People who knock the wind out of your sails

Jason said:

Only do what you absolutely love and you'll never work a day in your life

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because nobody is hiring, the market is saturated. ::Whichever emoji makes this clear it's a joke::


Seriously, though, Jason is right. If you can get paid to do what you're passionate about it stops feeling like a job.

And if it doesn't feel like a job then it doesn't matter how much you're paid...

Harlequin said:

Lol. It's all fuel for the creative fire, eh?

I think there is also an apprehension surrounding quality, and I do KIND of understand. We all know that apocryphal person who wants to be a writer and publishes their incoherent ramblings on a blog or book and nobody has the heart to tell them that it is, in fact, incoherent. And every writer or artist has that deep-seated dread that they are themselves actually terrible without realising. We dread that they are right, and so do they.

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Get out of my head!

Jason said:

There's an old saying (which I'm about to butcher) that goes something like this:

Only do what you absolutely love and you'll never work a day in your life

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I like that too, but a friend who writes on a tv show turned it around to say: "Do what you love and you'll work every goddamned day because this is your life now!"

(Actually I'm okay with that. My dream was never to write a phenomenal bestseller and then retire on my millions. Just want to make a living as a working writer.)

Manuel Royal said:

I like that too, but a friend who writes on a tv show turned it around to say: "Do what you love and you'll work every goddamned day because this is your life now!"

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That's true in the sense that, when you're doing what you love, you are willing to do it 24/7, and if you're lucky enough to make a career of it, that's often exactly what you're expected to do. My sister makes videos for a living, and people are constantly telling her, "Your job must be so fun!" They're not the ones spending all night editing to hit deadlines.

My family is all artists, so they're sympathetic to creative endeavors, though I learned long ago not to use them as beta readers. The people who take the wind out of my sails are the random people who make assumptions about the kind of work I do. "Oh, you write for teens? I guess you must dumb everything down." "Have you ever thought about writing literary fiction? Something with real substance?" "So, books for teens are all about vampires, right?" "You wrote a book about a serial killer for teens? What is wrong with you?!!!"

I forgive these people for not being steeped in knowledge of the current YA market. They're adults, it's not to their taste, that's fine. You know your market, and that's what matters — same deal as with the OP's Oscar Wilde and Theda Bara portraits. Most people looking in from outside only perceive what's most glaringly visible, with no sense of all the other stuff that could be thriving in a diverse creative marketplace.

But I did count it as a victory when a friend who made the vampire comment read my book and declared himself a fan.

Tepelus said:

She says to me, your art work is really good, but nobody knows who Oscar Wilde and Theda Bara are. You should draw people in our times, people that others will know and care about. Like Beyonce. This was after I had said that there are people out there that collect memorabilia and art of certain celebrities and pay good money for this kind of stuff. So I sat there just wanting to get up and leave, but instead I remained in my seat and was silent. She says there would be more people wanting to buy my art if I drew stuff people wanted.


<snip>


How about all of you? How do you cope with people telling you how to do your art instead of supporting you?

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These days? I don't deal with anyone who does that to me because I simply don't talk to people who don't understand what "art" means. Those who know are those who understand, or they have no comment, or they find it fascinating they know a "real life author".


Previously, though? I got asked when I would publish my own comic book, would I start a drawing class, would I write about them, could I do xxxxx, etc.

Long ago, I was also on the receiving end of, "why don't you get a real job?", "it's only a hobby, give it up", and "you'll never be famous [through writing]". All these were from people I thought supported me or were close to me. Only the middle one was said from the heart and meant for the best (my dad), but he was very proud when I was published. (My mum was beside herself and volunteered to help sell the books.)


However, it was that last phrase that disintegrated the dreams I had. Why? 'Cos it was from a relative I had, up until that point, really respected and looked up to, and because they blurted it out insensitively and it hit when I was at a bad spot in life, and needed to believe. Also, the pronouncement correlated with a lot of first-hand research I had done (I think I've mentioned this a few times in AW and/or on a very old blog of mine). And that "you'll never be famous" phrase was uttered, what, almost 20 years ago? But since then, I have actually been published, and I'm now working as an editor. And you know what? While I despise that phrase, and still feel that some of it's true, I'm at the stage of my life where I can say, "Fxxx you and your 'expertise'; you don't have a godsdamned clue about writing or the industry. And you're even more clueless about me and my abilities."


Do I still respect that relative? Sure. But that's all; they're a relative, they have their life and I have mine. Also, said relative hasn't been a part of my life in decades. So... what weight do I give this relative's opinions? None. And I'm happier for it. Additionally, I don't ask for opinions any more, except when I request critiques (completely different), and I shut down unsolicited opinions on what someone else thinks of my writing / dreams / goals / etc.


All this to say: do what you love doing; pursue your dream even if it looks like there's no chance for success, and regardless of what people say (family or relatives or otherwise). Because, ultimately: you define your success, and you define your dream.

*raises hand* living in a land of wind knockers

When I first decided to write my novel a dear friend told me I'd be better off buying a lottery ticket. Joke is on him- I buy lotto tickets too!

