I have no idea how to edit.

maggiee19 · Apr 6, 2018

Hey.

I've been here for almost three years. It's going to be three years in August, and I've been meaning to ask this question but I really didn't know how. I have no idea how to edit other than correcting spelling and grammar errors in my novels, and that's easy because Word and OpenOffice do that and I fix those mistakes by clicking a few buttons, but I need to know other issues to look for, like plot holes for example. Besides plot holes, what errors do we have to look for while editing? I have been looking for betas, but I haven't found any.

Thanks
maggiee19

LJD · Apr 6, 2018

I like this book: Self-Editing for Fiction Writers

LJD · Apr 6, 2018

You might also want to check out Holly Lisle's One-Pass Revision.

maggiee19 · Apr 6, 2018

Thank you. I will check both books out.

tiddlywinks · Apr 6, 2018

Hey maggie! You've already received a couple of nice external reading suggestions. One thought I had for learning via observation and "doing" with others - have you ventured much into SYW? You can pick up a lot of techniques and things to look for by critting and reading the crits others give on stories or first chapters. You'll see everything from line by line passes to structural and plot edits. Maybe go in there and work your way thru some threads, making a list of the types of things folks look at.

There are also a number of revision threads in here chockful of nuggets and wisdom on the revision process and the issues folks address in different revision passes. I always scour these as I'm getting ready to enter a revision stage on one of my projects, as I learn new things every time!

Re: beta readers. Generally, you'll want to make sure your manuscript is in a "final" state - where you've done everything you can to polish and refine the story and you think you're ready to query an agent or publish, but now you need another set of eyes to point out things that you've missed and kick it up a notch to "awesomesauce". That's where a beta reader comes in. If you are looking for a reader at the first draft stage for developmental edits and such, that would be more of an alpha reader. And those are easier to find when you've established some crit relationships, in my experience.

Hope this helps.

ETA: Or...have you tried having your work critted in SYW? That also gives you some good pointers, and specific things inherent in YOUR writing you need to look for. I know the first time I put up a chapter for crit, it was invaluable and I used those learnings to revamp the rest of my manuscript. (And I snagged some beta readers in the process.)

maggiee19 · Apr 6, 2018

tiddlywinks said:
Hey maggie! You've already received a couple of nice external reading suggestions. One thought I had for learning via observation and "doing" with others - have you ventured much into SYW? You can pick up a lot of techniques and things to look for by critting and reading the crits others give on stories or first chapters. You'll see everything from line by line passes to structural and plot edits. Maybe go in there and work your way thru some threads, making a list of the types of things folks look at.

There are also a number of revision threads in here chockful of nuggets and wisdom on the revision process and the issues folks address in different revision passes. I always scour these as I'm getting ready to enter a revision stage on one of my projects, as I learn new things every time!

Re: beta readers. Generally, you'll want to make sure your manuscript is in a "final" state - where you've done everything you can to polish and refine the story and you think you're ready to query an agent or publish, but now you need another set of eyes to point out things that you've missed and kick it up a notch to "awesomesauce". That's where a beta reader comes in. If you are looking for a reader at the first draft stage for developmental edits and such, that would be more of an alpha reader. And those are easier to find when you've established some crit relationships, in my experience.

Hooe this helps.

ETA: Or...have you tried having your work critted in SYW? That also gives you some good pointers, and specific things inherent in YOUR writing you need to look for. I know the first time I put up a chapter for crit, it was invaluable and I used those learnings to revamp the rest of my manuscript. (And I snagged some beta readers in the process.)

Thank you. You're amazing.

tiddlywinks · Apr 6, 2018

Ha ha. Just glad to help and good luck revising!

screenscope · Apr 6, 2018

I find breaking up the editing into chunks really helps me. I will do a couple of sweeps looking for typos and other minor issues that cause me to stop or stumble as I read.

Then I do a specific plot read, stopping at each plot point and character decision and ask, why is this happening? And, does it make sense? I find this identifies when I have worked backwards from a plot point or major incident, instead of making the story develop organically.

Another read looking at structure, then one read each for the major characters and another looking solely at dialogue.

After each of these I write up the changes and amendments and I finish up with general reads (at least two) until I'm satisfied enough to hand it to my two readers (my wife and a professional novelist friend). It's a time consuming, but thorough process, and there's always quite a bit more to do when I get feedback.

blacbird · Apr 6, 2018

Learn to recognize superfluous verbiage. You might be surprised how much you can trim of that sort of thing. One of my favorite examples is the "There was X that did Y/It was X that was Y" kinds of sentence construction. Those can nearly always be trimmed to "X did Y/It was Y", Passive voice constructions are another thing to look for (we have many threads here on that issue). I do not mean to suggest that you need to eliminate every one of those, but knowing when and how to use them, and when not to, can be another saver of words.

Fluff dialogue, filled with meaningless lines, is another huge bloat on your manuscript. Read aloud, See what of these things you can trim.

That's a place to start.

caw

The Black Prince · Apr 7, 2018

There seem to be a lot of these editing threads...

