Starbucks and Racism

Will the CEO also partake of the anti-bias training?

May 29th? So they have another month to be as racist as they wanna be? I cannot believe that their basic customer service training doesn't include 'be polite to everyone' in the interests of return business and bigger tips, if nothing else.

Two articles that I think are particularly worth careful reading:

From The Washington Post: What white people can learn from the Starbucks arrests

Via The Root: From Starbucks to Hashtags: We Need to Talk About Why White Americans Call the Police on Black People

I would really like to be able to dismiss this as more about a bad employee response, but I can't, because ultimately the core issue is that the two men were black, not what they were doing or not doing, not what the employee should have done, but that the two men were black. That's pretty much the bottom line; it's arrested while being black.

AW Admin said:

Two articles that I think are particularly worth careful reading:

From The Washington Post: What white people can learn from the Starbucks arrests

Via The Root: From Starbucks to Hashtags: We Need to Talk About Why White Americans Call the Police on Black People

I would really like to be able to dismiss this as more about a bad employee response, but I can't, because ultimately the core issue is that the two men were black, not what they were doing or not doing, not what the employee should have done, but that the two men were black. That's pretty much the bottom line; it's arrested while being black.

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From the WA Po link:

My guess is that a good percentage of white people would assume they had done something to provoke the cops. They were probably too loud. Maybe they were harassing other customers. Perhaps they tried to take something without paying. Much of white America just isn’t ready to believe that black people can get arrested, harassed by cops or beaten for doing little to nothing....

...The difference, again, is that many white people tend to think that for a cop to shoot you, or beat you, or arrest you, you must have provoked them in some way. Don’t want police attention? Don’t commit crimes. Don’t hang with the wrong crowd or project an aura of violence and intimidation. Be polite and courteous when interacting with police. Do what you’re told, and you’ll be fine....

When many black or Latino or, in some parts of the country, Native American people read about a police shooting of someone like them, the reaction is often more “That could have been me. “There are no precautions to take. It isn’t about not hanging with the wrong crowd, or not talking back to cops, or not engaging in criminal behavior. The “sorts of things” they do that attract police attention are things such as being a U.S. senator driving a nice car, standing outside of a store, walking home after a long shift at a restaurant, trying to make a living by selling CDs, or waiting for a business associate at a Starbucks. It is simply to exist.

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Seems like I have this debate with people every time this comes up. They don't believe the discrimination is as bad as it is. Even after multiple wrongful deaths of young black men at the hands of police are on video for all to see, they retreat into the comfort of their denial.

I'm going to give the CEO the benefit of doubt, and assume he was shocked and dismayed by this incident. He can be accused of cynicism and protecting the bottom line, of course, but there's no obvious reason to go there at this point. He does seem to be trying to get on top of this crap.

That said, I remain dismayed that such "anti-bias" training should even be necessary for this company, or for any other similarly large concern. WTF is going on the brains of employees who do such crap?

I'll also make the assumption (fulfillment as yet unknown) that the manager who called the police is not going to continue to be employed by Starbuck's. It isn;t like they can't find other employees.

caw

blacbird said:

WTF is going on the brains of employees who do such crap?

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Not all employee brains are created equal.

I worked for a large metropolitan transport company and was once was involved in designing the checklist for the manipulation of the brand new subway pier scrubbing machines (they look like mini zambonis with the operator guiding it from behind like a lawn mower (link) ). We made a checklist. Do this. Do that. In that order. Then winter came and we watched with horror the maintenance guys pushing the machines around with their dirty boots - because we have instructed them to clean outside the station first after a snowfall. Perfectly clean tracks from the machine but with dirty boot imprints smacked in the middle of them.

Never ASSUME, because when you ASSUME, you make an ASS of U and ME.

-cb

AW Admin said:

I would really like to be able to dismiss this as more about a bad employee response, but I can't, because ultimately the core issue is that the two men were black, not what they were doing or not doing, not what the employee should have done, but that the two men were black. That's pretty much the bottom line; it's arrested while being black.

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This ^^^.

