The great re-write nightmare

thelearnedfox · Apr 24, 2018

Greetings all. I hope some of you can identify with this, as it has been extremely frustrating, but I am in the process of writing my first SF novel at the age of 27. I was in love with the setting and tone of where I was going and had an outline that made sense (at least to me) but after some sage advice from those closest to me, I started to re-examine what I had already written. Too many characters, a lackluster plot with some high points, and no central antagonist for the reader to rally against, I felt really dejected. I was already 22,000 words in which in nothing compared to the volume that some people write, I'm sure. But it was *my* 22,000 words and I was already dreading going back and scrapping most of it to start fresh. I know in my head it is the right thing to do and I've already crafted a new, tighter outline but am having trouble staying motivated. Firstly, I want to write because I enjoy it; storytelling is fascinating and engaging to me. Secondly, and more in line with flights-of-fancy, I want it to become mega-popular so I can become rich and famous and just write all the time (doesn't everyone?). Thanks all for hearing me bemoan my situation. As I wrap up this pity party I will try again to start with fresh eyes and fingers for typing.
Best to all,
thelearnedfox

Enlightened · Apr 24, 2018

Have you been through any kind of formal learning; i.e. the how-to process of novel writing? If you have not, you may find yourself, down the road, where you are now (with other problems).

For me, I found great resources online that help new writers manage problems with templates, video instruction, and so forth. All of which are free, if you do enough research online.

thelearnedfox · Apr 24, 2018

I haven't any formal kind of training or instruction outside that of advanced English and Lit electives in high school and college. I am trying to avoid mistakes from the past in the future, do you have any resources you could share off the top of your head?

Enlightened · Apr 24, 2018

You won't get a thorough instruction from any, one source. The 3 sources below should keep you busy for A LONG time. Pick and choose what looks good, and skip the rest. I'd use a combination of the sources below....

1. Brandon Sanderson instructional videos on writing (novels, comedy, loads of topics). I'd learn from both old and new, because there is information not overed in the same topics of say 2014 and 2016 videos of the same topic.

Newest stuff: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLH3mK1NZn9QqOSj3ObrP3xL8tEJQ12-vL
Older stuff: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXI_L_ZrAnXyvMfpJLlx4ng

2. The site below has some 140 free templates to help writers figure out things like character development and LOADS of wonderful things. I spent a few days downloading them all and creating a database of what their descriptions are, for when and if I need them for my WIPs. The first one, on the link below, is called the "Home" template (about mid-page down). At the very bottom of the page are links for pages 1-48 of these documents. If you have time, go through them and see if any are useful to you.

https://www.eadeverell.com/page/1/

3. I'd run the following blog through an XML Sitemap Generator. It will take some minutes to get all the links of the site, but once you have them, you can pick and choose what topics appeal to you most. Copy and paste them to a Word document (after they generate). You'll have to find a Macro online to make all URLs active links, if you do not want to copy paste them all in a browser. This blog helps with numerous aspects of novel writing. It provides graphics for explaining beats/scenes, other. One of the best blog sites I found for helping writers.

Blog: http://www.betternovelproject.com/
XML Sitemap Generator: https://www.xml-sitemaps.com/

Fuchsia Groan · Apr 24, 2018

I know the feeling, believe me. I've scrapped over 100k words attempting to make my current project work. Oh boy, does it hurt, but eventually the excitement of trying new pathways overcomes the disappointment. After all, it's not like you're scrapping million-dollar movie sets and effects sequences. They're just words, and you have so many more in you.

For me, some projects work right away, and others are slow or dead ends. Hard to predict which will be which. I've done some study of three-act structure and the like, and outlining helps, but I don't believe there's a single foolproof formula unless you want to write formulaic fiction. Many (most?) writers are going to have multiple drafts and delete many words. Some of my favorite authors — quite successful ones — claim to do just that.

Meanwhile, you've done what you needed to do: get honest feedback and take it seriously. That's a scary and crucial step for any writer, so you should give yourself credit for it before taking a scythe to those words. It'll be easier than you may think to find new ones.

Maggie Maxwell · Apr 24, 2018

Too many characters? No central antagonist. Gosh, that sounds like the wildly popular and successful Game of Thrones series to me.

