"Should" in past tense

I'm answering with the caveat that I don't really know! ha. What I've heard and seen as I read, is that if you establish past tense, you can drop the 'had' in your example. I've heard you do not need to keep all of it as 'past' once it is established; the reader will understand.

This holds up in the books I read. But it's not really a formal answer.

Not to throw a moneky-wrench in your thinking, but if you don't like the "should have had" because it makes it too distant - perhaps the contraction would make it closer?

The gentleman next to her seemed to have more faith. He was calmly sipping his drink, magazine creased in one hand. Maybe she should've had what he's having.

Depends entirely upon intended meaning. I don't think using could or should has anything to do with tense.

I don't see anything wrong at all with - Maybe she should have what he's having. It's her POV and if that was her 'current' thought at that particular point of the unfolding story, I think it's perfectly OK.


As you point out yourself, the meaning changes completely if you switch to Maybe she should have had what he's having. I agree that's a current reflection on the wisdom of the choice she should have made, but apparently didn't.

Any help?.

morngnstar said:

I'm writing in close third person past tense. I have trouble with words like "should" and "could". Can I write this in past tense POV, or is it a tense break?

1. Maybe she should have what he's he was having.

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"he's" is a contraction of "he is," which means, if you were writing in past tense up that point, using "he's" is a change present tense.

You could get around that by writing it as a direct thought, in italics: Maybe I should have what he's having. Otherwise, "he's" should be "he was."

Thank you, Beth. I'm learning all the time.

BethS said:

"he's" is a contraction of "he is," which means, if you were writing in past tense up that point, using "he's" is a change present tense.

You could get around that by writing it as a direct thought, in italics: Maybe I should have what he's having. Otherwise, "he's" should be "he was."

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have had.

"Maybe she should have what he was having."

But the future "should have" in past tense is surprisingly hard to parse. I reckon I'd avoid it altogether and write it a different way. "Looked good. Something to keep in mind for a nightcap, maybe."

Ooh, I think it's also because "have" has a different meaning here from usual.

You mean it as in "get", but it would usually act like "She should have gone to the ..." it sounds like past perfect tense but it isn't, which makes it harder to understand.

The gentleman next to her seemed to have more faith. He was calmly sipping his drink, magazine creased in one hand.
(new paragraph. shifting from description of the man to the character's desire for what the man has)
Maybe she should have what he was having.

This works for me.

Jason said:

Not to throw a moneky-wrench in your thinking, but if you don't like the "should have had" because it makes it too distant - perhaps the contraction would make it closer?

The gentleman next to her seemed to have more faith. He was calmly sipping his drink, magazine creased in one hand. Maybe she should've had what he's having.

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The contraction doesn't change a thing about it except to make the narrative voice more informal/casual. If you're using a lot of other contractions in the narrative, sure, not a problem here. If your narrative is not full of contractions, strongly do not recommend adding one here.

I have to confess I'm very puzzled by this whole discussion. If you're writing narrative in close 3rd past tense, the only correct choice in the context is Maybe she should have had what he was having. It's a simple, straightforward use of the past tense.

Maybe she should have what he's having is present tense and turns it into direct thought, not narrative. If your text regularly slips between narrative voice and direct thoughts of the POV, this is ok, but it's a bit awkward if you don't have absolute control over the voice and verbs; the failure state looks like carelessly mixed-up tenses, which isn't good.

Also, re MythMonger's suggestion: no, it's not at all necessary to break the paragraph before Maybe..., and doing so doesn't change anything regarding the use of tenses.

Could some of the doubt be because "to have" is both the auxiliary - and main verb?

How about:

Maybe she should have ordered what he was drinking or maybe she should buy a drink like his etc

benbenberi said:

The contraction doesn't change a thing about it except to make the narrative voice more informal/casual. If you're using a lot of other contractions in the narrative, sure, not a problem here. If your narrative is not full of contractions, strongly do not recommend adding one here.

I have to confess I'm very puzzled by this whole discussion. If you're writing narrative in close 3rd past tense, the only correct choice in the context is Maybe she should have had what he was having. It's a simple, straightforward use of the past tense.

