Magic system glitches?

Ms.Pencila

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My current fantasy wip doesn't have many fantastical elements in it, (takes place in an invented secondary world, but no strange creatures or bizarre things, really) but I thought of this possible magic system that might fit with it. However, having little experience trying to work out a magic system (and having read only so many magic systems myself), I'd love to get any second opinions on the viability of this idea before I try to reconfigure the story to work with it. And fresh eyes are always best for catching glitches and inconsistencies that could make those oh-so-fun plot holes down the road.

I've been trying to come up with an origin story for the magic, but I'll leave that raw draft out of here for now (basically, I think the leaders of the people who first came to Aeri asked for particular gifts of memory to keep the experience of their great journey to their new home fresh for future generations, but kind of bungled the details).


In the world of Aeri, you can give memories to another person so long as there's mutual consent and trust between both of you; the stronger the bond of trust, the more vividly the memory is transmitted. (Manner of transmitting would include something like clasping each other's wrists and staring into each others' eyes or something like that). The giving of memories would be considered a very special gift, a milestone in a relationship, often the gift of grandparents and others approaching death, and not particularly frequent--because you typically are left with little more than a shell of the memory (if even that) once you've given it, unless you give it to a memory Keeper.
Memory Keepers can give and receive memories from anyone without any loss on either side, and never forget anything, so they are often sought as special repositories for really special memories. They often combine the roles of artists and historians, chronicling the important events (as well as the more mundane) of each generation in works of zeitgeist that take varying forms (often poetic songs and tapestries, though the different peoples of Aeri all have their own traditions). Keepers never forget anything--except for when a memory thief takes memories from them.

Memory thieves can only take memories from Keepers, given an initial permission by each Keeper. (While I would love to play around with thieves being able to take other peoples' memories, I haven't been able to come up with a really good reason for them to have that ability).
A thief's ability to navigate through a Keeper's memory is limited by how much the Keeper trusts them (though a thief's training is also a factor. I'm picturing entering someone's memory being described as entering a forest or a garden where the trees and plants are each events, and individual leaves are different kinds of details-some aural, some visual, olfactory, etc; things come into better focus the more a keeper trusts their thief, but knowing where you might find certain things or what kind of events look like as trees or plants does make a difference for a thief). Entering someone's memory only needs to be initiated by eye contact with the keeper (once?). Memory thieves tend to choose a single Keeper to partner with, and don't remember memories they take for very long (to begin with, maybe a few days?), but the more they look at other people's memories (without permission?), the more they forget.

A more iffy point I'd like to add but seems liable to just be a plot-hole generator:
While all the above has always been true, at some point shortly before the story takes place a memory thief discovered how to access the memories of other people through the memory of a Keeper that they'd given memories to (or received them from). They probably still have to have made eye contact with the person, but do have the ability to then take memories from them as well. However, taking other people's memories decreases their eyesight (in direct proportion to the importance of the memory to its owner; so a really big steal could result in total blindness, or a thief could go blind over time with small, incremental losses). Still, this discovery made people all of a sudden really afraid of thieves, who they would often blind when they discovered them, and made them more distrustful of keepers.

Keepers and Thieves are born that way, but training is necessary for them to actually make use of their abilities. Some people can live their whole lives never knowing that they could have been one, and some people only find out much later (usually on accident).

The bearing of all this on my (as-yet-unfantastical) story? The family that it follows would be made up almost entirely of keepers and thieves (rare, because neither of these run in families, and both are usually found only far apart. But, since the family gets split up and scattered to different corners of Aeri for most of the story, not too inconsistent). The eldest son also happens to be both a keeper and a thief, and being the one who gets the most training, wrestles the most with just how he's supposed to use these skills for good (as exploitation for less-than-noble purposes come up a lot, especially as he works as an intelligence agent/spy for different people).

Is this making any sense? Does this sound too close to another story's magic? (I know it's next to impossible for this to be completely new, but I am concerned everyone will think of The Giver, what with giving memories. Of course, mentioning any others you think sound close would be welcome--I only found a romance called The Memory Thief that didn't sound all that similar in a lot of other ways).
 
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Justobuddies

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Sounds something similar to the Vulcan Mind Meld, except forgetting any memories transferred in such a way.