My point is, aside from the plot issue, none of those issues are really and truly issues. my advice: keep going. It's easy to get stuck in rewriting over and over and never actually finish. You can spend years studying and never get anywhere. The best thing you can do for yourself and your writing is finish the book. Then write another one. Read a lot, both for fun and for study. Write a third. Writing is a muscle. The more you work it, the better it functions. The first one will probably not be as good as you think it is when you write it. But by the time you can see that, you'll be better prepared to go in for a new attempt, and you'll have the whole story as a base to work off of. Writing and rewriting the same story over and over can just bog you down and dishearten you. Happens to good writers every day. Keep going with the many characters and if you want to change the plot or make characters stop existing, go ahead, even if it doesn't mesh with the 22k you have. You can edit or rewrite later.

Look at it like this: everything needs editing. You're going to have to edit and rewrite that 22k anyway. So why do it now when the rest of the story is waiting for you to finish it?

Enlightened · Apr 24, 2018

Some books that are worthy to look into. If you have a local, public library, see if you can get an ebook (or hardcopy) for free, first. If not, try your college library (if you are in college, or graduated).

The many thesauri of Ackerman and Puglisi:

Story by Robert McKee

Check your local, public library's website for various ebook subjects. You'll be surprised what you can find. I think the thesauri will help the most, but that's after you learn how to write.

Sanderson teaches you sell skill. You have to know the requirements agents and publishers demand to make a sale.

Justobuddies · Apr 24, 2018

thelearnedfox said:
Greetings all. I hope some of you can identify with this, as it has been extremely frustrating, but I am in the process of writing my first SF novel at the age of 27. I was in love with the setting and tone of where I was going and had an outline that made sense (at least to me) but after some sage advice from those closest to me, I started to re-examine what I had already written. Too many characters, a lackluster plot with some high points, and no central antagonist for the reader to rally against, I felt really dejected. I was already 22,000 words in which in nothing compared to the volume that some people write, I'm sure. But it was *my* 22,000 words and I was already dreading going back and scrapping most of it to start fresh. I know in my head it is the right thing to do and I've already crafted a new, tighter outline but am having trouble staying motivated. Firstly, I want to write because I enjoy it; storytelling is fascinating and engaging to me. Secondly, and more in line with flights-of-fancy, I want it to become mega-popular so I can become rich and famous and just write all the time (doesn't everyone?). Thanks all for hearing me bemoan my situation. As I wrap up this pity party I will try again to start with fresh eyes and fingers for typing.
Best to all,
thelearnedfox

If you love your setting and your tone, keep writing in your setting and your tone. These things can sometimes be hard to get settled and if you've already found the zone don't give up on it.

Kindly thank your sage friends for their advice. Only apply the things that make sense for YOUR story. IF you have too many characters that aren't working, that can be revised later after you determine they really don't serve the story. You can rewrite them out, combine them into other characters, or they can function like a Star Trek red shirt to give that sense of danger. As Maggie said, a story doesn't necessarily need a central antagonist as a character, especially if all the characters are shades of grey, or if your engaging in a man vs environment story line.

New tighter outline is great, these 22k words may have just been notes adding depth and breadth to your universe...or maybe you can intertwine all of your characters into your new tighter outline. But mostly, keep plugging away on something you love, even if you realize 50k words in it's boring and not going anywhere, when you get to 75k words and it all starts to flow and the pace suddenly makes sense you keep going. Finally you'll have 150k of words that need cut back down to 75k, and you'll easily know what needs cut, what needs shored up and where to add all of Checkov's guns.

Keep going! You CAN do this :e2cheer:

thelearnedfox · Apr 24, 2018

@Enlightened
Thank you for this wealth of information. I will try to maximize it's usefulness!

@all others
I'm overwhelmed with these extremely helpful and encouraging responses from you all. Thank you so much for this shot in the arm.

Enlightened · Apr 24, 2018

My pleasure. Don't let these information sources consume your time is my best piece of advice. Good luck!

Lakey · Apr 24, 2018

I am also working on a first novel. I once remarked to a friend that I fully expect to write at least three times as many words as will appear in the final manuscript.

