP learned...

A friend, a true friend and a good writer, suggested that I'm writing the wrong kind of book. Truth is, she's only read two of four, and not the one of the four that I'd consider literary. The other three were written for pure entertainment value, but she senses that I don't want to reveal too much of myself, and that's why, to her, they ring false. Could be because she knows me so well, but truthfully, there's something to what she says, probably more than I can see. Ha, got me thinking though. Damn...

Sat Nam! (Literally "Truth Name"--a Sikh greeting)

I've written a couple of memoirs. In the course of writing and editing the first one (not yet published), I talked to various family members and friends and showed them the passages they were in so they could correct anything that was inaccurate. As a result of that, I learned why something happened that had puzzled me for years. That passage got cut in the process of editing, but oh what I learned!

Blessings,

Siri Kirpal

Interesting what we can find out when we have to. One of mine is based on a true story, the one I mentioned above, and I learned tons.
 

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That I'm not good enough to write good "genre" fiction, of any category. And that what I can write and complete has no commercial market and interest no agents or editors anywhere.

caw
 

Maze Runner

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That I'm not good enough to write good "genre" fiction, of any category. And that what I can write and complete has no commercial market and interest no agents or editors anywhere.

caw

Well, I'm almost convinced of the same, but we can't be sure of that, can we? Hello? Can we? hahaha, maybe we can.
 

Ari Meermans

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That I'm not good enough to write good "genre" fiction, of any category. And that what I can write and complete has no commercial market and interest no agents or editors anywhere.

caw

Well, I'm almost convinced of the same, but we can't be sure of that, can we? Hello? Can we? hahaha, maybe we can.

No, you can't. Either one of ya. Not 'til the last day you can write, the last book you've completed, and have finally exhausted every possible avenue for getting your stories out there. Then, and only then, will you know.
 

Maryn

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About myself as a writer? That while sales are big feel-good moments of validation, I will continue to write even when I've decided against submitting anything anywhere. I've tried to stop twice in the last twenty-five years and lasted only a few months before I had to write some more.
 

lizmonster

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I have learned that I can be told every awful thing about my writing there is, have every weak spot trod upon, have all of my confidence stripped away, and I'll still somehow need to write.

Not sure this is a good thing.
 

Ari Meermans

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Okay, iffen I'm going to participate, I guess I have to go whole hog: I'm a good writer—probably not great—but, yeah, pretty darn good; and I do love to write. But, you see, I'm a commitment-phobe and I simply have no interest in going the distance.
 

Maze Runner

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Okay, iffen I'm going to participate, I guess I have to go whole hog: I'm a good writer—probably not great—but, yeah, pretty darn good; and I do love to write. But, you see, I'm a commitment-phobe and I simply have no interest in going the distance.

A friend I've had since I was ten years old, the other day, out of nowhere (I thought) told me, "Well, you know you've always had a problem with commitments." I had no idea what he meant until I thought about it for a few days, but he was right. And, I think, that's what's kept me from committing to writing another story--for what? A while now. Almost a year since I finished the last one. Because, I know that it will have to be the best thing I've ever written--and I've been balking at the challenge.
 

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I guess the point is you do it or you don't. You can think about it, talk about it, sweat over it, but unless you do it, you'll never know. So maybe the question isn't whether we're good enough, but whether we're willing to put in the work to find out.
 

Ari Meermans

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Waitaminnit! I, for one, was answerin' a question about what I've learned about myself as a writer, not offerin' advice.
 
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lizmonster

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Because, I know that it will have to be the best thing I've ever written--and I've been balking at the challenge.

Just to play devil's advocate - why does it have to be this? Could it be, instead, something that was fun for you to write, without worrying about finished quality?
 

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Three of the things I have learned:

1. I can write well enough to be published, which I consider pretty cool.
2. No advice or convention should be taken seriously unless tested. In my opinion, the more mistakes you make (and understand), the better the writer you become.
3. Readers do not care what methods you used or what 'rules' you broke to produce a finished piece of work. They will only judge you on the result.
 

