FBI raids Cohen's office

Roxxsmom · Apr 9, 2018

Nothing like this has ever happened before. They must have reason to believe they have something on Cohen. It's hard to believe that Trump could be clean if Cohen is dirty.

Trump, of course, is getting all frothy and saying this is an attack on America. The man really does sound like a dictator, equating himself with the state. Fox News is casting this as thuggish behavior by a corrupt FBI. Very responsible journalism, that, encouraging people to doubt the veracity of our legal system. This worries me. This kind of talk can incite violence.

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/04/09/...-of-trumps-longtime-lawyer-michael-cohen.html

I think the clock is ticking, and Trump's hand is getting smaller. Will he fire Mueller, or distract everyone by starting a war? Constitutional crisis incoming. He'd have to fire Sessions to do this, so he could get a new Attorney General in to fire Rosenstein (since sessions won't fire Rosenstein, and Rosenstein won't fire Mueller--ow, it makes my head hurt).

My question is, how do we ordinary Americans stand up for sanity? Let our leaders know that we will not tolerate any obstruction of justice. I can write my representative and Senators, but they are all Democrats anyway and already agree with me. One thing we can do is write the Speaker of the House and Senate Majority Leader, demanding that they grow some nads and stand up for the rule of law.

Marian Perera · Apr 10, 2018

Roxxsmom said:
Nothing like this has ever happened before. They must have reason to believe they have something on Cohen.

A couple of years ago, Cohen said Hillary Clinton was going to prison.

cbenoi1 · Apr 10, 2018

It's only Tuesday. :popcorn:

-cb

Kaiser-Kun · Apr 10, 2018

Between Syria, China, Mexico, DACA, the Parkland protests, sexual harassment accusations, the Russia probe and now this, Trump has painted himself into a corner. Running for president could probably be the biggest mistake of his life.

Introversion · Apr 10, 2018

Trump's Assault on the Rule of Law

The Atlantic said:
...

This idea, that there is a regimented process for charging people and that it ought not to be determined by political vendettas or the whims of the head of government, is central to the American project, even if the nation has at times fallen short of it. Trump has long struggled to understand and accept the idea of the rule of law. On the campaign trail, he promised to lock Hillary Clinton up and questioned the right of a federal judge to oversee a case involving Trump University. Monday’s comments, including his stunning equation of a legal warrant with a burglary, are the clearest demonstration that Trump is engaged not just in a political attack, but in a campaign against the rule of law, and the U.S. approach to justice, itself.

“It's an attack on our country, in a true sense,” Trump said Monday. “It's an attack on what we all stand for.”

He’s right about that—he’s just wrong about who’s doing the attacking.

shakeysix · Apr 10, 2018

Watergate on steroids--s6

raburrell · Apr 10, 2018

Roxxsmom said:
<snip>
I think the clock is ticking, and Trump's hand is getting smaller.
<snip>

I see what you did there

Joking aside, there's part of me that doesn't hold out a lot of hope here that the GOP will doing a dratted thing, but given the massively high bar a hand-picked Trump appointee (this was the guy Trump replaced Preet Bharara with) crossed to overcome the attorney-client privilege aspect of this development, there has to be something truly huge, truly serious, and truly rock solid going on here. Will that make a difference to a GOP that seems increasingly complicit? I don't know.

shakeysix said:
Watergate on steroids--s6

Stupid Watergate is the most apt term I've seen for all this. Thank dog they all seem to be dumber than rocks. I shudder to think what kind of trouble we'd be in otherwise.

(also, :hi:

AW - how have you been?)

Kaiser-Kun · Apr 10, 2018

This might be useful for you. The preparations for protest rallies across the country have started in case Mueller or Rosenstein are fired, or if Trump issues a blanket pardon.

regdog · Apr 10, 2018

Trump is whinging on Twitter. For someone who has repeatedly insisted he's innocent of any wrong doing, he sure is testy about things. :Huh:

Link 1

Link 2

nighttimer · Apr 10, 2018

raburrell said:
I see what you did there
Joking aside, there's part of me that doesn't hold out a lot of hope here that the GOP will doing a dratted thing, but given the massively high bar a hand-picked Trump appointee (this was the guy Trump replaced Preet Bharara with) crossed to overcome the attorney-client privilege aspect of this development, there has to be something truly huge, truly serious, and truly rock solid going on here. Will that make a difference to a GOP that seems increasingly complicit? I don't know.

