Writing very young children

lonestarlibrarian said:

The things that do stand out are in things like their different priorities-- #1's first words were things like "mama" and "dada" and things like that. #2's first words were things like, "Mine" and "No" and stuff. So there's a definite difference between writing an only child, versus writing a child with siblings!

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Maybe this is a standard thing: according to my mother, my younger sister and I (eldest) were the same way - I was "Mumma" and "Daddy" and her first word was "No". Followed by "Mine". That was how she got her first Barbie - latched onto my birthday present and refused to let go, shouting "Mine! Mineminemine!" until the folks gave in and got her one of her own.

Perhaps this is the usual thing? After all, before we have siblings, everything is 'ours' - no need for two categories.

I think it's also parental involvement. With a first kid, parents have no one else to focus on, and every 'first' is a huge deal, so they spend a lot of time all, 'can you say mama?' By the time a second kid comes along and most people have a small kid running around, there's not time to spend coaxing like that, nor does it seem to hold the same level of import.

Same as how most first kids have giant albums, baby books all filled out, etc., while each kid down the line has thinner and thinner volumes and more gaps in the baby books. A friend of mine had first kid, everyone came to visit, doted on parents and baby, they spent time bonding, eating food people brought over.... by the third kid in five years, kid was born on Saturday and Monday was parked in a stroller on sidelines of her older sibling's dance class because, well, dance class, shrug.

For sure! I figured out pretty quickly-- that's why babies have to grow so fast! So that they can keep up with their older siblings!

But I also noticed on the parental end of things, I was more likely to ask DS1 to do age-inappropriate things that perhaps he wasn't quite developmentally ready for, and I was more likely to err in the other direction, and allow DS2 to remain a baby longer, and not put obligations on him that he was able to handle. Because for DS1, I had no one to compare him to-- and so it falls into that whole "perceiving him as older" thing-- and for DS2, I had his big brother to compare him to-- and he was always "ooo, he's so small and cute!"

As the oldest of four, the big thing I picked up on as a kid was how strict my parents were with myself and my sister-- but by the time my two younger brothers came along, they had mellowed considerably. So, for example, bedtime was 8:00, but when I was in 3rd grade, I could stay up until 9 while my younger siblings went to bed at 8... but by the time my younger brothers were in school, everyone was staying up until 9 because it was too much of a hassle to maintain multiple bedtimes.

But I'd definitely say my younger siblings were doted on as babies/toddlers, for sure. Because they had all their older siblings to play with and do stuff with, plus all their older siblings' friends... We were military, so we moved a lot-- so we had to look internally for those solid relationships of people you could depend on. But with a family that spends 10, 20, 30 years in one place, I can see how there would be more external pulls, as everyone starts developing their own friends from their own peer group.

Emermouse said:

As for the couch cushion problem, just remember that while they can’t do a lot to drive the plot, their existence does have an impact on the other characters and will affect their thoughts and actions.

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A two year old can do a ton. They are in everything and want to be exploring. They do have adventures. I remember following my toddler up the steps to the toddler slide and then running back to the base of it.

Read some board books and picture books to see adventures for this age. Food is my favorite adventure. How does ice cream work? Ooh. Sticky. Cold. Yum. Gone. It's all new. It's all adventure.

Changes in routine bother some toddlers, but not others because everything is new and fascinating. How much does your character trust the world? This depends on how good the parents are. And that depends in part on sleep. Most two year olds sleep the night, but not all. Sleep deprived parents are struggling--search out details on this if it fits your story.

Consider also a toddler's view of the world. Stroller edges, legs of grownups, noises they can't turn around and see the source of, chairs, luggage.

Preparedness of the parents will come into play too. We did a short flight with my daughter before her third birthday. I had a backpack of favorite toys and games and books that were seat friendly. Favorite cars she picked for the trip. Play-do (not a good choice for a plane because it's kind of like plastique and may have been confiscated), and the like. Two-year-olds love TV. Elmo is a good friend. We also read about airplane rides.

We've been on boats (ferries) with young ones also. These are easier than planes. The kids can explore the deck. And many people bring their dogs. Our daughter had fun on both. Even nine hour car trips (with stops). I brought puppets and books for those. And there are naps too.

Two-year-olds can run around and play with things, but they can't really do much beyond that. They're growing and learning, but it would be hard to make up a whole book on those things. Toddlers can't cross the street by themselves or tie their own shoes, never mind developing intense friendships, carrying on passionate love affairs, or making major accomplishments that forever will change the course of their life and maybe human history as well.

Emermouse said:

Two-year-olds can run around and play with things, but they can't really do much beyond that. They're growing and learning, but it would be hard to make up a whole book on those things. Toddlers can't cross the street by themselves or tie their own shoes, never mind developing intense friendships, carrying on passionate love affairs, or making major accomplishments that forever will change the course of their life and maybe human history as well.