Maze Runner

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Waitaminnit! I, for one, was answerin' a question, not offerin' advice.

haha, yeah, no, I know. Just drawing my own conclusions, Ari.

Just to play devil's advocate - why does it have to be this? Could it be, instead, something that was fun for you to write, without worrying about finished quality?

Because the stuff I've written just for fun hasn't got me anywhere. And I suspect that even the one I hold out as my personal best has fallen short because it just wasn't good enough. The only other possible reason I can think of is the subject matter. You ready? A historical boxing novel, hahaha, did your eyes glaze over?
 

lizmonster

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A historical boxing novel, hahaha, did your eyes glaze over?

Actually, no. :) I've enjoyed a lot of boxing films, and even (gasp!) the occasional documentary.

I'll grant you, I'm probably not the demographic to get you onto the NYT bestseller list, but depending on the story, that's a book I'd pick up.

But you need to look after yourself in this. There's never a requirement to write. Just suggesting that you should do what feeds you, whatever that is.
 

Ari Meermans

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Because the stuff I've written just for fun hasn't got me anywhere. And I suspect that even the one I hold out as my personal best has fallen short because it just wasn't good enough. The only other possible reason I can think of is the subject matter. You ready? A historical boxing novel, hahaha, did your eyes glaze over?

Because it's about boxing? Nah. I'd hazard a guess that possibly—just possibly—your MC wasn't as compelling as you know how to make him(?). (This is where opening a vein and bleeding onto the page comes in. Where you need to reveal yourself, your thoughts, your passions, and so forth.) Just maybe something to take a look at.

ETA: And as Liz said above, you have to look after yourself. You have to do what's best for your own well-being; your health and happiness come first.
 
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Maze Runner

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Actually, no. :) I've enjoyed a lot of boxing films, and even (gasp!) the occasional documentary.

I'll grant you, I'm probably not the demographic to get you onto the NYT bestseller list, but depending on the story, that's a book I'd pick up.

But you need to look after yourself in this. There's never a requirement to write. Just suggesting that you should do what feeds you, whatever that is.

Really? Well, cool, so let me tell you all about it now...

Great advice, the bolded.

Because it's about boxing? Nah. I'd hazard a guess that possibly—just possibly—your MC wasn't as compelling as you know how to make him(?). (This is where opening a vein and bleeding onto the page comes in. Where you need to reveal yourself, your thoughts, your passions, and so forth.)

I bled for this book. Lemme say that again...bled for it, and honestly, 'compelling' is what I heard most often. I should have said upfront, I knew this guy, well, and I nailed the bastard, hahahaha.

Seriously though, I do wonder by your question if you'd thought I wrote a cardboard cutout, you know, the stereotypical brute with no brains and no heart. I fear that's what people think at first blush, when they hear of the subject matter. When I first (thought) I'd finished it, I showed it to my wife, and she asked me why the MC was the one character she couldn't get a real take on. I realized she was right and so I added first person, very introspective and revealing inserts that brought him home. So, now you're in the mind of a prizefighter, I humanize the prizefighter, and I bring the reader right into the ring, as well as moments of doubt and fear and an examination of the warrior mentality. Ha, see what you did? I'm selling it to you now, and for a limited time only, you can get a real good price.
 

Ari Meermans

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Really? Well, cool, so let me tell you all about it now...

Great advice, the bolded.



I bled for this book. Lemme say that again...bled for it, and honestly, 'compelling' is what I heard most often. I should have said upfront, I knew this guy, well, and I nailed the bastard, hahahaha.

