Defining a character by lack of cultural ties. Is this okay?

VFStorm

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I've never actually talked to anyone about how conflicted this story makes me feel, but I thought I would try here first. The novel is written, so this story is pretty much set -- at least until the publisher that has it right now rejects it.

The protagonist is Indian. Taken from her home, she's raised as a slave in Sweden. Much of the story revolves around her internal distance from the Swedish narrative. Norse mythology is the paint flaking off at the heart of the tale; her mental state that she's too dark to be allowed inside Valhalla, no matter how many of the motions she goes through. She's got one good friend, a highly stylized Swedish guy that adheres to the white male ideal. There's kinship in the violence of their times, but she knows that he knows, and he knows how different they are. The tension in their relationship isn't in the male/female dynamic, but that they're no longer children who can ignore the pressures of a homogeneous society that only one of them identifies with. Enter aliens. A race so genetically different from one another that they're practically engineering a new subspecies every generation, and they're dark skinned. There are other worlds out there, things she's never even dreamed possible. Towering above them all, gods who are look a little more like her. Language flows in different ways, and she finds a thread that can lead her back to the people that birthed her.

That thread is a dead end. She's just as distant from India as she is from Sweden. She can speak and identify the trends of ancient Norse and this new alien culture, but her interest in India feels like a daydream. She never even visits.

My conflict is two-sided, I think. The first being that I'm personally mixed. I fall squarely into that definitely-not-white, but way-too-pale-to-be-a-real-Mexican garbage. I can't speak Spanish. My mother associates all things Mexico with the death of her mother, so it's better to say that we were essentially barred from learning too much. While I grew up rolling out tortillas and eating tamales, these activities were never associated with a cultural identity that Mexican-Mexicans saw as good enough. I'm the antithesis of religious, yet many of my stories heavily feature adoring Catholics (and they are not villains). In direct contrast to that, I was just Mexican enough to be called all manner of racial slurs by my father: a man who was smart enough to marry two different women of a race he loathes. I'm used to hate on both sides.

My character, however, is distinctly Indian; she'd share skeletal structure and hair texture. She'd be the right shade of purple in the crook of her arms and back of her knees as everyone else walking down the streets of Southern India. I start questioning myself here.

Have I gone down the wrong path? I struggle with the idea that I may have set up a story where the reader thinks the ending will be 'going home', only to realize far too late that there is no home. Does this fall under setting up a premise and then pulling the rug out from under them? I wanted to be pragmatic, but I'm driving myself crazy wondering if I've made a character that is just too offensive to the current sociopolitical narrative. I may not be able to speak Spanish, but I understand being spit on for it and I wonder if it's okay to write a story where connecting with your own heritage doesn't spin a happily ever after.

Edit: Removed the term 'black' and clarified intentions. For posterity, the aliens were originally described as 'black' in the opening post. Also clarified the protag's origins.
 
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Siri Kirpal

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Where in India is your character from? You're calling her black, the way British do, but only Southern Indian peoples are all that dark-skinned. That's problem number one.

Problem number two: There's a reason our language group is called Indo-European: Our language and our myths share roots with Northern Indian languages and myths.

So without a deeper look, I'm not buying the set up.

I'm a practicing, but non-Indian Sikh. And I'm also ethnically mixed (Lebanese and WASP).

Blessings,

Siri Kirpal
 

VFStorm

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I didn't want the post to be 46 pages long, so I left out the specifics of her character. I apologize for that. She is Southern Indian. After a great deal of research, I settled on Vatapi as her place of origin. It isn't until book two that she's introduced to any of the language that pinpoints her origins, so I didn't even think to include it in a post about book one. Again, apologies. I've also realized that I completely left out the time period reference. This is 699 A.D. The Vikings have yet to begin. All of my research suggested there was little in the way of cultural (*any, I should say. I found a reference of a comb that had been traded, but that was it. **And mention of slave trade by proxy, through early Russia.) exchanges between Sweden and India before the Byzantine empire started to assimilate and the crusades began, but I'm always willing to read something new if you have contrasting information.

Additionally, she's never referred to as black. She's darker than the Swedes, but not as dark as the aliens. The descriptions of her skin are as in the post; by variance of color in places they stand out the most, rather than white or black. She notices a lot of noses and the coloration in bags under eyes, as opposed to modern terminology. I hope some of that helps to ground the story a bit better.

Edits: extra tidbits.
 
