Descriptions in third-person limited

IanConrey · Apr 23, 2018

Good morning, this is my first post so if I've missed a thread that already deals with this, I apologize! I've spent most of my time writing non-fiction (mostly blogs for a seminary), but for the past four years I've been working on a lengthy standalone novel. As of right now it's at roughly 160,000 words (i'm about 3/4 of the way finished) and deals with multiple character pov's. It's written in a mixture of third person limited and an omnipresent third-person narrative (It's a bit of a mess, and I wasn't really aware of the rules when I started). However, I've recently realized the confusion of this and how much "head hopping" i've been doing. Because of that, my taste has been changing to limited third-person narration, using only one pov at a time per scene. So I've undertaken the task of rewriting my novel to fit that narration. It's not as difficult as it sounds since I basically followed that principle anyway (minus the head hopping and occasional "narrators voice" breaking in), but I am struggling with descriptions. For example, one of my characters is only nine years old. I know to describe the setting by showing it through his perspective, but should I filter it to the way he would understand it? In other words, should I describe certain settings using words that are bigger than he would use, or should I keep it simple so that his scene has a distinct feel? I'm afraid if I go too far with this, each scene will sound like a different book, but if I don't do it at all, each scene will sound the same and the characters might come off as bland. Any suggestions would be great! Thank you!

Ian

Bufty · Apr 23, 2018

Only describe that which the POV character specifically notices or which catches his attention in whatever emotional frame of mind or situation he is in. Whether things always need to be described in detail is doubtful but depends upon the situation.

Simply 'mentioning' whatever it is in passing is probably sufficient in many cases.

You don't need to 'dumb down' the narrative for a nine-year-old POV. Just avoid the opposite - using language which would jar and obviously not be used by a nine-year-old.

Use common-sense, plain language, careful word choice and aim for flow and clarity.

And Welcome - :welcome:

Harlequin · Apr 23, 2018

It is a book for adults with a nine year old protagonist, or a book for children with a nine year old protagonist?

Congrats on finishing your novel, btw. Welcome to the joy of revision.**

**For a given value of "joy"

indianroads · Apr 23, 2018

I've not tried using a young MC - and suggest you look at the first chapter of "IT" by Stephen King, so you can see how someone who knows how to do it does it.

I would suggest clearly establishing that the MC in that particular scene or chapter is nine years old before the description starts out, then I would do it in the words and perceptions of someone that age.

blacbird · Apr 23, 2018

As nobody has mentioned it yet: READ. Read some books narrated in a style similar to yours, and pay attention to how other writers do this. It's a very common narrative craft situation.

caw

Calder · Apr 23, 2018

"It's a bit of a mess, and I wasn't really aware of the rules when I started"

IMHO the greatest risk to your writing is encapsulated in this. Basically, there are no rules. Write what you want, as you want, in your own voice and, even if there are "rules", remember that they are made to be broken.

blacbird · Apr 23, 2018

Calder said:
even if there are "rules", remember that they are made to be broken.

No, they are not. They are made to be paid attention to. Not knowing the rules, and violating them randomly out of ignorance, is a sure recipe for a crap narrative. The "rules" came to be not because of some dictatorial imposition, but because the facilitate clarity in written communication. If you are going to contravene them, you need to have a good reason, understand what your are doing, and make that intention clear to the reader within the context of your narrative. There's a lot of room for experiment, but ignorance isn't a virtue.

caw

Girlsgottawrite · Apr 23, 2018

blacbird said:
No, they are not. They are made to be paid attention to. Not knowing the rules, and violating them randomly out of ignorance, is a sure recipe for a crap narrative. The "rules" came to be not because of some dictatorial imposition, but because the facilitate clarity in written communication. If you are going to contravene them, you need to have a good reason, understand what your are doing, and make that intention clear to the reader within the context of your narrative. There's a lot of room for experiment, but ignorance isn't a virtue.

caw

This definitely!

Food for thought, in case you haven't already been told, 160,000 words is really long, especially at 3/4 the way through. Either you're going to need to make huge cuts (which may be a good thing) or you'll want to break it into two books. Agents have pretty strict length restrictions for first novels. Some won't even look at it if it's too long or too short. 80,000-100,000 words is a fairly good range. You can get away with a little more in fantasy.

As for the POV, I think you've gotten some good advice. I agree that you shouldn't dumb down the language or it will read as false.

Just an idea...Do you know any nine-year-olds? It might help to have them read that chapter or some of the dialogue. If the language isn't working, it might be more obvious when you hear it read by a kid.

Quinn_Inuit · Apr 24, 2018

blacbird said:
No, they are not. They are made to be paid attention to. Not knowing the rules, and violating them randomly out of ignorance, is a sure recipe for a crap narrative. The "rules" came to be not because of some dictatorial imposition, but because the facilitate clarity in written communication. If you are going to contravene them, you need to have a good reason, understand what your are doing, and make that intention clear to the reader within the context of your narrative. There's a lot of room for experiment, but ignorance isn't a virtue.

caw

This could not be more correct. I recommend paying attention. Whenever I break a major rule, I do so only after careful consideration and developing a backup plan (in case an editor later redlines it).

IanConrey · Apr 26, 2018

Girlsgottawrite said:
This definitely!

Food for thought, in case you haven't already been told, 160,000 words is really long, especially at 3/4 the way through. Either you're going to need to make huge cuts (which may be a good thing) or you'll want to break it into two books. Agents have pretty strict length restrictions for first novels. Some won't even look at it if it's too long or too short. 80,000-100,000 words is a fairly good range. You can get away with a little more in fantasy.

As for the POV, I think you've gotten some good advice. I agree that you shouldn't dumb down the language or it will read as false.

Just an idea...Do you know any nine-year-olds? It might help to have them read that chapter or some of the dialogue. If the language isn't working, it might be more obvious when you hear it read by a kid.

First, thank you everyone for the advice. I'm taking them all to heart. As to the length, it was originally going to be two books, and it may be able to still be divided. However, to me at least, every chapter is critical and cutting out will only lessen its momentum and character development. I'm sure others who read may have a better insight though. My biggest priority is not getting it published. I would like for that, but I just want to write a meaningful story. Anyway, maybe self-publishing would be an option one day. Thanks again!

Descriptions in third-person limited

IanConrey

Bufty

Where have the last ten years gone?

Harlequin

Eat books, not brains!

indianroads

Wherever I go, there I am.

blacbird

Calder

blacbird

Girlsgottawrite

I write at work...

Quinn_Inuit

Not a real eskimo

IanConrey