[Collaborative] WriteALong

Harro said:

Hi everyone!

My name is Harro, I’m from Amsterdam in The Netherlands, I just finished a short creative writing course and I was very surprised about how enjoying it actually is. Other than doing the writing course I absolutely lack any creative writing experience.

Although I am interested in writing stories, I don't like the idea of doing it all alone with just me and my computer. I studied Industrial design and I’m used to work in teams on developing new products. I believe that when people work together, they are able to achieve much more than when they are working alone. They are able to inspire each other with their ideas and views and are able to help each other out. Therefore, the result of such a collaboration is likely to be of a better quality than when it's only one person working on it. (Or he/she must be a genius)

I’m also a big fan of concepts such as open source, crowdsourcing and crowdfunding (for example; Wikipedia, Drupal, Linux, Kickstarter, etc.) That's why I've decided to build a website which should facilitate large groups of people to collaborate on writing stories together. I know I’m not supposed to post any website links here so I won't. (You can always ask me directly if you're interested)

There already are some websites which enable people to write together, most of them enable 1 person to start off a story with chapter 1 and other people can write chapter 2 and so on. This is cool, but I don’t think such a process could ever result in coherent stories of high quality, with meaning and underlying connections. So, my idea is to first start off with short, abstract and vague ideas and to gradually evolve them into elaborate and complex stories step by step guided by the collective opinion and creativity of all the participating co-writers. This is somewhat similar to how I’ve learned how to develop a new product.

What do you guys think about this idea? Do you think it will be possible to have a great high-quality story which is created by hundreds of co-authors? No. Does anyone have any tips for me on how to find people who would want to help me write the very first story this way? Maybe you yourself want to help?

Looking forward to your responses!
Harro

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Hi --

Welcome to AW.

I don't think I quite understand the point of this -- what would you do with a story created by hundreds of people?

Honestly, I don't buy the premise to begin with; writing is a solitary exercise, and collaboration, while possible, when successful, in my experience, is a near-miraculous convergence. Also... don't see the point, and it sounds rather like hell to have to collaborate with lots of people and work in teams. The absolute worst assignments in school were the ones requiring teamwork.

Hello Harro, welcome to AW

Interesting concept of creation you have there. The problem with having hundreds of co-authors I think would be direction. Maybe start off with a smaller group and see how it goes first.

Harro said:

Thanks for your response. I understand what you mean, yet I do think that it is possible to effectively collaborate.

To be clear, by collaborating I don't mean endless discussions. Instead, by implementing voting-mechanisms and rating systems everyone should be able to give their opinion on the ideas and the choices that have to made regarding the development of a story. The result of a vote or ranking of highest rating would be decisive on which ideas are best and which should be developed further.

The collaborating aspect is more about sharing ideas and views on a story which would help other people to also come up with new ideas.

I think when a story is developed this way, so when many people were able to influence the development, the story will have a higher chance of fitting to what the people out there actually like.

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Again, what is the point? Why do you care if the story you write is what a voting bloc of people like? Why would you think a group of people participating in writing it would be representative of a body of readers? Though, again, the point of he exercise is lost on me.

I think too many cooks spoil the broth. Voting and rating and what is the point?

So does one person do the writing while hundreds of people vote on what happens next? Do multiple people write based on the input? What do you do when voters decide to name your MC Boaty McBoatface because this is the internet? How do you determine that everyone who signs up is serious? How do you determine that they're interested in the things you want to write? What do you do when someone introduces a character and then other people take it a direction the originator doesn't want and the originator backs out, taking that character with them? What is the plan to DO with the story once it's done? Who gets credit on it? Who gets profits from sales?

The phrase "too many cooks spoil the broth" is a real thing, and this is it. Collaboration is difficult. It makes more legal and logistical difficulties with every new people that gets involved. Hundreds of people working on one story? It's a disaster waiting to happen, even if it's just voting on where the story goes.

Harro said:

Hi everyone!

My name is Harro, I’m from Amsterdam in The Netherlands, I just finished a short creative writing course and I was very surprised about how enjoying it actually is. Other than doing the writing course I absolutely lack any creative writing experience.