Stupid Watergate is the most apt term I've seen for all this. Thank dog they all seem to be dumber than rocks. I shudder to think what kind of trouble we'd be in otherwise.

(also, AW - how have you been?)

I can't speak for the rest of AW, but here in Cowtown, the April Fool's joke was played by Mama Nature dropping a little white frosting on the cars, ground and sidewalks just to let us know she's still boss, spring or no damn spring.

As far as Mueller siccing the dogs on Trump's fixer, Michael "I Pay Off Porn Stars" Cohen, there's a good explainer in Slate that gets a little deeper into what may be going through the special prosecutor's mind and particularly if/when President Baby Hands finally drops his remake of the Saturday Night Massacre.

The raid was by the U.S. Attorney’s Office for the Southern District of New York, and not directly by Robert Mueller’s special counsel’s office. Mueller’s team referred the case to the U.S. attorney, but the U.S. attorney sought the search warrant and received it only after establishing probable cause. In searches of such high-profile and sensitive subjects, U.S. attorneys usually need approval higher up in the Department of Justice.

Why might this U.S. attorney’s office have been involved? One answer is the most basic: a raid of at least two locations simultaneously—office and hotel—requires a lot of bodies and coordination. If you need that many FBI agents, you already need to coordinate with the local office for it to go smoothly. Former prosecutors say that Mueller might have referred this raid to the Southern District for logistical reasons alone. But he still chose to refer the investigation to this U.S. attorney’s office rather than simply use their logistical support.

What else might this move tell us about Robert Mueller’s thinking? First, remember that Mueller has learned that Trump has already tried to fire him, and the person who reportedly stopped him—White House counsel Don McGahn—is rumored to be on his way out of the administration.

The Post is reporting that the subject of the Cohen warrant was an investigation into possible bank fraud, wire fraud, and campaign finance violations, possibly related to a hush money contract with adult film performer Stormy Daniels. Mueller probably could have made a claim that Cohen already fell under his jurisdiction, which is to investigate Russian election interference, links between the Trump campaign and Russia, and “any matters that arose or may arise directly from the investigation.” But it has been reported that Deputy Attorney General Rod Rosenstein made the call to involve the U.S. attorney, and perhaps Rosenstein made a strategic calculation about Trump, or they agreed together. It seems, though, that both men know they need to spread Mueller’s work around as a hedge against his firing, and maybe even to try to deter Trump from firing him.

In comments after the raid, Trump attacked Mueller, Rosenstein, and Attorney General Jeff Sessions, hinting ominously about what he might do next. Mueller and Rosenstein may have anticipated that this raid might have been the last straw for Trump, triggering their firings as they get closer and closer to Trump’s inner circle and any potential personal criminal liability. Once other prosecutors’ offices are involved and have gathered evidence of crimes, though, Trump receives less benefit from firing Mueller, and at an increasing cost. And even if Trump fires Mueller, more prosecutors can carry on the work, with access to some of the same material. Trump should not be able to fire Mueller under the DOJ’s rules or under the Constitution, but Mueller and Rosenstein understand they need to have an emergency backup for a president who does not care about those rules.

Everyone knows Trump would love to fire Mueller, Rosenstein and Sessions all at the same time. He'd love to, but he knows the shitstorm which would incur might not compel Paul Ryan and Mitch McConnell to consider articles of impeachment, but would certainly doom the GOP Congressional majority. Trump also knows the Democrats wouldn't be as reluctant to come after him with guns blazing.

There's no good way forward for Trump here. He can follow the advice of Fox fuckheads like Lou Dobbs demanding Trump "fire the S.O.B" which would be like cutting off your foot because of an uncomfortable ingrown toenail. He can do nothing and play it cool, but that's contrary to his volatile nature. Most likely, he'll let his flunkies, lackeys and lapdogs curse the foul fate that brought Robert Mueller into Trumpworld.

This may all come to naught or it may come to pass, but I can't see far enough into the future to feel comfortable guessing how this all ends.

MaeZe · Apr 10, 2018

I would bet on the outcome that Trump's pathologic narcissism will lead him to fire Sessions, Rosenstein and by proxy, Mueller. He will be told by everyone around him who still has an independent brain not to do it. But Hannity will tell Trump he's right, the deep state must be purged and Trump's pathology will simply result in him being unable to take it: Trump is in charge, they can't do this to him.