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Heh, I'm pretty sure I could write an entire novel from the perspective of my toddler. She's by no means a child genius...she's pretty average, but yanno, life is an adventure for her. Things which we adults take for granted are huge events. Going to the supermarket is an entire adventure, complete with excitement (the carts! The shiny packages! The free cake samples! Omg unicorn cakes in the display! Omg what are these little cups filled with!), heartbreak (WHAT DO YOU MEAN I'M NOT ALLOWED TO BUY EVERYTHING I TOUCH), the dark night of the soul (Oh god I am so tired and cranky everything is shit), and then hope (Ooohh the big people just bought me a froyo!), etc. It would be a very different book to one from the perspective of a 5yo, or a 25yo, but it's possible to write a story from a toddler's perspective.

Also, 2yos can and do develop intense friendships. Just try taking wee hippo's stuffed hippo from her and you will witness all the stages of grief. She also has fights with the stuffed hippo...I don't know how that happens though. She also had a love affair with a cute Japanese boy at her school, who then bit her on the arm (gah, an abusive relationship!), but oh, she still looooved her boyfriend, and was devastated when he moved back to Japan. This was like over six months ago and she still sometimes mentions his name.

Obviously there are tons of limitations, but I would hardly say they're not "doing much".

One of my greatest fears, when I was pregnant with my first, was that I was scared that I had this new person in my life and under my roof for the next 18-21 years... and he would be bored with me... and I would be bored with him... we'd just sit there and stare at each other...

That never happened.

But, kids are very much like dramatic scenery. Or seeing the Milky Way in the desert or at sea. Or the smell of a newborn baby. They're things that you have to experience for yourself, and any attempt at description is always going to come short. They're things that are most fully experienced when you're right in the middle of them--- an outsider looking in is never going to experience it as fully or as real-ly as that firsthand immersion experience.

And I think that's why, a lot of times, young kids get turned into props in stories that are invisible for 95% of the book, and only get trotted out when you need them for Plot Purposes. It would be like trying to write a Lady-in-Waiting, but only vaguely mentioning the Queen she serves when it's convenient, even though the LiW's life at court revolves around her Queen and is the whole purpose for being there. Just like taking care of small kids is a full-time occupation, and your life revolves around the small kids until they develop more independence. But whereas in real life, all the stuff in the middle is definitely an ongoing immersion experience, the reader is always going to be an outsider... and frequently, the author is, too. And my immersion with one of my kids isn't the same immersion that I had with another kid-- because they're individuals, not puppets. And so even if my own kids are different, how much more different is someone else's kids, who are raised with different values, different expectations, different priorities! So the experience never fully translates.

So I think that's one of the reasons why young kids are so hard to write--- because they're very much a "you had to be there" sort of thing.

But I'd disagree that they "can't really do much". I was amazed at how much my kids taught me about myself and my place in the universe. But those lessons would be more likely to be the foundation of a philosophical/theological textbook, rather than genre fiction.

I still quibble with some of what you guys have said, and I've probably screwed up somewhere with my small child character, but I always try to remember that her mere existence affects the thoughts and actions of the other characters and work from there.

There’s something to be said for how their independent behavior works morally in that kind of situation, too. I’ve worked with children between ages 2-5 for quite a while, and over the years if there’s one thing I’ve learned, it’s that they’re basically sociopaths. They lack empathy and restraint, compulsively lie, and need constant stimulation, just like sociopaths. That doesn’t mean they’re inherently bad, their brains just aren’t developed enough to really comprehend the idea of other people. They never consider how another kid might feel when they take a toy from them, they just see the toy, and they take it. Other people’s feelings just don’t show up on their radar. That’s one of the reasons the, “How would you like it?”, argument works so well for them. It’s the only way they can really get how another person feels.
Again, these characteristics don’t mean they won’t still do good things from time to time, they’ll just be doing them for different reasons. They’re at the first stage of moral development; meaning they avoid doing bad things for fear of being punished, and do good things in hopes of being rewarded.
Most kids show signs of sociopathy at early ages, but they move on from it as they develop a sense of empathy. This is the reason being 18 is a requirement for being diagnosed with anti-social personality disorders. By that time you’re brain should be more or less fully developed.
Of course this is generalization, as there are plenty of kids who are more morally developed than others. But if I had to sum up their behavior this would be it. The next time you’re trying to figure out how a child should act, ask yourself, “What would a really dumb sociopath do?” I’ve written a few stories doing this and it worked wonders.
I’d imagine in this kind of situation if the child gets upset, it’s gonna be a trial to get them under control. This is about the age where they start things just to see what will happen. Tantrums and meltdowns are very common, and in a confined space, it’s a recipe for disaster. Toddlers are likely to take out their anger on the things around them, especially if there are lots of strangers around and they feel restricted. Little kids know what makes you upset, and they’ll often do those things just to spite you when they have a tantrum. If making a scene makes their parents feel bad, they’ll do it.
Here’s a very good example of how a toddler thinks when they’re upset: http://hyperboleandahalf.blogspot.com/2010/10/god-of-cake.html
Super funny post too!

