Endgame

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blacbird

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At my age degree of chronological success, it has become clear as a mountain stream at spring snow-melt that my writing has zero chance of acceptance for publication in any standard venue. I have accepted that, which is as close to an acceptance as I ever expect to get. But, owing to a personal story of no interest here, I have been encouraged to put at least one thing into a “published” format, for a very small niche audience. I do know how to do that, from having published a number of old out-of-copyright books via a POD outlet.

So the current plan, for that single work, is to produce a handful of copies (six or eight) and distribute them free at a particular venue which is appropriate. After that, the future of the other stuff I have written (novels, shorts, essays) is vague, but probably not positive. The temptation to delete all of it is growing, in no small part out of concern that ever making any of it available publicly could jeopardize human civilization as we know it.

That’s the endgame.

caw
 

ironmikezero

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Go for it, BB . . . once more into the POD breach! Thrust forth your selected work to assail the walls and rescue those niche readers held hostage and unjustly denied the prose they crave. Being thou well armed, forge onward, unerringly persistent! Seek guidance from the wizened veterans who have been blooded on the harrowing fields of self-pubbing (Create Space, etc.); and, harden your heart, lest the nay-sayers and ne'er-do-wells distract thee from thy noble quest.

Lastly, succumb not to the temptation to delete, notwithstanding such considerate concern for the future of mankind. For it is well known, and common knowledge among the League of Associated Villains and Antagonists (LAVA), that human civilization is annoyingly resilient.

Heed thy muse - seek your own Grail! (especially if it's fun . . .)
 
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Carrie in PA

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Take heart. Your heirs will publish all your crap posthumously and make a fortune and never work a day in their lives again, at which point you will become the subject of a TV special about brilliant creatives who never found commercial success during their own lifetime, but whose estate is now worth an estimated bazillion dollars.

So there's that.
 

blacbird

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Don't delete!

I probably won't, but I am having a bit of trouble pointing at what the point is, at this point. I'm beginning to feel that one of my biggest regrets is that I had a couple of very famous writers give me encouragement back in my days at the Iowa Writer's Workshop. I wonder now if it wouldn't have been better for me if one of them had said, "You know, there's a good future in real estate," or something similar.

caw
 

boatman

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I probably won't, but I am having a bit of trouble pointing at what the point is, at this point. I'm beginning to feel that one of my biggest regrets is that I had a couple of very famous writers give me encouragement back in my days at the Iowa Writer's Workshop. I wonder now if it wouldn't have been better for me if one of them had said, "You know, there's a good future in real estate," or something similar.

caw

Didn't you guys have a little local difficulty with a sub-prime situation??
Then you'd have said, 'bother, I wish I'd taken up writing.'

It sounds like you're on a bit of a downer. I'm sure we all feel at times that we're creating an ever-growing back-catalogue of drivel.
I agree with ironmike (I think).
 

S.I. Mansson

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Definitely don't delete. At one point or another, you must've written all that stuff because... well, because you enjoyed it. YOU. Not because of other people. There must've been something inside you that felt you NEEDED to get your writing out. That something is still valid, even if you're feeling down and discouraged right now. There might come a day when you feel different, when you want to return to your roots, enjoy the things you created, for yourself. You can't do that if you've deleted those roots.

Plus, I've always thought human civilization is overrated anyway.
 

frimble3

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Don't delete!
Look around you at "human civilization as we know it". If we haven't destroyed it by other means so far, a few written works won't jeopardize it now!

Besides, if you delete, as you become increasingly chronologically successful you will regret it. Those works will become more perfect in your mind, someone will make a similar work a brilliant hit, you will think "Hah! I had something perfect for this market!" and bitter regret will hit you. We generally regret the one that got away, while the one sitting in it's folder is no problem at all.

Besides, if you destroy all your works, you might not come around here, and we'd miss you.:cry:

And, out of curiousity, what's the one you're planning to self-publish? What raises it above the rest?
 

Bufty

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Come on, Blackie - there isn't a hope in hell you'll delete anything.

Just think- you'd have nothing left to moan about. :flag:

And good luck with the limited distribution, friend. :Hug2:
 

Harlequin

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I guess you must have answered this a million times before, but is there any particular reason to be adverse to self publishing?

I guess my end goal has always been, to be read. Publishers are more efficient at getting you reads, but if you can't get their attention then self publishing isn't bad for that. Particularly when you have a slew of backlog. But if that's not your endgoal then it's a moot point.
 

blacbird

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I guess you must have answered this a million times before, but is there any particular reason to be adverse to self publishing?

It's not a categorical objection to self-publishing. Writing in certain generally popular genres can do respectably in the self-publishing world, I think. But I don't (can't--I've tried) write in those genres.

Beyond that, if I can't get agents even to read the stuff, what is the point of self-publishing it. Why would I want to put such obviously sub-standard material out there.

Plus I don't have the slightest clue how to market stuff like that.

So I'm pretty much sunk, when it comes to publication.

caw
 

novicewriter

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Don't delete! Been there and it was a huge regret later!

Yeah. I regret deleting my first, small attempts at writing fanfiction, as a teen. All I remember is that I wasn't perfect at spelling and that I hadn't been able to write a complete novel, just short scenes; I remember feeling excited, as though I was creative as a teen, but now, I'm curious whether that was true or not, to see how much my writing has changed. I can't remember, and I wish I could.