MaeZe said:

Seems like I have this debate with people every time this comes up. They don't believe the discrimination is as bad as it is. Even after multiple wrongful deaths of young black men at the hands of police are on video for all to see, they retreat into the comfort of their denial.

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Just like we always do with men not seeing institutionalized sexism and rape culture.

I think it's been helpful for me as a white person to have lived for several years in a black neighborhood and worked in a majority black office. I'm not saying I'm particularly work or down or what have you, but just the normalization of blackness.

One anecdote that really stands out to me is that I was driving down the alley towards my house and some black boys about middle school age sped right by on their bicycles. I was startled and honked because I was afraid I might hit them. So I turn to park on the street in front of my house and one of them comes up to my car door all scared asking if I was going to call the police on them. I was like "No! Why would I do that?!" but I see from the Root article that even these children have probably had this happen to them before. A child - but then so was Tamir Rice.

Here's another relevant WA Po article from 2015:
These cops are tired of white people getting freaked out by their black neighbors.

The title says it all. The anecdotes in the article tell you why.

AW Admin said:

Two articles that I think are particularly worth careful reading:

From The Washington Post: What white people can learn from the Starbucks arrests

Via The Root: From Starbucks to Hashtags: We Need to Talk About Why White Americans Call the Police on Black People

I would really like to be able to dismiss this as more about a bad employee response, but I can't, because ultimately the core issue is that the two men were black, not what they were doing or not doing, not what the employee should have done, but that the two men were black. That's pretty much the bottom line; it's arrested while being black.

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First off, let's make it plain. What happened to Rashon Nelson and Donte Robinson at Starbucks wasn't racism. I get weary of every ordinary encounter between Black folk and White folk that goes sideways being called racist. It's not. Really, it's not.

It's bias and sometimes its active prejudice, and like a bad cold it can morph into a virulent case of racism. Bias isn't necessarily malevolent as much as it is unpleasant to encounter and no fun to deal with.

What is unconscious bias?

Bias is a prejudice in favor of or against one thing, person, or group compared with another usually in a way that’s considered to be unfair. Biases may be held by an individual, group, or institution and can have negative or positive consequences.

There are types of biases

1. Conscious bias (also know as explicit bias) and
2. Unconscious bias (also know as implicit bias)

It is important to note that biases, conscious or unconscious, are not limited to ethnicity and race. Though racial bias and discrimination is well documented, biases may exist toward from any social group. One’s age, gender, gender identity physical abilities, religion, sexual orientation, weight, and many other characteristics are subject to bias.

Unconscious biases are social stereotypes about certain groups of people that individuals form outside their own conscious awareness. Everyone holds unconscious beliefs about various social and identity groups, and these biases stem from one’s tendency to organize social worlds by categorizing.

Unconscious bias is far more prevalent than conscious prejudice and often incompatible with one’s conscious values. Certain scenarios can activate unconscious attitudes and beliefs. For example, biases may be more prevalent when multi-tasking or working under time pressure.

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Most of us can spot conscious bias. It's usually loud enough and obvious enough and in-your-face enough to recognize it. It's the unconscious bias that flies under the radar. At least it does until you find out some $11-an- hour manager at Starsucks has called the cops on your Black ass because you wanted to take a leak in the restroom without buying anything first.

There's nothing unusual about a restaurant refusing to allow someone strolling in off the street to use the facilities. A private business is not a public restroom. I'm not minimizing what happened to Nelson and Robinson, but in the larger scheme of things, yes, it's something that pisses me off, but does it really concern me?

No, because I can't stand Starsucks.

^ Thanks for this post, NT - made me think.

I might be off base here, but I think this is a distinction that's lost not only lost on many white people, but also gets at the heart of why so many are resistant to seeing this for what it was. It shouldn't be that hard to accept the idea that society treats various groups (black people, here) differently, but once it gets bound up in the term racist, then accepting the concept of bias magically transforms into being forced to swallow the idea that you are a racist (which obviously isn't something most of us are eager to do).