Seriously though, I do wonder by your question if you'd thought I wrote a cardboard cutout, you know, the stereotypical brute with no brains and no heart. I fear that's what people think at first blush, when they hear of the subject matter. When I first (thought) I'd finished it, I showed it to my wife, and she asked me why the MC was the one character she couldn't get a real take on. I realized she was right and so I added first person, very introspective and revealing inserts that brought him home. So, now you're in the mind of a prizefighter, I humanize the prizefighter, and I bring the reader right into the ring, as well as moments of doubt and fear and an examination of the warrior mentality. Ha, see what you did? I'm selling it to you now, and for a limited time only, you can get a real good price.
[emphasis mine]

Heavens, no! Not what I meant at all. I was, in part, going back to your earlier comment about having trouble revealing yourself in your writing and in part working with what was going through my head as I read your post: A compelling character could make a book on golf WELL worth reading. ('cause, yanno, I'm not a fan of golf. So shoot me.)

I'd take you up on your offer if I could refrain from offering thoughts and ideas on re-visioning the book—'cause, yanno, that's what I do. heh
 

Maze Runner

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[emphasis mine]

Heavens, no! Not what I meant at all. I was, in part, going back to your earlier comment about having trouble revealing yourself in your writing and in part working with what was going through my head as I read your post: A compelling character could make a book on golf WELL worth reading. ('cause, yanno, I'm not a fan of golf. So shoot me.)

I'd take you up on your offer if I could refrain from offering thoughts and ideas on re-visioning the book—'cause, yanno, that's what I do. heh

Oh, I see. Yeah, I mentioned the friend who'd read other stuff of mine and said I was wading in shallow water. But I grew up around these guys, and so I'm used to people stereotyping them and basically writing them off as morons. Not true of the ones I knew.

If I were lucky enough to have you read this book, I'd want all your thoughts and ideas. I actually really listen to people, because I know it's the stuff you don't see that will do you in.
 

Siri Kirpal

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Sat Nam! (literally "Truth Name"--a Sikh greeting)

I assume this is the guy you've mentioned to me before. I'll hazard the guess that the guy wasn't known enough to get a publisher interested. Not to mention that there's some dicey stuff that the sorts of publishers you and I would probably want to work with would probably have pc tizzies about.

And you? afraid of commitment? Aren't you the guy that's often asked questions about what you can do for your daughter? I'm having trouble thinking about you as a commitment phobe.

And as far as you and CAW go, I'll go one better than Ari: I don't think any of us can know how good our works are or how compelling they are. Emily Dickenson? Didn't make it to the big time until after her death. Most of us don't like to think about that and yes, the world has certainly changed, but really, we can't know. How many authors of big best sellers from 50 years ago can any of us name? How many authors nobody had heard of until after their deaths do we study in school or read in airports?

And there you have it: we learn an awful lot, and a lot of it is awful. But then, but then, there isn't really much difference between awful and awesome, is there?

Blessings,

Siri Kirpal
 

Maze Runner

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Sat Nam! (literally "Truth Name"--a Sikh greeting)

I assume this is the guy you've mentioned to me before. I'll hazard the guess that the guy wasn't known enough to get a publisher interested. Not to mention that there's some dicey stuff that the sorts of publishers you and I would probably want to work with would probably have pc tizzies about.

And you? afraid of commitment? Aren't you the guy that's often asked questions about what you can do for your daughter? I'm having trouble thinking about you as a commitment phobe.

And as far as you and CAW go, I'll go one better than Ari: I don't think any of us can know how good our works are or how compelling they are. Emily Dickenson? Didn't make it to the big time until after her death. Most of us don't like to think about that and yes, the world has certainly changed, but really, we can't know. How many authors of big best sellers from 50 years ago can any of us name? How many authors nobody had heard of until after their deaths do we study in school or read in airports?

And there you have it: we learn an awful lot, and a lot of it is awful. But then, but then, there isn't really much difference between awful and awesome, is there?

Blessings,

Siri Kirpal

Yep, this is the guy. Yeah, though he got into the top ten (without the full use of his right arm) he's pretty much forgotten now, so not a name that would immediately grab one's attention.

Well, my daughter, yeah, but that's different.
 
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