Completely topical for me at the moment as I'm giving notice at my day job of sixteen years tomorrow..... recently while visiting, my mother and I were discussing my upcoming chosen unemployment and she said "It's okay. You'll be alright. You'll figure something out."

Upon returning home, after thinking on the conversation for a few days, I called her. I said, "Mom, I really wanted to thank you for being so supportive. I appreciate not having to fight with you on top of the anxiety of leaving my job."

Her response, "Oh, I didn't mean that. I just know you are going to do what you want anyway, so I figured what's the point in saying anything."

Uh.... swell.

She also announced to a room full of people that as a mother her primary concern with me leaving my job was health insurance. Umm, I have health insurance. And it's not supplied, nor has it ever been by my current job. Non-sequitor much? I think she just needed the room to know she was on top of her motherly duties even if they didn't apply.

As for talking to non-writers about the publishing industry, said conversations are better left alone. Most people have no idea how a book finds it's way to print and it is exhausting explaining how exhausting it all is.

While I'm venting, I am also constantly amazed at how many people want to write a book but have never read one and still want to knock the wind out of your sails. Surely they could do it, better, faster, more lucratively.

Thanks for this thread, I also have no advice, but completely empathize.

Oscar Wilde is like a Pop Tart. Not everyone loves them, but everyone knows what they are. I'm in the LOVE column on this one.

You must drown out the noise of dissension with the joy of the endeavor. Once you get a negative opinion once, don't go back to that source. Regardless of who it is that offered the first one.

My parents staunchly derided and discouraged my creativity in every form in which it presented itself. For them, creativity was an expression of my homosexuality. We'll have none of that. They tried to forbid writing and visual art. Suppression comes out eventually. All will out.

Don't hold it in. Don't let anyone talk you out of it. Enjoy your muses, however they appear.

I've stopped showing people any of my work and I rarely tell people that I write. It never leads to anything good, at least to me.

Just my two cents!

DanielSTJ said:

I've stopped showing people any of my work and I rarely tell people that I write. It never leads to anything good, at least to me.

Just my two cents!

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Are you a bad writer? Has someone told you that you're a bad writer? Or do you sell so much that you don't need to tell anybody? Or sell so few you want to give it all up?
We all feel useless at time (if you're like me, most of the time!).
My brother is currently helping me renovate a property. I emailed him a copy of my latest book (before I self-published it) and we ended up discussing it while building an en-suite bathroom - a bit bizarre really.
Anyhow, as a result, he told his wife, she told her workmates who in turn told their friends and families - and, what do you know? They all completely ignored it!

I love my sister. I really do. But it seems she is always taking the wind out of my sails. Take this evening. We were talking about my newspaper article. And she goes "LB's sister is a real writer. She has published books." And I'm like "I write for a newspaper. It is a real newspaper with sports section, obits, human interest, and current events with reporters in the field." (I write an op-ed about my life growing up in a small town.) And she said "But your writing can't change what happened to us as kids." What she doesn't understand is that writing about those dark bits is cathartic. I told her I'd never mention my writing again. And I won't.

I resisted for the longest time showing my latest to my mum, although she read and liked my first two books (or SAID she liked them -- it's not a genre she reads). This time around, different genre and while I thought she'd like book 1, the story takes a... turn in later books that I thought she'd balk at. She hasn't balked, and has instead become invested in the characters and gotten swept along for the ride. Which is great, except for when she tells me one character is being too mean to this other character she's particularly invested in, and that makes me worry she's right... and I second-guess myself and and and...

Just have to remind myself that she's made it through half a million of my words and is still reading, so that's something.

On the other hand, a couple of friends expressed enthusiastic interest in my earlier books so I lent them out, only to hear not one word more from them about the subject months and months later. Either they never got around to reading them, which is disappointing because I think they'd enjoy them, or they read them and can't think of one good thing to say to me about them. That silence certainly knocks a bit of wind out of my sails.

Emily Patrice said:

On the other hand, a couple of friends expressed enthusiastic interest in my earlier books so I lent them out, only to hear not one word more from them about the subject months and months later. Either they never got around to reading them, which is disappointing because I think they'd enjoy them, or they read them and can't think of one good thing to say to me about them. That silence certainly knocks a bit of wind out of my sails.

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Assumptions are too detrimental. Think the very best! They became so engrossed in your novel, they stopped eating, sleeping, and even going to work. They went off the grid, but are better off for the experience of your book!

A few years ago I was writing a short story and made the mistake of talking about it to a friend of mine. He thoroughly trashed the entire premise and seemed offended at it. I don't think he had much faith in my ability to write and I really took it to heart. I never finished the story. I mean, it probably would have been crap since it was an early work but it was my crap. You can't get better at something unless you practice and even if it was a deplorable mess, I would have been better for having at least tried.

Now I follow Stephen Kings advice and never tell people what I'm writing. If it comes up, I only show them a few pages of what I've already written. I'm happier that way.

Enlightened said:

Assumptions are too detrimental. Think the very best! They became so engrossed in your novel, they stopped eating, sleeping, and even going to work. They went off the grid, but are better off for the experience of your book!

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That would be... amazing. But I see them several times a week and they're definitely not acting like they're so engrossed they stopped anything. At first it was like the elephant in the room, and now I just try not to think about it.