:popcorn:

I enjoyed this prose in The Daily Beast:

Cohen, far from being the superlawyer to a billionaire real-estate tycoon, really only has one important job: covering up Trump’s alleged dalliances. It was Cohen batting cleanup, dealing with an army of models, escorts, Mistresses (large “M” and small “m”), actresses, porn stars, models, Real Dolls, fangirls, groupies, and random topiary at Mar-a-Delicto with a wall of nondisclosure agreements. Master of the NDA, Cohen thought attorney-client privilege would protect him.

He forgot he had a fool for a client. Trump couldn’t shut his mouth on Air Force One last week.

Even before Trump opened his mouth on that fateful day, Cohen had managed to repeatedly hoist himself on his own petard in his dumb legal fight with adult-film actress Stormy Daniels, hoping she would, like so many of Trump’s endless bimbo eruptions, go away after one of his spittle-flecked, apoplectic tantrums. If you ever wanted to see a proof of the Steve Jobs “As hire Bs and Bs hire Cs” rule, it was Trump hiring Cohen, and then Cohen hiring an attorney who was an even lower-rent knockoff version of himself. Hilarity ensued.

The image of Michael Cohen as a superlawyer was always laughable, and even the Trump fan club recognized that Cohen was a particular flavor of attorney: The Fixer. His desire to cast himself as a real-life Ray Donovan made him a kind of overwrought, grunting thug character destined for the cutting-room floor in even the most lurid soap-opera script.

Cohen, though, should be understood as an almost perfect metaphor for the Trump era, the Trump White House, and everything else orbiting this president like the hot chunks of waste spinning around the central oscillator at a sewage-treatment plant. He truly brings it all: the shoddy, hair-trigger temperament, the indifferent education and understanding of the world outside of dalliance-cleanup duty and real-estate branding deals, the malfeasance, the petty corruption, general shitheel behavior, the impulsivity, the tantrum-as-negotiation style, and the overall sketchiness of the Trump administration.

Like Trump, his enablers, and supporters, Cohen thought his position as a Trump inner-circle member would protect him indefinitely. He believed, after so many years of getting away with every kind of shenanigan at Trump’s behest, that the facts would never matter, the music would never stop, and the party would never end. Again, he’s a perfect metaphor for this administration.

Roxxsmom · Apr 10, 2018

raburrell said:
I see what you did there
Joking aside, there's part of me that doesn't hold out a lot of hope here that the GOP will doing a dratted thing, but given the massively high bar a hand-picked Trump appointee (this was the guy Trump replaced Preet Bharara with) crossed to overcome the attorney-client privilege aspect of this development, there has to be something truly huge, truly serious, and truly rock solid going on here. Will that make a difference to a GOP that seems increasingly complicit? I don't know.

Me neither.

Does anyone else think Cohen has that "mob lawyer" vibe?

Stupid Watergate is the most apt term I've seen for all this. Thank dog they all seem to be dumber than rocks. I shudder to think what kind of trouble we'd be in otherwise.

(also, AW - how have you been?)

Watergate with a lobotomy.

So where did that money Cohen used to pay off Stormy Daniels come from? At this point, Russia doesn't seem too far fetched.

Good to see you back raburrell.

Kaiser-Kun said:
This might be useful for you. The preparations for protest rallies across the country have started in case Mueller or Rosenstein are fired, or if Trump issues a blanket pardon.

This is good to know. I think we should all do our best to attend some if it comes to that.

blacbird · Apr 10, 2018

Roxxsmom said:
Trump, of course, is getting all frothy and saying this is an attack on America. The man really does sound like a dictator, equating himself with the state.

"Germany is Hitler. Hitler is Germany." -- Rudolf Hess, 1934 (translated).

caw

blacbird · Apr 10, 2018

Roxxsmom said:
So where did that money Cohen used to pay off Stormy Daniels come from? At this point, Russia doesn't seem too far fetched.

Mueller fixed on the money trail very early, with Manafort. This is almost certainly one more step in that direction. Cohen said that he paid the money out of his own personal funds. Mueller is going to look very hard at the history of financial transactions from Cohen's accounts, who paid what to him when.

caw

cbenoi1 · Apr 10, 2018

Roxxsmom said:
So where did that money Cohen used to pay off Stormy Daniels come from? At this point, Russia doesn't seem too far fetched.

