Left-handed swordsmanship?

I'm right-handed but I learned how to fence and do sword and shield in the SCA left-handed.

When I signed up for the fencing class, I asked the coach if she had a left-handed foil. She found one and I took a few practice lunges with it, before she stopped me.

"You're not left-handed."
"No, I'm not."
"Why do you want to fence left-handed?"
"There are 32 of us in this class. We meet twice a week, so while I'll face 31 right-handers, they'll only get to fence against me once every couple of weeks. I figure that'll give me an edge in this class."
"Come talk to me after the course is done. I think you'd do well in the fencing club."
*grin*

It was the same effect in sword and board, as we called it. There is a psychological disadvantage to righties fighting left handers if they haven't done it before. Esp. if you happen to start your shot low, (usually leading to a rising snap). If I "miss" low righty vs. righty - I smack the other guy on his rear end. If I miss low left vs. right .... well, there's a reason we wear metal cups. *evil grin* That's what made the low to high snap effective.

Richard White said:

It was the same effect in sword and board, as we called it. There is a psychological disadvantage to righties fighting left handers if they haven't done it before. Esp. if you happen to start your shot low, (usually leading to a rising snap). If I "miss" low righty vs. righty - I smack the other guy on his rear end. If I miss low left vs. right .... well, there's a reason we wear metal cups. *evil grin* That's what made the low to high snap effective.

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I had this happen once. ONCE. The leftie asked if I was sure it was a good hit, I had to take a 20 minute break after it. I learned to position my shield differently vs him.

I, of course, wince in sympathy with you.

Eirik Ulfhednar, that rotter, just laughs and hands you an ale.

So long your not referring to the Southpaw squire of Balvin Thorfinsson we're good. Lothar still has issues with him.

As a lefty, I'm looking forward to reading some knowledgeable responses. I used to box and can tell you how handedness matters there, but have no idea as to fencing.

I worked as my fencing coach's assistant for a while, and he made a point (so to speak) of making students spar with me because I'm left-handed. It's a completely different experience, going against someone who fences with the opposite hand as you, and left-handers almost always have the advantage because right-handers don't get to fence against us as often as we get to fence against them.

If you look at the way fencers orient their bodies to each other, the exposed (or at least readily available) target area changes if you're using opposite hands. If I'm coming at you left-handed while you're fencing right-handed, the torso is turned away from the opponent more than if we're both using the same hand. (It's hard to explain, but pretty easy to see if you watch a fencing bout)

Lori, who seriously misses fencing and really wants to take it up again if her knee and shoulder ever decide to cooperate

blackcat777 said:

As it concerns my ms, there is both a technical and an artistic aspect to this.

I've researched the differences (or lack thereof) between lefties and righties in multiple disciplines - but - I was wondering if anyone here had anything interesting to add to the subject?

Some disciplines teach everyone with the same dominant hand. Fuck those people with a rusty spike. This does not work, despite right-handers everyplace insisting it does.

Others cross-train. Sometimes access to left-handed education would have been an issue (historically). Some believe that one style is better than the other due to the asymmetric position of the organs - which also ties into some interesting speculations about the heart (which I intend to beat to a metaphorical pulp). Wearing a katana on the wrong side while walking down the street was basically trolling for a fight.

Any thoughts at all on sword fighting with lefties vs. righties would be appreciated. Thanks!

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I've no experience in swordfighting, but lots in being lefthanded, and my immediate assumption was that it'd be like being a left batter - you're dangerous because most people don't face lefties.

As to the 'everyone can learn the same (righty) way,' this is a pervasive thing in nearly everything, from playing instruments to crafts (everything from using scissors to knitting) to writing, to playing every conceivable kind of sport, to the most mundane things. I've heard it my whole life and still do -- 'oh, it's fine, I teach everyone, there's no difference!' 'Well, the thing we're talking about involves a lot of fine motor skills mostly involving one hand's fingers.' 'Yes, but I teach everyone, you can do it with your right hand; it's no big deal.' *kills the person with lefty scissors*

It's possible, in most cases, to learn to do something with the wrong hand, same as, with enough practice and torture, someone could force you to write and etc., left-handed. You would generally kind of suck at it in relation to how you'd have done if you'd have been taught to do whatever using your dominant hand.

There are, of course, people in the middle and toward the middle of dominance, who can more easily use either to do stuff, or who write left but naturally want to bat or swordfight right or vice versa. I'm talking about people who are truly left dominant with the above.