Although I am interested in writing stories, I don't like the idea of doing it all alone with just me and my computer. I studied Industrial design and I’m used to work in teams on developing new products. I believe that when people work together, they are able to achieve much more than when they are working alone. They are able to inspire each other with their ideas and views and are able to help each other out. Therefore, the result of such a collaboration is likely to be of a better quality than when it's only one person working on it. (Or he/she must be a genius)

I’m also a big fan of concepts such as open source, crowdsourcing and crowdfunding (for example; Wikipedia, Drupal, Linux, Kickstarter, etc.) That's why I've decided to build a website which should facilitate large groups of people to collaborate on writing stories together. I know I’m not supposed to post any website links here so I won't. (You can always ask me directly if you're interested)

There already are some websites which enable people to write together, most of them enable 1 person to start off a story with chapter 1 and other people can write chapter 2 and so on. This is cool, but I don’t think such a process could ever result in coherent stories of high quality, with meaning and underlying connections. So, my idea is to first start off with short, abstract and vague ideas and to gradually evolve them into elaborate and complex stories step by step guided by the collective opinion and creativity of all the participating co-writers. This is somewhat similar to how I’ve learned how to develop a new product.

What do you guys think about this idea? Do you think it will be possible to have a great high-quality story which is created by hundreds of co-authors? Does anyone have any tips for me on how to find people who would want to help me write the very first story this way? Maybe you yourself want to help?

Looking forward to your responses!
Harro

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Maybe you are looking to build a creative canon then be an editor of some sort. Maybe something similar to....

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dragonlance << Over 190 novels, by different authors.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canon_(fiction)

The chances of something like this happening, I can only imagine, are next to nill. Else, with your idea, I think you'd have many, potential legal concerns (working with others), landing an agent, and so forth.

Hello Harro, I tend to agree with others here. When working in engineering, you have a defined goal or need to accomplish. Whether it is a bridge or a minor part of a car, there is really only one end result that can be accomplished, though many paths can get you there. A story is a road to anywhere that can take any path that the author can choose. The end result is the combination of a million choices that the author put down in characters on the page or screen. I could see this being an interesting exercise, with the process likely being far more compelling than the end result.

You are the first person I hear of that wants to write with multiple people (I rarely see that books and at most I heard of it being done with tv shows/movies) which is interesting and good luck on finding that. I personally always hated working on teams and prefer to do things solo.

Hmm. It's an intriguing concept, crowd-sourcing a written work. I could see having people propose ideas and vote on the direction the story takes, sort of a mass, real-time version of Choose Your Own Adventure. However, I think your stumbling block would be the writing itself. Ideas are easy. Getting them down on paper in writing that people actually want to read... that's far trickier.

Think about proofreading. A good proofreader always remembers, "this isn't my work." S/He will suggest changes that highlight the writer's individual style and let it shine. A bad proofreader suggests changes that essentially erase the writer's voice in favor of his/her own style. I think most people have encountered, and been thoroughly irritated by, this sort of bad proofreader at some point in their lives.

Now I have to admit, I've never tried co-authoring a piece with even one other writer, so this is just speculation, but I'd imagine reading over a co-author's work would be similar to proofreading with the "don't make it sound like me" filter reduced or removed. It would be extremely tricky to balance two voices in one work, and the more people you added, the more difficult it would become.

There's a common piece of advice in business that states basically "you should choose your business partner as carefully as you choose your spouse." I always imagined working with a co-author to be an equally challenging undertaking. Your co-author needs to be someone with not only a similar skill-level, but a similar work ethic, vision, sense of humor, etc, so that ideally each enhances the other rather than one dragging the other down. Finding just one other person that's a good match is hard enough. If the singing quartets I've seen form and fall apart are anything to judge by, even four people collaborating creatively, all with equal input, is incredibly difficult to do successfully. A hundred? ... Well, I know I couldn't do it.

In short, I could see this working as a sort of performance piece, with a small number of people (ideally one or two... MAYBE a handful if they all work together really, really well) doing the actual writing and an audience looking on and cheering for the outcomes they like, something like a written version of an improv show. Certainly there are examples of authors writing books one chapter at a time online and building an audience that waits to see what happens the following week, so doing something similar with an added feature of letting the audience vote on the story's direction and writing to order COULD gain an audience.