Anyway, hope this stuff helps. Good luck on your story!

An infant is luggage that needs attention every now and again. Feed them, change them. Take them out to play. Let them sleep, but not too much at the wrong time.

A toddler isn't. A toddler is like a high strung puppy. It might bite. And the attention needs are more constant. They know what they want and will manipulate whatever they can to get it. And what they want is your attention. This is why they'll be fine playing by themselves but act up and pester you the moment you get on the phone. Now your attention is on someone else and they plan to win that competition no matter what it takes. (The laundry you were doing was not competition.) And if something is interesting, well there is no impulse control, so they'll walk away.

However, strapped into a stroller with enough to distract their attention, they can also be luggage like. My favorite way to end a tantrum was to yell, "Look, a distraction," and point in a random direction.

I should point out that whole movies have been made about the actions of toddlers. Honey, I Shrunk the Kids. Boss Baby. (Not all are from the kid's POV.)

I’ve seen this post circulating on various sites. Maybe it will help some of you.

http://elumish.tumblr.com/post/173936405353/child-handling-for-the-childless-nurse

Emermouse said:

I’ve seen this post circulating on various sites. Maybe it will help some of you.

http://elumish.tumblr.com/post/173936405353/child-handling-for-the-childless-nurse

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That is brilliant. And it's so true about the stickers.

I have a funny story about stickers. I was teaching a year 11 class (age 15-16) comprised of a mixture of kids. Some were lovely kids who genuinely struggled with science. A few were kids whose grades were low because of spending their entire school careers being systematic trouble makers and not working. One of the boys in the class was definitely in the latter category. He was considered the toughest, most rebellious and most notorious kid in year 11. He was close to getting kicked out of school altogether (and it's extremely hard to get kicked out of state schools). I got sick of trying to get him to work. Armed with stickers, I went around, giving my attention to all the kids who were working, helping them, praising what they'd done well, and giving them stickers.

Mr tough guy: "Oi, Miss, where's my sticker?"

Me: "I can't give you a sticker. You haven't done any work."

At which point Mr tough guy started doing the work. Like actually reading at the text book and doing the actual work I'd set. Gobsmacked, I gave him a sticker. He worked and behaved well for the rest of the lesson. Years later, I'm still gobsmacked.



cultural note: "Sir" and "Miss" is traditionally considered the right way to address teachers over here. It's old-fashioned but there's no tone of insolence in it. Kids say it like it's the teacher's first name. Some female teachers will choose to require kids not to call them "Miss" but I wasn't terribly bothered by it.

Further note: I'm thinking of possibly starting a thread in this section to find out how familiar people from the USA are with the British education system, because previous experience of getting critiques on stories where stuff happens in school, there are a few differences in terminology and school culture that trip people up.

I have a child of the age you're asking about and I have travelled long-distance...just not at the same time! xD

The first thing I thought of was the jet-lag. The jet-lag was an absolute killer for me on my own, so trying to deal with it AND a toddler...oh man. That's why I'm not going to Aus any time soon . Another thing would be the plane...trying to occupy a child of that age for so long on a plane. Toddlers need routine and, on a plane, everything is going to be different. The food, the surroundings, the people, even the smell. All the things you usually have on demand (dolls, Moana, apples, if you're my child...) are either not there or in short supply.
From a writing point of view, I would also be interested in people's reactions to said children. Some people can't stand the idea of a child on a plane (me) whereas some smile and are quite accommodating (also me).

I haven't reached potty-training, so can't comment on that. Food is a fun game. Some days my baby likes her dinner and eats the lot. Other days the bib gets thrown into the bowl and the bowl handed back to me. Some days the dinner gets squirreled down the side of the chair. What I'm basically saying is, there's no consistency. It's the same with toys, TV shows, places...basically everything. Parenting a toddler means being on the ball, all the time.

That's another thing to think about; the safety of the place they're emigrating to. Like, does the new home have a pool? Or a balcony? Also, the parenting styles. Is one parent far more laid-back than the other, more apt to leaving the door to the pool open? I'm not suggesting any harm to the child, but it could be good for sparking an argument between the parents, you know, if you wanted one. My husband and I, for example, bicker a LOT about our toddler, both of us convinced we know best and throw a move into the mix and, goodness, we'd be rowing all right.

I could ramble forever! If you have any questions about children of that age, feel free to message and I can tell you what mine's like, if that'll help .

Two-yr-olds love stickers (both boys and girls). Some throw themselves on the floor and kick and scream when they can't have what they want. Some cry for a band aid for every little (invisible) booboo. Most are mimics. And they run everywhere.