You won't have to go that far. I'm betting on the Trump Foundation slush fund.

Ref: https://www.thedailybeast.com/mueller-investigating-trump-foundation-payment-from-ukraine-oligarch

That's where this whole mess began.

-cb

Alessandra Kelley · Apr 10, 2018

Kaiser-Kun said:
Between Syria, China, Mexico, DACA, the Parkland protests, sexual harassment accusations, the Russia probe and now this, Trump has painted himself into a corner. Running for president could probably be the biggest mistake of his life.

I take some grim satisfaction in that, although it is tempered by the enormous amount of suffering the Enablers of That Man have unleashed on the world.

Alessandra Kelley · Apr 10, 2018

shakeysix said:
Watergate on steroids--s6

For more than forty years the American Republican Party has worked tirelessly to uncover - or, barring that, invent - something which would be as shaming and disgraceful for the Democrats as Watergate was for the Republicans.

Somehow this president and these scandals seem the natural result of such ferocious and misguided zeal. It's like a folktale or something.

Roxxsmom · Apr 10, 2018

cbenoi1 said:
You won't have to go that far. I'm betting on the Trump Foundation slush fund.

Ref: https://www.thedailybeast.com/mueller-investigating-trump-foundation-payment-from-ukraine-oligarch

That's where this whole mess began.

-cb

It seems very likely.

Alessandra Kelley said:
For more than forty years the American Republican Party has worked tirelessly to uncover - or, barring that, invent - something which would be as shaming and disgraceful for the Democrats as Watergate was for the Republicans.

Somehow this president and these scandals seem the natural result of such ferocious and misguided zeal. It's like a folktale or something.

It's like the proverbial guy who calls the city about some dandelions on his neighbor's lawn when his own is three feet high in weeds. No one even cares about being called out as a hypocrite these days.

My question is, do all those people who voted for Trump because they wanted a POTUS who will "run the government like a business" still think this is a good idea?

Larry M · Apr 10, 2018

Roxxsmom said:
... My question is, do all those people who voted for Trump because they wanted a POTUS who will "run the government like a business" still think this is a good idea?

Yes, those that I know personally STILL support him and happily shout that he is the greatest president of all time. (Many of my wife's relatives are in this group.)

But that's not all of it: many of these same people really don't care what trump or his minions do, as long as it pisses off Liberals. For many of these people, THAT is their biggest thrill, because they have such a deep-seated hatred of Liberals (aka: snowflakes.)

Introversion · Apr 10, 2018

Roxxsmom said:
My question is, do all those people who voted for Trump because they wanted a POTUS who will "run the government like a business" still think this is a good idea?

Of course they do. Trump’s only problem is that he isn’t conservative enough, and didn’t cut taxes enough.

/s

Cyia · Apr 10, 2018

Larry M said:
But that's not all of it: many of these same people really don't care what trump or his minions do, as long as it pisses off Liberals. For many of these people, THAT is their biggest thrill, because they have such a deep-seated hatred of Liberals (aka: snowflakes.)

It's more than that in some places. You've got people who've been duped or bullied into believing that only right-skewing politicians represent their religious and moral values. They're told not to listen to anything from the other side of the argument, and to take heart that the fact that these politicians are reviled by women's groups, LGBTQ groups, immigrant groups, other religious groups, even certain impoverished areas of society to mean that these same individuals are doing God's work and that's why these groups are upset.

They're told that you can't be left-leaning and a Christian, because leftists are "abortionists," among other things. So anyone in those communities who might disagree with a particular person in the party is told to ignore the person and pay attention to the party-line and *only* the party line.

It's a very carefully cultivated, forced ignorance / deception.

cbenoi1 · Apr 10, 2018

Cyia said:
It's a very carefully cultivated, forced ignorance / deception.

When you purposely isolate people from the truth and make sure you control the information feed, that's called brain washing.

-cb

Roxxsmom · Apr 10, 2018

Larry M said:
Yes, those that I know personally STILL support him and happily shout that he is the greatest president of all time. (Many of my wife's relatives are in this group.)

But that's not all of it: many of these same people really don't care what trump or his minions do, as long as it pisses off Liberals. For many of these people, THAT is their biggest thrill, because they have such a deep-seated hatred of Liberals (aka: snowflakes.)

