Sprawling Plot

Yeah right now you're just creating the word salad, later you'll turn it into an entrée. Push through, you can do it!

120 chapters in a single book? That's a bit too much. I used to write eighty-chapter books, ten pages per chapter, but that was before I knew about word-count guidelines. I think if you write a 120-chapter book, odds are most of it is going to end up cut anyway, because you're going to have to cut a lot. I don't know. I mean I have read 120-chapter books, but they're usually two to four pages long. 110,000 words are 20% of the book? I can't wait to see how big that book's gonna be.

Danielle Steel writes whatever however long it gets for x number of months, then cuts out the best parts. Ditto Sidney Sheldon. That's what I did. My first draft was 172K words with 100 chapters. Now it's 103K with just over 60 chapters.

Yeah, I just realized that such a feat is a lot of chapters. I had not stopped to consider that before.

Still, if they're short it can work. CindyT gave a similar enlightening example.

Split it into a series. That's what I did when my story ballooned out. It also gives you more chances to market it.

Cindyt said:

Danielle Steel writes whatever however long it gets for x number of months, then cuts out the best parts. Ditto Sidney Sheldon. That's what I did.

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So you cut the best parts out your story?

I'm in the middle of a similar problem, myself. 130K YA Urban Fantasy (though that's not exactly a hard label. Maybe NA? Maybe A? Maybe I'll be stuck in an indecisive loop forever?) that I need to cut down to 110K and I cannot bring myself to cut a n y t h i n g. It's so frustrating and difficult to decide what to cut, because EVERYTHING seems relevant to the characters and the plot!!!

My advice would be to take a look at the original outline and in a separate document (so you can compare and contrast), plot out what you've actually written in a similar format. Analyze both of them and see what enhances the plot and what doesn't. It can help you figure out where you might have gotten lost along the way and how to get back to the original journey. Ultimately, you may have to move the beginning of the story to a different part and put most of the extra flavoring in as backstory to get the ball rolling.

I understand how hard it is to see where the problems are until they've been written, so if you need to write the whole thing and heavily edit, then do it. Your plotting will be your friend no matter which route you take. And you might consider changing something big/ish in the plot to move things along faster. A big chunk of my extra stuff was the fact that some characters spent most of the book trying to figure out the specifics of a prophecy--I changed it so that one of them has known about it all along, and the other begins to figure it out waaaayyy earlier. Doing that helped a lot in cutting out some of the word count and in getting rid of unnecessary passages/plot points that I may have loved, but didn't really need.

If you aren't completely married to the one book idea, consider a series. I would recommend peppering in backstory with the main journey rather than first book as backstory, second book as the start of the journey, but you know the specifics of your plot and world better so it's your call. But, if you can figure out how to do a satisfactory series with what you have written and what you will write, go for it. You'll definitely get more time to play with the characters and the world than with one book.

Good luck!!

ilindsay said:

I'm in the middle of a similar problem, myself. 130K YA Urban Fantasy (though that's not exactly a hard label. Maybe NA? Maybe A? Maybe I'll be stuck in an indecisive loop forever?) that I need to cut down to 110K and I cannot bring myself to cut a n y t h i n g. It's so frustrating and difficult to decide what to cut, because EVERYTHING seems relevant to the characters and the plot!!!

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I'd bet you could cut 20,000 words just by trimming verbiage. I have had to get 135,000 down to 100,000 and was able to do that by eliminating a single chapter (~3000 words) that I decided was superfluous, and the rest just by cutting words, phrases, sentences that were likewise unnecessary, and by restructuring other sentences that were just wordy. Look hard at such seemingly "little" things.

caw

NA isn't really a thing anymore, and only existed for romance.

If in doubt, aim for YA. But that does mean a lower wordcount. Maybe post up an excerpt in SYW when you get 50 posts? As a whole, the forum posters are decent at hacking and trimming for you.