I don't tell many people what I'm writing and I don't show it to many people close to me. This is because I've had several instances where people thought I was writing about mutual friends, or even about them, when I actually wasn't. All readers come to the table with expectations about how the story will go or how it should be told, and those who know me seem to have these expectations turned up a few notches higher because they know me. It's like they thknk having an inside track gives them editorial rights. It takes away my ability to have the characters and story do what I need them to. I get tired of having to explain the story to a higher degree than I have to to readers I don't know.

Friends reading books rarely works out. They're too close to you and imagine they can see you in the novel.

unless they read your genre (bearing in mind how little most people read) it won't be useful anyway.

If I ever write a book my friends and family like, I'll have done it wrong, since they're not the demographic I'm targeting.

Unless you're very fortunate, non-writing friends or family members are unlikely to give much feedback beyond, "I liked it but it's not really my type of story."

And you'll immediately latch onto the 'I liked it."

Emily Patrice said:

That would be... amazing. But I see them several times a week and they're definitely not acting like they're so engrossed they stopped anything. At first it was like the elephant in the room, and now I just try not to think about it.

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I would certainly ask them. Sometimes people (especially non avid readers) just...don't get around to reading and are as embarrassed by that as anything else.

The other side of the coin is just maybe there are story issues that they've identified and you need to know about.

Of course, it's rare that non-writers can give you really useful feedback on your work but it does happen. They are readers with contemporary taste after all, but can't always articulate exactly what is wrong and why. I've certainly made changes on the feedback of beta friends.

Oh yes, you can get really useful feedback from non-writers.

The best coach isn't always the best player around.

The Black Prince said:

Of course, it's rare that non-writers can give you really useful feedback on your work but it does happen. They are readers with contemporary taste after all, but can't always articulate exactly what is wrong and why. I've certainly made changes on the feedback of beta friends.

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So, there are a couple of things to consider, personally.

One is that, sometimes I do work that I don't *love* because I need to pay the bills. But I never do work that I *hate*. That can be a fine line. If you are looking to make money off of what you do it never hurts to look at what's popular because you might find something that you like or love, and even if you don't you might find something that will show off your skills. I used to do weekly prompts and write a short story of some sort every week - not because I really love short stories (I prefer novellas and novels), but it gave me a chance to practice certain skills in a focused manner.

Secondly, most of the time family members and friends mean well when they offer advice. That doesn't mean their well-intentioned comments don't hurt, but most of the time there is no malice involved and that's a hard thing to handle when you find they're being discouraging because how do you tell someone "That's not helpful" or "That actually hurts my feelings" when you know they are trying to be supportive but don't understand the subject or don't understand that you don't need advice.

Thirdly, sometimes family members do intend to be hurtful. (Or they were raised in such a way that the only good advice is that which is critical.) My husband tells me on a nearly daily basis that I'm wasting my time with writing. That if I were any good I would be making money at it. That fiction (SF/F in particular) is stupid and doesn't make any difference in the world because it's all made up. It's all hurtful, but I've also learned to ignore most of it by simply telling myself that he doesn't understand what he's talking about. And, I just don't bring it up anymore if I can help it because I know he isn't supportive. Sometimes you just have to deal with the fact that some folks in your life will never be helpful about certain things. (In some cases, you should move on, but with family that is not always an option.)

Fourthly, this is why folks say "find your tribe". Because other authors/artists will have been through similar situations and can offer the kind of feedback and support that family and non-author/artist friends can't or won't give you. I would have given up a long time ago if it weren't for friends I'd made through this community and via extended ties on Twitter.

*HUGS* folks.

Awww, Aggy B. I'm sorry to hear that.

Damn, Aggy. I know how much that hurts. I had an ex like that (which is part of the reason they're an ex). I too found my tribe here on this site and in other places.

Bufty said:

Oh yes, you can get really useful feedback from non-writers.

The best coach isn't always the best player around.

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Which is pretty much what I meant, but more often than not you get:

- those who expressed interest then wished they didn't because they don't read much
- those who expressed interest then wished they didn't because they don't like your genre
- those who think anyone who has a go at writing is fantastic just for having a go
- those who think anyone who has a go at writing is wasting his/her time

And that's not counting the friends/family who hope you are rubbish because they are terrified of hard work, ambition and talent paying off (The Smiths wrote a song about that).

These days I've gone beyond all the faint praise and disinterest because I've had several books published and am regarded as a real writer (but can still be safely patronised because I'm not that successful). I never ask people if they would like to beta read anything anymore because I have plenty of enthusiastic betas, which is wonderful. These are people (for the most part) can give me feedback on those things I just can't judge - like whether a book is scary, gripping, intriguing, fast paced etc. Beyond that though, if I ask questions about how they felt about X, I mainly just get answers along the lines of: 'Oh yeah...that was good.'

Mind you, I have had some very valuable feedback on character traits. The main character of (probably) my most successful book is a real bastard, but I toned him down a little based on the feedback of two mates whose opinions I value. Very glad I did because he's right on the edge of being palatable - he was a touch too far the other side in the early drafts.