I think I know someone like this. He doesn't care how screwed the country is as long as it trolls the liberals. I don't understand where all this hate comes from (the person in question comes from a fairly privileged background and grew up in a very diverse, cosmopolitan city). AM talk radio grabbed his attention back in the days when that was the voice of the Right, and he was in a rather vulnerable state of mind at the time (having a drug issue).

I do know one person who has buyer's regret, though. He's a health care provider who loathed the ACA (not all do, but some do), and he gets crazy over all the alleged government waste. He's one of those guys who can't believe how expensive the airforce one plane is, and is the kind of person who rants about expensive, wasteful programs that encourage "laziness" (like the college where we teach, apparently). He liked the idea of a POTUS who would run things like a business and put all the "slackers" who aren't working 60 hour weeks like him on notice, and was indifferent to arguments that the government isn't a business. However, he's since realized that #45 is absolutely unhinged and likely to get us into a war.

raburrell · Apr 10, 2018

nighttimer said:
Everyone knows Trump would love to fire Mueller, Rosenstein and Sessions all at the same time. He'd love to, but he knows the shitstorm which would incur might not compel Paul Ryan and Mitch McConnell to consider articles of impeachment, but would certainly doom the GOP Congressional majority. Trump also knows the Democrats wouldn't be as reluctant to come after him with guns blazing.

There's no good way forward for Trump here. He can follow the advice of Fox fuckheads like Lou Dobbs demanding Trump "fire the S.O.B" which would be like cutting off your foot because of an uncomfortable ingrown toenail. He can do nothing and play it cool, but that's contrary to his volatile nature. Most likely, he'll let his flunkies, lackeys and lapdogs curse the foul fate that brought Robert Mueller into Trumpworld.

This may all come to naught or it may come to pass, but I can't see far enough into the future to feel comfortable guessing how this all ends.

There's a lot of speculation flying around tonight as to Trump's mental state (I am seeing the word 'meltdown' a lot), but at this point, I'm going to be surprised if we get to the end of the week without him making a move against Rosenstein.

Pretty sure as far as this looming Constitutional crisis we've all be half-expecting for a year and a half... we're there.

shakeysix · Apr 10, 2018

Watergate is not some foggy text book passage for me. I lived it. You must remember that Nixon won in 1972 by a landslide--a popular vote that McGovern could not touch although I and all of my progressive, liberal just out of college elitist were, of course for McGovern. We were the bad guys, the dope smoking hippies, the campus agitators behind Kent State. We heard about how stupid and selfish we were constantly--remember Meathead and Archie? Well, Archie and the white socks and Hushpuppies crowd had the upper hand all the way until the Saturday Night Massacre. The firing of Cox pissed off Congress more than the American people. A month after the massacre the people were still pretty closely divided. More wanted him impeached but only by a slim margin. It was the lying and the uncovering the cover ups that finally cost Nixon the presidency. There were always people who defended and even applauded Nixon. The thing is their opinion did not matter because they were a new minority--people who were fast becoming irrelevant as the tide turned against them.

Consider that Trump lost the popular vote by a huge margin--some sources say by a bigger margin than any other US president. Even if you are a believer in Fux News and the Presidential Blow, you cannot help but notice that people, ordinary, everyday people are willing to come out in the hundreds of thousands to protest the very ideas that Trumpbluster asserts the majority of Americans are clamoring for him to give them. This is unprecedented. Even at the height of the 60s and 70s we did not see protests like this. And not in cities across the country. No, the popular vote is the key. Nixon could not weather Watergate even with a popular majority because the lies and hypocrisy took him down with all but the most outdated of his followers. I believe this thing is going so much faster because a. Trump never had a majority of supporters. There might have been a majority of Hilary-phobes but there was never a solid majority of Trump lovers. and b. --oh, hell, the kittens knocked over something on the porch and I lost my train of thought, but I guarantee you, point b was a doozy! If only I could remember it. --good night--shakey six

FBI raids Cohen's office

Beastly Fido

starting over

!

Pie aren't squared, pie are round!

blue eyed floozy

Treguna Makoidees Trecorum SadisDee

!

The Scavengers

No Gods No Masters

Beastly Fido

Sophipygian

Sophipygian

Beastly Fido

Pie aren't squared, pie are round!

Rewriting My Destiny

Beastly Fido

Treguna Makoidees Trecorum SadisDee

blue eyed floozy