I have to remind myself of having said that at times when I feel frustrated or humiliated or terribly discouraged (as I've been the last couple of weeks). There have been times in the process when I've scrapped entire chapters and started them over. I'm about to do it again, with the chapter I've been struggling with for the past few weeks. There are entire chapters that I thought were okay when I wrote them that will also need to be stripped down nearly to the bones and rebuilt. It's part of the process of getting better at this. And some days, I can even believe that I am getting better at it.

When I was halfway through the thing, I made some changes to a main character's life circumstances that completely overhauled her story arc. Instead of going back to the beginning, I decided to keep going forward as though I had already rewritten the first half of the book. I had a feeling that if I went back and started over, I'd never reach the end. So I just kept going. Now, I have 86,000 words down, and only about 3 chapters to go.

And when I get to the end, it will be a major overhaul and revision of the whole manuscript - not just of the first half. And I'm looking forward to it with delight, because I have learned so much in the process that I am itching to go apply to making my manuscript better.

In sum: I suggest that you keep writing. Don't start over. Write to your outline, and if things change in your outline, then write to your new outline, until you get to the end. Then you will have a whole novel manuscript to revise. And that's a pretty amazing achievement in itself.

thelearnedfox · Apr 24, 2018

@Lakey
Thanks for the advice!

Calla Lily · Apr 24, 2018

What everyone else said, plus a story from my own experience:

I rewrote my first book five times. It was my learning curve. I wrote and sold another book while still on rewrite five of the first book. At last I changed a major detail in the ending and that was the turning point. I finally sold it. It's the bottom book in my sigline.

Never give up. Never surrender. :greenie

Richard White · Apr 24, 2018

<disclaimer>This advice is not for everyone because everyone has their own method that works for them (hence, this is not engraved in stone tablets being handed down from on high) </disclaimer>

My personal theory is "Write to the end and then edit."

Why?

Because no matter how good an outline (and I am an outliner) and not matter how great you open your book, it's going to morph somewhere between "Once upon a time..." and "The End".

Accept that.

Until your future editor hands it off to the printer, everything about your work can/may/probably will be edited. Given that concept, push on to the end. If you find you're veering greatly from the opening of the story, make notes to yourself, highlight what's changed, and keep pushing on. OR, you may find by the end of the book, your opening really worked but it's the middle that's flabby and needs shaping up, or maybe your Uber-villain turns out to be the protagonist's best ally and his/her best friend was actually the real villain all along. Honestly, your characters may change attitudes, looks, or even names as you think of better stuff as you go along.

This is legal. No one is going to throw a penalty flag and penalize you fifteen pages for unnecessary verbiage.

I fully believe that the first draft is just that. A draft. It's the editing phase where the writer makes their money. Can you take this unshapely pile of clay and work it into the most exquisite vase in the world? Well, you can't if you don't have clay (aka the first draft).

So, if you feel you need to start over, then go for it. If it's really unsalvageable at the moment, then gird your loins, take up your spear and shield, and hie thee unto the word processor and start over. But this time, don't stop until you hit "The End".

Then edit the HELL out of it -- as many times as necessary.

We now return you to your normal programming already in progress. *grin*

Enlightened · Apr 24, 2018

Richard: Very well said; thank you for sharing!

konstantineblacke · Apr 24, 2018

Keep writing! If you are in the zone, run with it! Don't forget to read a lot as well (in your favoured genre and others as well). I find nothing inspires me more than reading. Keep going! You can do it

RaggyCat · Apr 25, 2018

Keep writing! From the sounds of things these are common mistakes all of us make, and you need to fight through them, difficult though it seems. Part of writing (actually, a very large programme) is spotting problems, then resolving them - there is no such thing as a book that doesn't need editing.

To share an anecdote from my experience: with the first novel I attempted to write I got to chapter 26 before realising I didn't really know what I was doing, and I'd written myself into a hole (I thought it was brilliant before that). So I scrapped it and rewrote, and I enjoyed rewriting because I knew my characters and story so much better. Rewriting doesn't have to be a chore, it can be very rewarding. Good luck and don't be discouraged - this is all part of the course of writing a novel.