Can you streamline the convolution - maybe by breaking it into separate stories told over a series of books ? A lot of concurrent stuff going on (I'm talking excessive multiple story lines) can make your work very hard to follow. I suggest you streamline as much as you can.

My strategy is to draw actual lines. Like time lines, label each one and the points on the line are where the lines meet story objectives. Trim out the ones that cause problems or go on too long. Marry the ones that work for you, divorce yourself from the ones that don't.

Example:

Main story arc: Call to action ---- Obstacle 1----subplot 1-----Obstacle 2----subplot 2----Crisis----Resolution

Subplot 1: Call to action sub 1---- obstacle sub 1a ---- (obstacle sub 1b, etc if needed) ---- Resolution sub 1

Subplot 2: Call to action sub 2---- obstacle sub 2a ---- Crisis sub 2---- Resolution sub 2

Combined story arc:

Call to action ---- Obstacle 1----Call to action sub 1---- obstacle sub 1a ---- obstacle sub 1b ---- Resolution sub 1 ----- Obstacle 2---- Call to action sub 2---- obstacle sub 2a ---- obstacle sub 2b ---- Resolution sub 2---- Crisis ---- Resolution

You can re-order however you like to keep track if you want subplots to be resolved in a non-linear order.

If you find that it's too confusing to pack into an easily readable format like this, then you should probably withhold some of it for another book.

As everyone else has said, 110k is more than enough for a single book! If you go by the rough rule of thumb that 30k = 100 pages, then you're already at about 360 pages. The average fiction book comes in at about 300, so if what you have is actually 20% then your total output would be [pause while computer does the maths] 550k or over 1800 pages! Even dividing that into individual books, you've got 5 or six volumes. Fantasy and sci-fi tend to be longer books, because you have to build a world, but even if this is the genre you're working in, this is still a multi-volume series.

I guess the other issue you have here is that multi-volume stories tend not to be simply sections of one big story. Each book will have its own themes, its own points of interest and resolution. People need to enjoy each book for its own sake, not merely as part of one big epic tale.

However, I would suspect, as you've said, that you'll end up jettisoning a lot of what you've written. As the saying has it, the major part of writing is re-writing. All this will change when you get to the end. You will then be able to look at the whole thing differently - which bits are filler, which are interesting but unnecessary tangents that can be sacrificed in the name of pacing and entertainment.

I'd just like to affirm the idea to write it out and then cut, cut cut!

It seems like good advice.

Just my two cents!

I would need advice from beta readers on what to cut. My first drafts are always monstrous. Twelve years ago, I used to write 250,000-word first drafts, before I discovered these forums and knew anything about word-count guidelines.

kelzey2 said:

I say write it all then figure out what to do.

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Great quote! I think it REALLY fits here!

BethS said:

So you cut the best parts out your story?

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Of course not. I should have said she cuts the bad, but that's is not what she said nor Sidney Sheldon.

Elianne said:

Hello everyone! I was hoping to pick your brains on an issue I've been struggling with i.e. convoluted plot lines. Now, I'm a plantser but for the novel I'm writing - sprawling world, huge cast - I decided that the best way forward was to write a plot and mark out when major events happen and where each of the MCs happen to be at. My problem? My plot consists of around 120 chapters for the 1st book. I've written about 20% of that and have already hit the 110k word mark.

My question is simple: If you were in my position, would you pause the writing and take a deep hard look at the plot before moving forward or just proceed with writing the story (all 120 chapters) before doing an extremely brutal edit? Bearing in mind that I do even with the plot written out, I do allow for flexibility - the characters still do things that surprise me, events happen that weren't in the original plot - but the general direction in which the story and the whole cast is moving towards remains the same. It frustrates me because I'm aware of what a SF novel length normally is; with my word count, I should already be wrapping the story up but right now, my cast has barely begun their journey! And if I continue at this rate, I'll need to look at cutting around 80% of what I'll have written!

Would love to hear your thoughts. Thank you!