However, what you're describing sounds more like an improv show that brings the entire audience onto the stage. I just don't see that working out particularly well.

But... if it's something you're really gung-ho to try, I'd say go ahead and give it a shot. Best-case scenario, it works out for you. Who knows? Maybe it'll be the next internet sensation. Worst-case scenario, it flops, in which case you've learned another way to not make a light bulb.


Just be aware of the pitfalls (as people have mentioned upthread) involved with rights in a scenario like this. A story with 100 authors has 100 people with a claim on ownership of that story (and a thousand squabbles about who contributed what and who should get credited how and, if it actually made money, how that money should be alloted). It's highly unlikely that a publisher would touch it for that reason alone, no matter how amazing the finished product.

Harro said:

Hi everyone!

My name is Harro, I’m from Amsterdam in The Netherlands, I just finished a short creative writing course and I was very surprised about how enjoying it actually is. Other than doing the writing course I absolutely lack any creative writing experience.

Although I am interested in writing stories, I don't like the idea of doing it all alone with just me and my computer. I studied Industrial design and I’m used to work in teams on developing new products. I believe that when people work together, they are able to achieve much more than when they are working alone. They are able to inspire each other with their ideas and views and are able to help each other out. Therefore, the result of such a collaboration is likely to be of a better quality than when it's only one person working on it. (Or he/she must be a genius)

I’m also a big fan of concepts such as open source, crowdsourcing and crowdfunding (for example; Wikipedia, Drupal, Linux, Kickstarter, etc.) That's why I've decided to build a website which should facilitate large groups of people to collaborate on writing stories together. I know I’m not supposed to post any website links here so I won't. (You can always ask me directly if you're interested)

There already are some websites which enable people to write together, most of them enable 1 person to start off a story with chapter 1 and other people can write chapter 2 and so on. This is cool, but I don’t think such a process could ever result in coherent stories of high quality, with meaning and underlying connections. So, my idea is to first start off with short, abstract and vague ideas and to gradually evolve them into elaborate and complex stories step by step guided by the collective opinion and creativity of all the participating co-writers. This is somewhat similar to how I’ve learned how to develop a new product.

What do you guys think about this idea? Do you think it will be possible to have a great high-quality story which is created by hundreds of co-authors? Does anyone have any tips for me on how to find people who would want to help me write the very first story this way? Maybe you yourself want to help?

Looking forward to your responses!
Harro

Click to expand...

Honestly, I think this is a neat idea. Would the stories be published under the name of a corporation or would each writer be credited? I'm not sure how it would work out keeping everyone in touch and on the same page, so to speak, but I find it to be a very intriguing idea!

Best of luck, Harro, and welcome to AW!

"Master the rules before you try to break them."

I would recommend getting both a broad and deep understanding of what it means to be a writer before you devote too much time and energy to this idea. It's very intriguing, and honestly fascinates me, but I can't imagine someone as new as you are to the writing world successfully pulling it off. It would be like trying to turn the established concepts in your field of study on its head, but as a first-year university student. Become an expert first, and it'll provide you insight on where and how to break the rules that work.

YES to this:

C.Harmon said:

I would recommend getting both a broad and deep understanding of what it means to be a writer before you devote too much time and energy to this idea. It's very intriguing, and honestly fascinates me, but I can't imagine someone as new as you are to the writing world successfully pulling it off. It would be like trying to turn the established concepts in your field of study on its head, but as a first-year university student.

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Beyond what mrsmig and others have pointed out about who would do the actual writing and own the rights to any of these stories...I would have no desire to read stories like this because part of what I love in the books I read are the individual voices of authors--something that would be homogenized away in this writing-by-committee scheme. It would be like a spectacular cave-aged Cheddar vs. Velveeta; I know which I'd prefer to put in my mouth.

Harro said:

Hi everyone!

My name is Harro, I’m from Amsterdam in The Netherlands...there already are some websites which enable people to write together, most of them enable 1 person to start off a story with chapter 1 and other people can write chapter 2 and so on...What do you guys think about this idea? Do you think it will be possible to have a great high-quality story which is created by hundreds of co-authors? Does anyone have any tips for me on how to find people who would want to help me write the very first story this way? Maybe you yourself want to help?