(The above might be a really obvious thing to say, or at least obvious to some)

*goes off to think more*

raburrell said:

^ Thanks for this post, NT - made me think.

I might be off base here, but I think this is a distinction that's lost not only lost on many white people, but also gets at the heart of why so many are resistant to seeing this for what it was. It shouldn't be that hard to accept the idea that society treats various groups (black people, here) differently, but once it gets bound up in the term racist, then accepting the concept of bias magically transforms into being forced to swallow the idea that you are a racist (which obviously isn't something most of us are eager to do).

(The above might be a really obvious thing to say, or at least obvious to some)

*goes off to think more*

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We need to replace white fragility with white humility.

nighttimer said:

First off, let's make it plain. What happened to Rashon Nelson and Donte Robinson at Starbucks wasn't racism. I get weary of every ordinary encounter between Black folk and White folk that goes sideways being called racist. It's not. Really, it's not.

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I agree inasmuch as calling it racism causes people who are in denial to close their minds. I'm all for using vocabulary that doesn't create barriers to communication. I wouldn't call it bias however, unless you put racial in front of the word.

How about 'discrimination' as a happy medium. Because it's not just biased, it's biased plus an action. Bias can be negative or positive, like a parent biased in favor of their children.

nighttimer said:

At least it does until you find out some $11-an- hour manager at Starsucks has called the cops on your Black ass because you wanted to take a leak in the restroom without buying anything first.

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I'm not sure dismissing the store manager because they earn a low wage contributes much to the discussion. Racial discrimination occurs at all economic levels. And wage shaming isn't nice.

nighttimer said:

There's nothing unusual about a restaurant refusing to allow someone strolling in off the street to use the facilities. A private business is not a public restroom. I'm not minimizing what happened to Nelson and Robinson, but in the larger scheme of things, yes, it's something that pisses me off, but does it really concern me?

No, because I can't stand Starsucks.

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Couple things here. You are minimizing the discrimination by reminding us there's nothing unusual about being told to leave. In this case there was:


It does minimize the discrimination to remind us the manager and the police were acting reasonably/within the norm/within their rights (take your pick). They weren't.

But you are right, calling it racism is unhelpful. I shall stop doing that, (unless I forget).

MaeZe said:

Seems like I have this debate with people every time this comes up. They don't believe the discrimination is as bad as it is. Even after multiple wrongful deaths of young black men at the hands of police are on video for all to see, they retreat into the comfort of their denial.

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This is it exactly. Many of the "I'm not racist, but..." crowd assume that Black people are harassed and abused by police because they are doing something "suspicious" or "disruptive," or even just because they look "scruffy" or "scary."

"Maybe the police went a bit overboard," they opine, "but cops have a dangerous job, and if that kid hadn't been doing X, Y, or Z then it never would have happened." I wonder how many white families have long, serious discussions with their kids about how they should act, where they should hang out, and how they should dress so as not to invite police attention.

It's a disruptive tactic, imo. Because then they can derail the conversation about racial bias or police brutality (which are uncomfortable for many white people) into one where the focus is on what the victims might have done differently.

Roxxsmom said:

It's a disruptive tactic, imo. Because then they can derail the conversation about racial bias or police brutality (which are uncomfortable for many white people) into one where the focus is on what the victims might have done differently.

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I've also heard 'they hate us as much as we hate them' as a something broadly used to this effect.

Seems the police chief has had a change of heart. He says while the police acted legally, they moved to quickly to arrest the men without investigating the situation.

Roxxsmom said:

This is it exactly. Many of the "I'm not racist, but..." crowd assume that Black people are harassed and abused by police because they are doing something "suspicious" or "disruptive," or even just because they look "scruffy" or "scary."

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It's just like all the sexists who pick apart what rape victims were wearing/drinking/going.

CWatts said:

It's just like all the sexists who pick apart what rape victims were wearing/drinking/going.

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It's very much like that, actually. Blaming the victim, or holding potential victims to a standard of behavior that is so high no one could live up to it.

MaeZe said:

Seems the police chief has had a change of heart. He says while the police acted legally, they moved to quickly to arrest the men without investigating the situation.