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I have a similar problem. Only it's 2 stories from basically the same "world" that over the years has merged into one huge story, with, currently, more than 200 characters.
My solution? Write the whole thing down into one big draft, see what I can prune down, then chop it up into separate books, making adjustments where need to have appropriate ending for each book.

Simple, right? ( Yeah, that's sarcasm. I just started writing )

Cindyt said:

Of course not. I should have said she cuts the bad, but that's is not what she said nor Sidney Sheldon.

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So what she really meant was that she saves the best parts?

BethS said:

So what she really meant was that she saves the best parts?

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That's what I thought she meant. Write it all down, the good, the bad, the background, and then save the 'good' bits. I would think if you're the kind of writer who likes to experiment, or write out all the details and the background, just to make them clear in your mind, this might work well, if you don't mind the wasted time/words.

Which aren't wasted if they help you get clarity, and if you save them for later re-use.

Aside from obvious candidates in the fantasy field, there are some in sci-fi and space opera as well.
If you check out David Wingrove's Chung Kuo series, or Kevin&Herbert's continuation of the Dune saga, you'll see how mega-hyper-sprawling plots are made to work over any number of fat books.

BethS said:

So what she really meant was that she saves the best parts?

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Yes.

This is me right now too. What started out as a single novel is now 300k long and nowhere near finished. The ending is nowhere near in sight and I have some rather huge gaps in the middle. I'm very aware that a lot will be shaved away in editing...but the further I get it's becoming obvious I cannot do the story and the major characters justice in one book. So, for now, I'm plugging away, bashing out first drafts of scenes and editing a little as I go, whilst also keeping in mind that a lot may end up in another book.

anaemic_mind said:

This is me right now too. What started out as a single novel is now 300k long and nowhere near finished. The ending is nowhere near in sight and I have some rather huge gaps in the middle. I'm very aware that a lot will be shaved away in editing...but the further I get it's becoming obvious I cannot do the story and the major characters justice in one book. So, for now, I'm plugging away, bashing out first drafts of scenes and editing a little as I go, whilst also keeping in mind that a lot may end up in another book.

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Yeah, I feel your pain.

I am writing a mystery/thriller/space opera and have an unfortunate tendency to put too many plates in the air that I must now keep spinning.

What the hell. I have made my peace with it being a training exercise and at least I have an ending in mind that I like. Once I have my first draft done, I shall be in need of a pair of pruning shears. No matter how I trim, however, it seems that I have unwittingly written a trilogy.

Elianne said:

Hello everyone! I was hoping to pick your brains on an issue I've been struggling with i.e. convoluted plot lines. Now, I'm a plantser but for the novel I'm writing - sprawling world, huge cast - I decided that the best way forward was to write a plot and mark out when major events happen and where each of the MCs happen to be at. My problem? My plot consists of around 120 chapters for the 1st book. I've written about 20% of that and have already hit the 110k word mark.

My question is simple: If you were in my position, would you pause the writing and take a deep hard look at the plot before moving forward or just proceed with writing the story (all 120 chapters) before doing an extremely brutal edit? Bearing in mind that I do even with the plot written out, I do allow for flexibility - the characters still do things that surprise me, events happen that weren't in the original plot - but the general direction in which the story and the whole cast is moving towards remains the same. It frustrates me because I'm aware of what a SF novel length normally is; with my word count, I should already be wrapping the story up but right now, my cast has barely begun their journey! And if I continue at this rate, I'll need to look at cutting around 80% of what I'll have written!

Would love to hear your thoughts. Thank you!

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What's happening in the 110k? Is it backstory? Meet and greet? Because if the story has just started... I'm a bit confused on what could be taking 110k words to say? You basically already have a novel in your hands, so yeah, I'd consider taking a hard look at your words and seeing where the story really needs to begin. What really needs to be said. I haven't done something so extravagant as your 110k, but I had written 35k for a novel before realizing I had everything wrong and rewrote the entire thing. That was about 30% into the novel. Sometime's it's beneficial to check yourself every once and a while.