If you say you don't know how to edit, I'm guessing that what you really mean is you don't know how to do a structural edit. There are many resources available (some referred to above) but the guts of it is this...you need to understand exactly what your plot is and how it best unfolds. When you finish your first draft, why not go back through and make some notes about every scene. What happened to drive the story forward? What character features were revealed? What questions were asked, what questions were answered? After you do this you will understand more clearly what the spine of your story is. The spine needs to be uncluttered and flow easily from scene to scene (unless you specifically don't want it to do that).

Once you understand the spine/plot in its most coherent form, take out or put in what is needed, and you've just created a 2nd draft which will read MUCH better than your first.

Harlequin · Apr 7, 2018

Critiquing others is one of the best ways to learn, as other posters have said.

If you offer to do a swap you'll almost certainly get betas. Maybe start with smaller chunks or start with SYW first.

Ravioli · Apr 7, 2018

Take breaks to look at your manuscript with fresh eyes every time you go through it. Note down important plot points, setups/payoffs, etc. to make sure you find any inconsistencies as you go.
While you read the book, note everything that makes no sense to you, and look for references to this event/statement elsewhere in the book to make sure everything holds together.
If something doesn't feel right, makes you cringe, etc. then it needs to go or be changed. With scenes where more is implied than shown, ask yourself if you can really expect the reader to understand, or if it's only clear to you because you got all the background info in your head.

Hope that helps

SKara · Apr 7, 2018

Are you reading novels in your genre (or in general)? Sometimes reading other people's stories can help you as a writer see how to improve your own. Once you've read a number of well-written works, you get an intuitive sense of what works and what doesn't, and it helps you view your own story from a new perspective.

Old Hack · Apr 7, 2018

LJD said:
You might also want to check out Holly Lisle's One-Pass Revision.

I find it difficult to do all the editing things I have to do in just one pass, and I can see how people new to editing and revision might really struggle with it.

Harlequin said:
Critiquing others is one of the best ways to learn, as other posters have said.

If you offer to do a swap you'll almost certainly get betas. Maybe start with smaller chunks or start with SYW first.

Critiquing others is a great way to learn. But I wouldn't jump straight in with a beta-swap: do some SYW critiquing first, so you get to grips with working on smaller pieces first.

Generally, I (and most of the other editors I know) start by working from big to small, so that you don't waste time on little things that might be deleted later. So deal with plot holes, structure, story, continuity first; then do a second pass and look at characterisation, dialogue, etc. Once you've done all that, start to consider grammar, punctuation, spelling.

I am a dinosaur and prefer to work with a printed copy; I read through and make all sorts of notes on a separate notebook as I go, although some people make notes on the back of the preceding page so that their notes are facing the page concerned (does that make sense?).

sideshowdarb · Apr 7, 2018

Some books I always recommend that I think will be helpful for you -

Revising Fiction, David Madden:

https://www.amazon.com/dp/0760731012/?tag=absowrit-20

The Art of Fiction, John Gardner:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0679734031/?tag=absowrit-20

Bird By Bird, Anne Lamott:

https://www.amazon.com/dp/0385480016/?tag=absowrit-20

Some of these will be available in your local library, maybe. I would definitely give these a read. The Madden book in particular gives you clear objectives and exercises in revising, as well as getting you thinking about your own approaches.

Best of luck with your writing!

Hopefully WLCT · Apr 7, 2018

Do one chapter at a time. Try to keep the idea that the whole thing needs to be edited,out of your mind. You have to walk,one foot in front of the other to get to where you want to be. This website is the best, great advice is given to you, use it. Good luck...look at it this way, at least you have something to edit ?!

BethS · Apr 7, 2018

While you're dabbling in critiquing and wetting your feet in the pool of feedback, I would suggest you also set out to steep yourself in books about the art of fiction writing, which means reading up on things like story structure, point of view, conflict, pacing, stakes...all the ingredients that go into making a good novel. There are tons of books out there on these subjects. They will not all agree with one another, so don't take any of what you read as Absolute Truth. But absorb what makes sense to you, and then you can apply it to your own work.

Don Maass has written some very fine books on the subject, but two I would especially recommend are Writing the Breakout Novel Workbook and The Emotional Craft of Fiction.

Also good are Stein on Writing and How to Grow a Novel by Sol Stein.

Beyond Style: Mastering the Finer Points of Writing by Gary Provost was long out of print but is now availale on Kindle. He's written some other good books on the writing craft, too.

Someone recommended Self-Editing for Fiction Writers by Renni Browne and Dave King. I second that.

A lot of people swear by Story by Robert McKee. If you decide to tackle that one, keep in mind that it's intended for screenwriters, so while I'm sure it has applicability to novel-writing, novels can also do a lot of things that would never be done on the screen.

He's also written one called Dialogue, which says it's for both screen and novels. I'm planning to check this one out myself.

maggiee19 · Apr 7, 2018

Thank you all for your great feedback. I'm going to bookmark this thread for future reference. You guys are awesome.

maggiee19 · Apr 7, 2018

SKara said:
Are you reading novels in your genre (or in general)? Sometimes reading other people's stories can help you as a writer see how to improve your own. Once you've read a number of well-written works, you get an intuitive sense of what works and what doesn't, and it helps you view your own story from a new perspective.