Click to expand...

Hi! Wow, you live in Amsterdam? It looks like a nice, cycling city.

I've heard a few, young writers mention participating in a mass-story, written by several people, but just as a fun, writing exercise, not for payment.

Like others have mentioned, I'm not sure whether trying to pay several authors would be legally viable, as there's always the possibility that at least one writer might not be satisfied with splitting an amount with everyone else because they might feel they've written more than others, and therefore, deserve higher payment.

Harro said:

Alright, first of all I have to say that I am quite the optimist. I think that for every problem you just mentioned there is a solution. Although I do acknowledge that these are big challenges (I love challenges). While the exact specifics of how such a website would work is still not totally clear, I’ll try to do my best to describe it.

So, by opening up the development of a story at the very early stage of ideation, you’re already able to pick a direction for the story based on what a group of people actually like (through voting and ratings). The larger this group is, the better it would represent a body of readers. Many new products fail on the market because there is no market fit, by involving the end-users throughout development, the success potential is increased. This is a common used development practice called co-creation and is proven to increase the success potential. This would take it a step further and completely involve the end-user (the reader) throughout the development process.

The story development would begin with the ideation phase, where everyone is able to submit ideas. Any idea is welcome as long as it is not offensive, harmful or anything. A protocol, flagging mechanisms and community managers could make sure of this, just like with a forum. So, in that case, if the crowd collectively decides they want to write a weird story about MC Boaty McBoatface, they can. Because why not? Maybe it will end up in a hilarious surrealistic comedy story.

Yet, as a story is being developed, guidelines will have to be formed along the way. These eventually evolve into strict requirements for each piece of writing that needs to be done. Therefore, restrictions should be placed on what is submitted for that particular project depending on how far it is developed. By giving those who have provided the best ideas and have contributed most to a particular project the power over setting these guidelines and restrictions, they are able to control the core values and directions within the story. These guidelines and restrictions get more elaborate and complex as a project advances.

Another challenge would be to gain the trust of the writers, they need to receive credit for their work and if a story eventually turns out to be marketable the royalty should be shared in a fair way. This could be solved by implementing a kind of point system throughout the development process. The points collected by a writer would represent his/her share in the project based on how valuable their contribution was. The exact design of such a point system and how it would exactly calculate this has to be developed through a trial and error process which runs during the first story projects. This eventually results in a point system which is as fair as possible to every participating writer (hopefully)

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Oh, you want to sell this? ... I don't know that I could come up with an idea more guaranteed to cause nothing but dissension and a spate of lawsuits.

With ONE cowriter, even a close friend or family member, someone you know and trust, you lock down a contract laying out the division of rights and any resulting assets before you start, even if it's 'everything is 50-50.' To think about that later, or to divide up by how much people think other people contributed? That's just guaranteed to end in legal fees.

As for the idea of it, you do you, but it sounds like some kind of torture to me -- like 'well, you can serve the jail time, or write a book by committee, with voting,' way, that'd result in, 'what jail would it be? Like a nicer jail? I'm thinking.'

I don't think I know any writers who'd be in any way interested in something like that, but god only knows.

Harro said:

I’m sorry if I made a bad impression on you. I’m actually rather new to the whole concept of participating on a forum. And to be totally transparent here, I have to admit that my motivation to join this forum was mainly to discuss my idea with creative writers in order to learn from them, improve the idea and perhaps meet enthusiastic people who would want to get involved.

I understand this is not the way to go, I’ll try to also engage in some other threads too!


@The zombies made me
The stories would be published under the name of the writers who had the most influence on the story along with a line saying something like: “facilitated by -organization name-“ and logo.
And maybe a page could be added listing all the writers.

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It's an interesting concept. I could see a lot of legal issues arising but still, intriguing!

I think the idea's interesting, but not when run by someone who's completely new to writing and the publishing industry in general. The only way I personally would ever be interested in something like this is if it's commissioned by a proper imprint, and there's someone highly experienced moderating all discussions and occasionally putting her foot down when the writers inevitably reach an impasse, and if all the writers involved are represented by legit agents so all the legal bases are covered. Though I can't think of why any agent would want their client to be involved in such a potentially messy project.

Oh man, just thinking of this scenario has exhausted me.