Girlsgottawrite · Apr 26, 2018

thelearnedfox said:
Greetings all. I hope some of you can identify with this, as it has been extremely frustrating, but I am in the process of writing my first SF novel at the age of 27. I was in love with the setting and tone of where I was going and had an outline that made sense (at least to me) but after some sage advice from those closest to me, I started to re-examine what I had already written. Too many characters, a lackluster plot with some high points, and no central antagonist for the reader to rally against, I felt really dejected. I was already 22,000 words in which in nothing compared to the volume that some people write, I'm sure. But it was *my* 22,000 words and I was already dreading going back and scrapping most of it to start fresh. I know in my head it is the right thing to do and I've already crafted a new, tighter outline but am having trouble staying motivated. Firstly, I want to write because I enjoy it; storytelling is fascinating and engaging to me. Secondly, and more in line with flights-of-fancy, I want it to become mega-popular so I can become rich and famous and just write all the time (doesn't everyone?). Thanks all for hearing me bemoan my situation. As I wrap up this pity party I will try again to start with fresh eyes and fingers for typing.
Best to all,
thelearnedfox

This is probably the hardest and most important part of the the process. You have to be able to cut out whole sections of writing if they're not helping the story. It sucks - especially when you've worked so hard and love what you've written, but that's what's going to make your book better.

I always save any cut text in a separate document so I can use or reinsert parts if needed. That's made it a lot easier for me cause I know it's not lost forever. Maybe that would help you too.

Good luck!

mafiaking1936 · Apr 29, 2018

You're off to a great start if it only took you 22k to learn these things- my first attempt took 8 years and a quarter million words before I realized it was a completely unworkable mess. I still love those characters and the (partial) story, but I got so far in I had to scrap it and start over from scratch. Keep it up!

neurotype · Apr 29, 2018

I have a rule not to share work with anyone until I have a completed draft. First drafts always suck, and they're really there for you to exhaust all the crap before you can hone what the story's really meant to be. This can take many, many drafts. So while you're crit buddies are probably right, what you should really focus on is getting out SOMETHING complete and THEN making an assessment of what you have. I finished a book 7 years ago, thought it was amazing, realized it wasn't, and now 8 years later I've got it revamped and almost ready to query. But I still used pellets of what I had in that first draft that were interesting to me. You just never know what may come out in that first draft that will become a foundation for the book it will ultimately become.

KayMitch · May 3, 2018

This might just be me, but I always finish the story before I even think about a rewrite or edit or anything of the like. I like to let a story progress naturally as my characters see fit (because lets be honest I have no control of them, I'm just their way of communicating). Once the story is done I go back over it with a broad comb, and then a fine toothed comb. Once the story is in place, things can be changed, reworked, rewritten, and bettered, without losing what you love about the story in the first place.

VFStorm · May 5, 2018

thelearnedfox said:
Greetings all. I hope some of you can identify with this, as it has been extremely frustrating, but I am in the process of writing my first SF novel at the age of 27. I was in love with the setting and tone of where I was going and had an outline that made sense (at least to me) but after some sage advice from those closest to me, I started to re-examine what I had already written. Too many characters, a lackluster plot with some high points, and no central antagonist for the reader to rally against, I felt really dejected. I was already 22,000 words in which in nothing compared to the volume that some people write, I'm sure. But it was *my* 22,000 words and I was already dreading going back and scrapping most of it to start fresh. I know in my head it is the right thing to do and I've already crafted a new, tighter outline but am having trouble staying motivated. Firstly, I want to write because I enjoy it; storytelling is fascinating and engaging to me. Secondly, and more in line with flights-of-fancy, I want it to become mega-popular so I can become rich and famous and just write all the time (doesn't everyone?). Thanks all for hearing me bemoan my situation. As I wrap up this pity party I will try again to start with fresh eyes and fingers for typing.
Best to all,
thelearnedfox

Wow, good on you for getting to that point at 22k words! I wrote my first novel to the tune of 250k words. And then I cut it in half. And then I rewrote the entirety of part 1 to be its own completely restructured book 1, and am working on part 2 to be book 2. Best decision ever made; it made a wet rag into something that makes me proud just to open the document, but it took 3 years to restructure that first book into something meaningful. Yeeaarrss. You can do this! If you loved 'em enough to get to 22k, you'll love 'em enough to get through another 22k!