I'm going to buy a couple of books in my genre. Thanks for that. I learned a lot about writing by reading other works.

Enlightened · Apr 7, 2018

Check out your local, public library before buying a bunch of books. They may have ebooks for free use. Else, try your college library (whether you are a current student or an alumnus), if you still live near to it.

maggiee19 · Apr 7, 2018

Enlightened said:
Check out your local, public library before buying a bunch of books. They may have ebooks for free use. Else, try your college library (whether you are a current student or an alumnus), if you still live near to it.

Excellent idea. Thank you.

ikennedy · Apr 7, 2018

There's excellent advice here. I'll try to add something from how I edit.

After writing I find it helpful to leave the manuscript aside for a while so that when I return I can see it "fresh" and pick up more errors. In this time I might write something else.
Then I read through it and check for any plot inconsistencies and characters that are out of character and any scenes that need cutting or rewriting or moving. The amount of these that exist will often depend on how much planning you did to start with; the less planning, the more things that need work.
Then I read it again (often in a different format: printed, Kindle, etc) so as to look at it differently. In this read I make sure any changes I did for the above point work, and I check the manuscript again for issues and start to focus more on the nitty gritty of the text: the paragraphs, the language used.
I might give it to a family member to read at this stage, to point out errors.
Then I go through it again (and again and again...as many times as necessary until I have decided a beta reader can look at it (the family member is not counted as a beta reader, more an alpha reader))
After the the beta readers, I have to make changes again.
After that I check it again. And bam! there's a basically done manuscript for me. It takes quite a few months, but it works for me.

Another thing is, if you notice a big problem with a time line or something in your work, even if you think you are nearly done, you have to address it and that can add a lot of time to the editing process when you go back and change things. Also, if a beta reader points out something important that you missed, that adds time to the process too as you try to fix it.

maggiee19 · Apr 8, 2018

ikennedy said:
There's excellent advice here. I'll try to add something from how I edit.

After writing I find it helpful to leave the manuscript aside for a while so that when I return I can see it "fresh" and pick up more errors. In this time I might write something else.
Then I read through it and check for any plot inconsistencies and characters that are out of character and any scenes that need cutting or rewriting or moving. The amount of these that exist will often depend on how much planning you did to start with; the less planning, the more things that need work.
Then I read it again (often in a different format: printed, Kindle, etc) so as to look at it differently. In this read I make sure any changes I did for the above point work, and I check the manuscript again for issues and start to focus more on the nitty gritty of the text: the paragraphs, the language used.
I might give it to a family member to read at this stage, to point out errors.
Then I go through it again (and again and again...as many times as necessary until I have decided a beta reader can look at it (the family member is not counted as a beta reader, more an alpha reader))
After the the beta readers, I have to make changes again.
After that I check it again. And bam! there's a basically done manuscript for me. It takes quite a few months, but it works for me.

Another thing is, if you notice a big problem with a time line or something in your work, even if you think you are nearly done, you have to address it and that can add a lot of time to the editing process when you go back and change things. Also, if a beta reader points out something important that you missed, that adds time to the process too as you try to fix it.

Frenzy3 · Apr 9, 2018

The first edit I do is to use text to voice to read it back to me. I look out for repeated words. Then I do a grammar edit using grammarly.

Yandiel · Apr 17, 2018

Hi Maggie!

If you are familiar with reddit, you can make an account and subscribe to a subreddit (which is basically a group or forum that specializes in something). I use /writing and /fantasywriting. In these subreddits you are able to critique and be critiqued. A word of advice on this, the critiquing is randomized in the sense that sometimes some people only critique one page, other times they'll critique the entire chapter. There are pros and cons to this. I personally try to use it to my advantage because if someone is only reading the first page that usually means I have not gained their attention. So it makes me work harder to get their attention. I have actually had some of the best critiques on reddit but it's not always that way. Though I am unable to find a good critique partner on there.

Another way to help yourself edit your own work is to read it out loud. I will usually start rewording my sentences just because it doesn't sound good when read out loud. I also hate ugly sounding words and try to avoid using them the best I can only using them if there is no other alternative. Editing plot holes is a bit trickier, usually others who critique your work point out plot holes or certain aspects that doesn't make any sense.

I have no idea how to edit.

maggiee19

LJD

LJD

maggiee19

tiddlywinks

Chaser of Shineyyyy Plot Bunnies

maggiee19

tiddlywinks

Chaser of Shineyyyy Plot Bunnies

screenscope

blacbird

The Black Prince

Harlequin

Eat books, not brains!

Ravioli

Crazy Cat Lady

SKara

Old Hack

Such a nasty woman

sideshowdarb

Hopefully WLCT

BethS

maggiee19

maggiee19

Enlightened

Always Learning

maggiee19

ikennedy

maggiee19

Frenzy3

Yandiel