Maybe she should have what he's having is present tense and turns it into direct thought, not narrative. If your text regularly slips between narrative voice and direct thoughts of the POV, this is ok, but it's a bit awkward if you don't have absolute control over the voice and verbs; the failure state looks like carelessly mixed-up tenses, which isn't good.

Also, re MythMonger's suggestion: no, it's not at all necessary to break the paragraph before Maybe..., and doing so doesn't change anything regarding the use of tenses.

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This was my thought as well that should have had was the only possible conjugation, and if it felt too distant to shorten with the contraction...

I could be wrong, but to me, should have had doesn't seem in keeping with the OP's intended meaning.

For clarity, I agree OP's choice No1 using 'he was' instead of 'he's' - (as mentioned by Beth in post #5.

You seem to be going along with that, too, despite the qualification.

Benbenberi The contraction doesn't change a thing about it except to make the narrative voice more informal/casual. If you're using a lot of other contractions in the narrative, sure, not a problem here. If your narrative is not full of contractions, strongly do not recommend adding one here.

I have to confess I'm very puzzled by this whole discussion. If you're writing narrative in close 3rd past tense, the only correct choice in the context is Maybe she should have had what he was having. It's a simple, straightforward use of the past tense.

Maybe she should have what he's having is present tense and turns it into direct thought, not narrative. If your text regularly slips between narrative voice and direct thoughts of the POV, this is ok, but it's a bit awkward if you don't have absolute control over the voice and verbs; the failure state looks like carelessly mixed-up tenses, which isn't good.

Also, re MythMonger's suggestion: no, it's not at all necessary to break the paragraph before Maybe..., and doing so doesn't change anything regarding the use of tenses.

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Been thinking about this thread, and it seems to me that a major point of confusion arises from us not knowing whether the character in the example is meant to be looking back with regret that she hadn't ordered what the other guy was drinking, or whether she's thinking she should go ahead and order what the other guy is drinking. And that affects how the sentence should be written.

In the first case, benbenberi is right. Maybe she should have had what he was having. (Or, Maybe she should've had what he was having.) Because in that scenario, the character is looking back and thinking she should have done something differently.

But in the second case (which is the way I was looking at it), "have" is used in the sense that she's considering having (obtaining, ordering) the drink sometime in the next few minutes. It could also be written: Maybe she should find that elusive waiter and order the same thing that guy was drinking. Except that then you lose the play on have/having, and of course the above version is longer and wordier. So Maybe she should have what he was having is, I believe, correct if the character is using "have" in the sense of thinking it's something she should do, rather than wishing it's something she had done.

In either case, "he's" must become "he was" in order for the text to remain in past tense.

I agree with conclusions, Beth, but the OP did let us know the intended meaning -

but this adds a lot of distance. It seems to be coming from a perspective well in the future, where she knows how things have turned out, and wonders if things would have turned out better if she'd had that drink. That isn't the point. It isn't even the point that she doesn't have the drink; she's considering whether to have it.

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I reckon it's easier to understand if you substitute "would" (not that you should (hah!), just that it's a way of making it clearer to figure out). Maybe she would have what he was having vs Maybe she will have what he's having.

I'm a Brit, but in that context and with that meaning I'd write it as 'Maybe she should have what he was having'.

It's confusing because several tenses are going on at the same time - 'she should have' is talking about the future; 'he was having' is the past - but that's what sounds right to me. In a different construction it would be 'what he is [he's] having', because he's clearly still drinking it, but because your POV is in past tense it needs to be 'he was having' to match 'he was calmly sipping his drink'.

Would an alternative be better? E.g., "He calmly sipped his drink. Maybe she should order the same one."

Snitchcat said:

Would an alternative be better? E.g., "He calmly sipped his drink. Maybe she should order the same one."

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Just a quickie for fun:
He closed his eyes as he sipped his drink; foam clung to his upper lip and mustache, and dew trickled down the outside of the glass. It was hot and the sun beat down on her shoulders; he looked so pleased and refreshed with his order and she considered getting something similar... but a beer? Oh how gauche, that would never do.

Bufty said:

I agree with conclusions, Beth, but the OP did let us know the intended meaning -

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So the OP did. I did not go back to reread the entire post, so thanks for posting that.

morngnstar said:

Hah, okay, but they're on a plane and he's drinking liquor.

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