Sanderson had a similar sort of thing in the Mistborn Series where a certain race could store memories, and other traits in metallic objects.

Yours is similar to, but different enough that I think you could pull it off.

Here are a couple of questions that may feed your idea, or kill it if it won't work:

Why do they not have writing, and keep written journals and memoirs? How would it change your magic system if it was introduced?

Why are there memory thieves, who profits from the purchase and sales of someone's great grandparents experiences? Are they primarily employed in espionage positions, hire out like PI's, or mainly stick to inheritance dispute law cases?

What happens to the thief's score if he or she goes blind? Are they now stuck with these epic memories that caused them to lose their sight? Is there any optical correction that keeps them seeing better for longer? Does a retired master thief wear a big thick pair of glasses as a mark of what he can teach young up and coming thieves?

Why does blindness only affect thieves and not keepers?

Is it eye contact only, or eye contact and touch? (I read both above) If it's only eye contact has society developed a habit of never meeting people in the eyes (I sure wouldn't if I might find myself a dotard because my memories were stolen, either that or get a pair of sweet shades to protect my memories)?

In what possible way can someone use this magic in a different way to solve a previously unsolvable problem?
 

llawrence

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First of all, I think this sounds like a really interesting idea. I'd read that book.

(While I would love to play around with thieves being able to take other peoples' memories, I haven't been able to come up with a really good reason for them to have that ability).
I personally would follow that idea further, it could add a whole new level of intrigue to your stories. What if a skillful memory thief could replace a real memory with a false one, so the victim might not even be aware of the theft?

However, taking other people's memories decreases their eyesight (in direct proportion to the importance of the memory to its owner; so a really big steal could result in total blindness, or a thief could go blind over time with small, incremental losses). Still, this discovery made people all of a sudden really afraid of thieves, who they would often blind when they discovered them, and made them more distrustful of keepers.
I like the idea of the thieves being blinded as a punishment. I could also see this whole premise leading to a general (often unfair) discrimination against unsighted people due to the stigma of the blindness resulting from memory theft.

Cool idea, lots of possibilities!
 

AwP_writer

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Your system seems very unique, and has great potential. However, it also seems like a very specific thing, and would need to be integral to the story. This is not the sort of system you can slap down in the background as flavor for the world in a story not having much to do with it. Some systems that'd work just fine (your armies use fireballs instead of catapults? Ok, that's interesting, but has no effect on the MC's story of redemption), but not yours. I don't know how far along you are in plotting, but if you have a story that works without, then I'd say don't use it. On the other hand, if the magic is giving you ideas for a story, then it sounds ideal. Good luck.
 

neurotype

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Definitely has undertones of The Giver but it sounds intriguing. Overall, I'm a bit lost on what exactly all of this is for. Why are they called Thieves if the Keepers seem to willingly give them memories, and what are people actually doing with these memories? In most cases, I don't see memories being all that useful. You mention exploitation, meaning they can use memories to steal from a family or something? If this culture holds the Keepers as all-important, but the Keepers are giving away memories to Thieves, why would the Keepers be trusted?

I'm also not clear about Thieves being deliberately blinded. What would this do? Even if you can't see the environment around you, you can still conjure images and the like in your imagination. Neurologically, blindness wouldn't actually have much to do with it, especially if you previously had sight. You would still be accessing those sensations in your memory.

I'm also not clear why the Keepers and Thieves are different. As mentioned, I think the most important question that should be answered is what these abilities are actually used for and/or their danger.
 

Ms.Pencila

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Your system seems very unique, and has great potential. However, it also seems like a very specific thing, and would need to be integral to the story. This is not the sort of system you can slap down in the background as flavor for the world in a story not having much to do with it. Some systems that'd work just fine (your armies use fireballs instead of catapults? Ok, that's interesting, but has no effect on the MC's story of redemption), but not yours. I don't know how far along you are in plotting, but if you have a story that works without, then I'd say don't use it. On the other hand, if the magic is giving you ideas for a story, then it sounds ideal. Good luck.

Thank you!

Good points about the integral nature of the magic (I don't know that I could invent much "flavor magic" really). Since 1) memory and role in society are already major themes, 2) I'm not finished plotting, and 3) so far the magic seems to smooth over previously difficult plot points rather than create bigger problems, I think I will try my luck integrating this into my wip, but I guess we'll just have to see...