I think I deleted them because, after more books in my favorite series were published, and the characters in the novels acted differently to how I'd imagined they would, I thought my fanfiction wasn't worth anything and that there wasn't any reason for me to keep them, since it didn't turn out to be canon.
 
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screenscope

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It took me twenty-five years to find a publisher for my novel. I was convinced it was publishable and every few years I rewrote the book from scratch and queried again. I don't think I got one agent to read it and a few publishers passed after reading 50 pages over all those years. I eventually found a very small UK publisher who said yes and I was finally in business.

I gave up writing a few times during that time and pretty much assumed it would never happen, despite my (what I thought was) misplaced confidence. And I decided not to self-publish because I wanted an independent third party to agree with my assessment and pay money to prove it.

I don't know if that helps at all, but I note your comments, "it has become clear as a mountain stream at spring snow-melt that my writing has zero chance of acceptance for publication in any standard venue." If that statement is a reflection of your opinion of your writing standard, that's one thing, but if it's caused by the frustration of not finding a publisher, there is certainly still hope. You sound like you have been writing for some time and likely have a realistic idea of the standard of your writing. A newly published author is just an unpublished author with a contract.
 

Polenth

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It's not a categorical objection to self-publishing. Writing in certain generally popular genres can do respectably in the self-publishing world, I think. But I don't (can't--I've tried) write in those genres.

Beyond that, if I can't get agents even to read the stuff, what is the point of self-publishing it. Why would I want to put such obviously sub-standard material out there.

Plus I don't have the slightest clue how to market stuff like that.

So I'm pretty much sunk, when it comes to publication.

Agents aren't the true judges of all literary worth. They're looking for stuff they think they can sell to big publishers. A lot of work falls through the cracks because it's not the current trend. Self-published work can end up with low sales for the same reason, but it does at least have a chance of reaching a niche.

Your biggest obstacle isn't current trends. It's your belief that you must be a terrible writer because of agent rejections and that it's therefore not worth doing anything. You're caught in a cycle of negativity that has lasted all the time I've seen you here, and that stops you talking actions that could help. In this case, you're going to do all the work required to get the book published, but then not make it widely available. It's not like it's going to save you work by not publishing it widely. You're just not going to do it because you've convinced yourself that everything is worthless.

The worst that will happen is no one will buy it. You already expect that to happen and you already think your work is terrible, so it's not like it's going to get worse. You don't have anything to lose from trying.
 

Harlequin

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What polenth and others said.

Besides, gone are the days of aggressive marketing. There was a point where people who self pubbed went around door to door at bookshops and begged them to stock a book they'd written.

Nowadays you mostly pick a good cover and apply to bookbub.

The indie crowd is full of thriving writers who could not get an agent. Finding readers is easier than finding an agent.
 

blacbird

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All right. I've been beaten down. I will make the damthing available via a POD outlet, along with providing some gratis copies to that teeny niche audience I mentioned. It still feels like an unconditional surrender, but at my stage of things, I no longer harbor fantasies of ever making significant profit on anything I write, and the good news is that at my stage of things, I no longer need to. A decade or more ago, that would have been different, but money was never a real motivator for me anyhow. What was a motivator was a desire for respect, outside validation, for the stuff I wrote, and that just isn't forthcoming from the publishing world. So I'll produce the damthing in a book-shaped form, and accept that I've killed the already-dead aspirations I once had.

I now expect to sell zero copies, and if I'm wrong about that, to get square-root-of-minus-one reviews on Amazon, to which I will pay no attention (I've never looked at an Amazon review, nor do I ever intend to.).

caw
 

BethS

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All right. I've been beaten down. I will make the damthing available via a POD outlet,

What about a Kindle edition? I expect your sales would be higher in electronic form.
 

Harlequin

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If you can get 10 reviews on amazon, that will make a big difference. They have brackets for sales.

Sell at a price point high enough that it qualifies for Kindle Unlimited (so people who sub to amazon can read it for free) and that's not insurmountable by any means.
 

Ari Meermans

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All right. I've been beaten down. I will make the damthing available via a POD outlet, along with providing some gratis copies to that teeny niche audience I mentioned. It still feels like an unconditional surrender, but at my stage of things, I no longer harbor fantasies of ever making significant profit on anything I write, and the good news is that at my stage of things, I no longer need to. A decade or more ago, that would have been different, but money was never a real motivator for me anyhow. What was a motivator was a desire for respect, outside validation, for the stuff I wrote, and that just isn't forthcoming from the publishing world. So I'll produce the damthing in a book-shaped form, and accept that I've killed the already-dead aspirations I once had.

I now expect to sell zero copies, and if I'm wrong about that, to get square-root-of-minus-one reviews on Amazon, to which I will pay no attention (I've never looked at an Amazon review, nor do I ever intend to.).

caw

On the other hand, you could put "the damthing" up on Kindle as BethS suggested. What's the worst that could happen? No sales? (You say you aren't motivated by the money, anyway.) Bad reviews? (Hell, you don't read Amazon reviews, either.)

Or, is it possible that the worst that could happen is that you'd find respect and validation from the reading world? Is that it? The worst that could happen—from your perspective?

Many of us over the years have tried to help, both publicly and privately, but you're not having any of that, thank you very much!

Love ya, blac, but I'm about out of patience.
 
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