For me, staying motivated is a two-part course. One, write as often as possible (for you). Don't fall prey to the I write 5 billion words a day and you wrote 12 thing -- if you can't write, think about writing and make it as meaningful as actually sitting down to write. I tend to take a piece of the narrative with me in my head as I go about my day, and try to understand why it's not strong enough/working for me. By the time I get back to my computer, I have a whole host of ideas to try out. I also don't write chronologically. If I'm in a bad mood, I pour every wisp of anger in me into a fight scene. If I'm feeling sad, someone's getting betrayed today. When my best friend, a.k.a. my dog, died, I rewrote every single death scene in the novel just to find places to put my words of raw grief. By the time I had run out of 'emotional scenes', I had 2 scenes left to rework in the entire novel. And I immediately trashed them, because what kind of scene doesn't have emotion in it? D: Process of elimination is a wonderful thing!

A collection of playlists that I've carefully built up over the years has been helpful too. One for fights, one for melancholy, one for epic triumph, etc. I mean, because the thing is -- while I wrote 250k words, and then chopped it all up, rewrote the manuscript, and then rewrote the revised thing about 20 times, it needed to be done. 250k become a sleek, fast-paced 121k ms that was an irreplaceable learning experience for me, even if I never find a home for it. That's a daunting challenge, but passion and/or discipline will see you through to the end. Cultivating one or the other is a writer's best friend, in my opinion, and surrounding yourself in the things that remind you of why you want to be dedicated is a great way to go. Kind of like gym buffs and their mirrors, or dieters and pictures of Beyoncé. Keep AW and a playlist open in the background, refresh purpose as needed.

You can do it!

Emily Patrice · May 5, 2018

I concur with those saying just keep writing.

You're writing a first draft. Doesn't have to be perfect, or even very good. It can be dreck. But if you're enthusiastic about it, just keep going. Drop some characters if you feel you have too many -- just stop mentioning them and add a note to yourself to write them out of the early chapters. The plot doesn't have to make sense in a first draft.

I've written stories in many different ways, and I truly believe that what matters is enthusiasm right now for the story you want to tell right now. Worrying about your writing, over-plotting, over-preparing, or submitting for critique too early, can all kill the creative process.

The editing stage is where you can look to fix things. Forget about that for now. And, yes, that means many of your words will be wasted. I've written at least 2.5 million words, published about 200K and am hoping to publish another 700K. The rest will never see the light of day, but I learned something new with every word I wrote.

Sanderson · May 6, 2018

VFStorm said:
I also don't write chronologically. If I'm in a bad mood, I pour every wisp of anger in me into a fight scene. If I'm feeling sad, someone's getting betrayed today. When my best friend, a.k.a. my dog, died, I rewrote every single death scene in the novel just to find places to put my words of raw grief.

I love the idea of this approach - I have to give it a try. I've always written chronologically in the past, to not much success, and I agree so much with you about the importance of emotion in each scene.
Thanks!

D.L. Shepherd · May 6, 2018

I totally understand how you feel! I have two books that I completely trunked due to advice and comments early on during drafting...one at 15K and one at a whopping 50K.

As others have said above, I now have a rule that I won't even tell people *what* I am writing about, other than the genre! For me, I find that it's best to keep my ideas to myself, because often they aren't even fully formed until I get to the second draft and I change a lot around anyway all on my own. I'm a panster, and find outlines to be frustrating.

I do let others read my work and give input before querying, but the only person who has any idea what my novels are about in the early stages is my husband, and he holds off on criticism until I ask him for it later on. Others won't get to take a sneak peek until around the fourth or fifth draft, when I already feel it is pretty polished. Only then am I open to suggestions about changing or tweaking things, and I always keep in mind who is giving me that advice and how much they know about publishing (or how much they read in my genre), before taking their advice to heart.

So I say, keep the advice in the back of your head, if you like, but plow forward and finish the first draft. And if you do change things, don't trash the original. You might still pull some of what you had in the first draft, or move it around for better flow later on. Like you said, you want writing to be fun. The first draft, IMO, should be. The hard work will come later, so you might as well enjoy it while you are writing just for you.

The great re-write nightmare

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