Go and look up Bruce Dickinson and his fencing (Bruce of Iron Maiden). He was a leftie, who learnt fencing as a rightie (probably due to lack of equipment for lefties at the fencing club). He then re-learnt as a leftie. His styles were different depending on which hand he used. Right hand more classical, left hand more instinctive.

Also, when you get two lefties facing each other in fencing, they're often not that used to it.

My first fencing coach could use either hand for teaching, would sometimes swap hands on the quiet, see if he could catch you out. (Note that fencing weapons are set either left or right handed, curve of the handle and angle of bend of tang to blade. Blade and tang are made straight, bent by the purchaser to their preferred angle when assembling the weapon. Or if a pre-assembled weapon, bent to an angle by the shop's armourer. Old swords have a straight handle, but might have a guard that defends your hand more for a right hander, or might not.)

I used to switch hands during bouts just to screw with my opponent. Didn't work so well after I switched to a pistol grip, but when I used a French grip, I could do it. Also didn't work so well if we were using electronic scoring equipment. Damn wires...

I'm a strongly dominant lefty. I fought SCA, both heavy and rapier, as a southpaw (and being lefty did help me do better than my natural talent would have indicated , at least in sword and board - I was pretty good at swishy-pokey).

Now I do aikido (and iaido), where the sword work is entirely right-hand-dominant. it took some getting used to, but after a year or two (see "natural talent, lack thereof") I was no longer at a disadvantage compared to my right-handed fellow students. I'm still better with the jo (staff), though.

Speaking strictly from a functional perspective, I think a lefty fighting a comparably skilled - or even slightly better - right-hander does have an initial advantage... and may keep that advantage through the fight/bout/match, depending on how quickly their opponent can adapt and/or how much prior experience they've had fighting against the "wrong" side. It certainly won't make up for a large gap in skill and experience, though (except for this one time I single-shotted a knight, but that was pure dumb luck and we both knew it ).

In aikido there are no left-handed swordsmen. End of discussion and much to my dismay because I'm a strong lefty. I'm not great at focusing either and learning how to do all the blocks and blows on one side is very difficult. It's a very strict practice to only use the right side. At the same time, it's teaching me about harmony and adaptation. I honestly don't mind having to learn outside my comfort zone....most days.

thethinker42 said:

I used to switch hands during bouts just to screw with my opponent. Didn't work so well after I switched to a pistol grip, but when I used a French grip, I could do it. Also didn't work so well if we were using electronic scoring equipment. Damn wires...

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Have you seen the Princess Bride and the duel scene ?.
I was always French grip. I took to pommelling (holding the epee further back from the guard, pommel in palm of hand) which gives you a couple of extra inches of reach - and a very large thumb muscle. That helped a bit.


On the left handed subject - spiral staircases in Medieval Castles and what Clan Kerr did

http://www.scotclans.com/left-handed-clan-kerr-and-the-reverse-spiral-staircase/

Sounds like they trained left handed on purpose.

Further thought, if you learn swordplay for purely line of battle - like the Romans for example - you'd probably want everyone to be using the same hand on the sword, to have the weapons evenly spaced down the line of battle. When you are locking shield like the Romans, then definitely want all shields in left hand.

Bolero said:

Have you seen the Princess Bride and the duel scene ?.

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Of course!

I was always French grip. I took to pommelling (holding the epee further back from the guard, pommel in palm of hand) which gives you a couple of extra inches of reach - and a very large thumb muscle. That helped a bit.

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The French grip and I didn't get along. I could never hold it in a way that didn't add some uncomfortable strain (I have some tendon damage in my hand). So....pistol grip for me.

Further thought, if you learn swordplay for purely line of battle - like the Romans for example - you'd probably want everyone to be using the same hand on the sword, to have the weapons evenly spaced down the line of battle. When you are locking shield like the Romans, then definitely want all shields in left hand.

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Speaking of the Romans - left-handed gladiators were highly valued specifically because of their advantage over right handers. It was something I stumbled across while researching my gladiator book, and the reason I wound up making my gladiator a lefty. (The book is even called The Left Hand of Calvus because hell yeah.)

Ah hah, on the gladiator, interesting. (But that is not a line of battle soldier)

I tried a pistol grip once, but it is a lot easier to grasp it too firmly and get stiff - but can see the advantages of it. In some hands it led to a new style of fencing as you had a stronger grip, could whip the blade more.

(Mentioning styles of fencing - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Z-tSyUNdwk. Borman definitely used pistol grip. Not sure what Boisse used. Two very different styles of fencing.)

Fortunately, the damaged tendon that keeps me from using a French grip also keeps me from holding a pistol grip too tight, so it works out for me.