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It would be nice if there were clearer policies within police departments re how to deal with calls or complaints that amount to racial profiling by business owners or citizens. Would it have killed them to pull the manager aside and say, "Look, these guys aren't breaking any laws, and they seem to be minding their own business and say they are waiting on a friend. Why, exactly, did you waste all our time and call us out?"

MaeZe said:

I agree inasmuch as calling it racism causes people who are in denial to close their minds. I'm all for using vocabulary that doesn't create barriers to communication. I wouldn't call it bias however, unless you put racial in front of the word.

How about 'discrimination' as a happy medium. Because it's not just biased, it's biased plus an action. Bias can be negative or positive, like a parent biased in favor of their children.

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I'm biased against broccoli. I is so ashamed...

I'm not sure dismissing the store manager because they earn a low wage contributes much to the discussion. Racial discrimination occurs at all economic levels. And wage shaming isn't nice.

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Would you prefer if I dismissed the store manager as a scared little flat-butt Becky who saw two big bruthas walk in her Starsucks, (which I'm sure pays her a fair living wage which enables her to buy food, pay rent and make contributions to her 401K), freaked the fuck out, wet her Spanx and immediately fell to her knees weeping, "PULLLLLEEEEASSSSEEEEE DON'T ROB/RAPE/KILL ME, SCARY BLACK MEN!" because I can do that too.

I'll make you a deal, MaeZe. I won't "wage-shame" a Starsucks store manager if you don't suggest I should feel bad for a stupid person's racial paranoia and sketchy career choices.

MaeZe said:

Couple things here. You are minimizing the discrimination by reminding us there's nothing unusual about being told to leave. In this case there was:

1) The Starbuck's business model allows loitering.
2) Other non-paying customers use the bathroom at Starbucks, reported by witnesses in that very shop. I often use the bathroom first when I go in Starbucks and I've never been asked if I intended to buy something.
3) Calling the police was an over-reaction. It's almost certain if two white men were waiting for their third party they would not have been asked to leave, let alone have the cops called on them. (See my related link above re cops wanting white people to stop calling the cops on black people so often.)
4) The police had the authority to mediate, write a citation or make an arrest. Can you seriously imagine if that were two white women, the police would have taken option three without any effort to avoid an arrest?
5) The company CEO believes the men were discriminated against.
​

It does minimize the discrimination to remind us the manager and the police were acting reasonably/within the norm/within their rights (take your pick). They weren't.

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Yes, I am minimizing the discrimination because while I get a video of two bruthas being hassled at a Starsucks is topical in the overall scheme of Shit Black Folk Gotta Deal Wit', it's not important. Some of us call that Tuesday.

Because while we're maximizing this we're minimizing what happened to 12-year-old Ciera Hart who was fished out of the Pacific Ocean after Jennifer Hart reenacted the end of Thelma and Louise killing herself, her wife and their six adopted kids.

Because while we're maximizing this we're ignoring what happened to Diante Yarber, the 26-year-old who got smoked in the parking lot of a Barstow, CA, Wal-Mart.

Because while we're maximizing this we're ignoring the Black Lives That Don't Matter in Newark and Cleveland and Chicago and Detroit and Houston and Oakland and Kansas City and New Orleans and everywhere else because their lives are taken by other Blacks.

Because if we're gonna get hyped and march and demonstrate and boycott and raise hell, can't we raise hell about something that actually means something?

MaeZe said:

But you are right, calling it racism is unhelpful. I shall stop doing that, (unless I forget).

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I shall remind you if you do.

nighttimer said:

I'm biased against broccoli. I is so ashamed...

Would you prefer if I dismissed the store manager as a scared little flat-butt Becky who saw two big bruthas walk in her Starsucks, [snip] freaked the fuck out, wet her Spanx and immediately fell to her knees weeping, "PULLLLLEEEEASSSSEEEEE DON'T ROB/RAPE/KILL ME, SCARY BLACK MEN!" because I can do that too.

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Yes. I would prefer you kept it to the individual responsible.

nighttimer said:

I'll make you a deal, MaeZe. I won't "wage-shame" a Starsucks store manager if you don't suggest I should feel bad for a stupid person's racial paranoia and sketchy career choices.

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I hope you didn't read anything I wrote to mean that.

nighttimer said:

Yes, I am minimizing the discrimination because while I get a video of two bruthas being hassled at a Starsucks is topical in the overall scheme of Shit Black Folk Gotta Deal Wit', it's not important. Some of us call that Tuesday.

Because while we're maximizing this we're minimizing what happened to 12-year-old Ciera Hart who was fished out of the Pacific Ocean after Jennifer Hart reenacted the end of Thelma and Louise killing herself, her wife and their six adopted kids.

Because while we're maximizing this we're ignoring what happened to Diante Yarber, the 26-year-old who got smoked in the parking lot of a Barstow, CA, Wal-Mart.

Because while we're maximizing this we're ignoring the Black Lives That Don't Matter in Newark and Cleveland and Chicago and Detroit and Houston and Oakland and Kansas City and New Orleans and everywhere else because their lives are taken by other Blacks.

Because if we're gonna get hyped and march and demonstrate and boycott and raise hell, can't we raise hell about something that actually means something?

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The results of discrimination differ, but the roots are the same.

I get that this is minor in the bigger picture. And there should have been more outrage over Diante Yarber. I hope there is yet to be more outrage over that travesty. The more attention to the issue the better in my opinion. It's creating a growing wave.

Like the #MeToo wave, it's not just about workplace abuse. The term rape culture is similar to racism. As soon as you say it's rape a wall of denial shoots up. But it was a 'rape is OK' culture that led to the suicides of Rehtaeh Parsons and Audrie Pott. They were teens raped while unconscious at high school parties. Pictures were taken and spread around social media. There were other cases like the Steubenville High School Rape. The thing was/is a substantial number of adults in addition to the teens didn't think it was a big deal. High school hijinks, nothing more.

The stories got media attention but when it faded there was no wave moving to change the underlying culture.

Everything that contributes to the wave is helping. If you think about it, just like the term racism creates a barrier to people hearing the problem, they also write off black men murdered by police as 'thugs'. I believe it helps for people that would otherwise turn away, to realize black people that are not involved with police are being discriminated against as well.

Sorry, got a little rambly there.

I'm confused. How is calling the cops on two black guys who are minding their own business and not doing anything countless white people don't also do every day without harassment not an expression of racism?

The cops didn't shoot them this time, but this is exactly the kind of thing that has ended in shootings in other cases. If one of those cops had decided the situation warranted lethal force, he could have pulled the trigger, and chances are he wouldn't even have been tried for murder. That this case didn't end in tragedy doesn't mean it's not a reflection of racism. The fact that other tragedies are happening around us also doesn't mean this isn't outrageous.

Roxxsmom said:

I'm confused. How is calling the cops on two black guys who are minding their own business and not doing anything countless white people don't also do every day without harassment not an expression of racism?

The cops didn't shoot them this time, but this is exactly the kind of thing that has ended in shootings in other cases. If one of those cops had decided the situation warranted lethal force, he could have pulled the trigger, and chances are he wouldn't even have been tried for murder. That this case didn't end in tragedy doesn't mean it's not a reflection of racism. The fact that other tragedies are happening around us also doesn't mean this isn't outrageous.

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It gets worse. The manager called the cops on these gentlemen TWO MINUTES after they arrived. That blows away the cover story about them not ordering anything.

CWatts said:

It gets worse. The manager called the cops on these gentlemen TWO MINUTES after they arrived. That blows away the cover story about them not ordering anything.

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Wait. Let me get the whole story straight here.

Two guys walk into a coffee shop, sit down for two minutes - about the time it takes for the manager to notice them, finish what she's doing, and walk to their table - and are then asked to leave?

That sounds pretty damned extreme if you want to have clients around to make a buck, especially when other customers have reported lingering never cause them any issue.

What else is it we don't know about this? Like what happened days prior?

-cb