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Siri Kirpal

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Okay, good. That's a lot better.

There are always going to be fish out of water stories. Any person who's been carried as far away from her roots as she has and who looks so little like her captors/slaveholders is going to be in that fix. And yes, she won't be able to go home again, because she'll have absorbed her captors' ethos...assuming she was young enough at the time to do that. If she was an adult at the time, she may be raring to go back.

So, yes, in this case, I think the basic premise does work.

Blessings,

Siri Kirpal
 

VFStorm

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The first book took me 3 years to write, but I've always felt like I was tiptoeing the line between a sad acceptance that she would never go back and something blasphemous. Like going back was the right answer, no matter what. Maybe I'm lumping too many of my own insecurities on this piece.

Thank you for your feedback.
 

Siri Kirpal

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After I posted last, I realized that she couldn't ever go back anyway. India has had the caste system probably for millennia, and a woman who'd been a slave would probably be an out-caste. Even if she still had family there, they probably wouldn't take her back in. And forget about marriage. And that just leaves...prostitution and more slavery.

So no, going back wouldn't be the right answer.

They're rarely read these days, but Thomas Wolfe wrote two literary type books You Can't Go Home Again (I think that's the correct title) and Look Homeward, Angel that deal with the issue of not being able to return. They're not your genre, but you might want to learn about them as a reference.

Blessings,

Siri Kirpal
 

VFStorm

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Ooh, that sounds interesting. Thank you for the recommendations, I'll definitely check them out.
 

Polenth

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A character who has no cultural connections to the place she was born is very likely to feel out of place when she returns. It's possible some readers will be surprised, but that's not the same thing as it being offensive. I'd be more concerned about getting cultural details wrong, rather than the general character arc.

But the thing that stood out was your aliens are black people. That means the only representation of black people are non-humans who appear to be doing the colonial thing with white people as the target. This is territory where it could very easily go badly.

Where in India is your character from? You're calling her black, the way British do, but only Southern Indian peoples are all that dark-skinned. That's problem number one.

Black means someone with African ancestry in the UK. The protagonist in the original post would be called Asian. If she was being described without geography, she would be brown, even if she was really dark.
 

Maame B

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Can I ask why you chose to make the character Indian, rather than Spanish or Mexican; as per your own experience? Not a criticism rather than my own curiosity about your own motivations and what might help you get closer to the story, so that the feeling of identity crisis feels more believable perhaps?
 

rusoluchka

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OP, I'm also biracial, but rejected by the white side and raised completely by my Sri Lankan side. My family are darker than me so I get the skin tone hesitancy you and your MC feel. My dad always joked it was easy to find me at family gatherings at least.

I agree with Polenth about being cautious about describing the aliens as black. I'm exhausted by dark skinned aliens, orcs, barbarians as antagonists. No more please.

My only hesitancy about your MC would be the conclusion. It sounds like you're doing your due diligence in researching the authenticity, which is awesome, and the rest will hinge on how your MC's arc resolves. If done well, you'll be fine. I'm not saying you have to have a happily ever after, but it'd be really refreshing to see someone displaced the way she is be set on the path to carving out her own world/home.
 

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From the perspective of someone who grew up in two cultures but never truly identified with either till moving:

It's doable to integrate into either culture. You'll never truly be of the chosen culture, but if it's the one that gives you a sense "home" or "belonging", then, IME, it's really all that's needed to make it work. (Regardless of how much strife takes place.)
 

rusoluchka

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From the perspective of someone who grew up in two cultures but never truly identified with either till moving:

It's doable to integrate into either culture. You'll never truly be of the chosen culture, but if it's the one that gives you a sense "home" or "belonging", then, IME, it's really all that's needed to make it work. (Regardless of how much strife takes place.)

I'd normally agree with you, but this story is taking place in 699 AD and Southeast Asian culture was extremely caste-centric, as Siri correctly pointed out. The likelihood of integrating the cultures when you're rejected or held at arms' length by both is low. That's why I'm nervous about the ending and if it can satisfy a reader, especially readers who are biracial.
 

Snitchcat

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Ah, understood. Well, in 699AD... eep!

In this case, might I suggest that if the ending follows logically and satisfies the story, the ending works and is acceptable?

OTOH, if you're asking this, have you tried flowcharting the main plot from start to finish? If the end flows naturally, then you could consider it fine. If you get stuck anywhere, maybe that's the root issue and not the actual caste/integration question?

Personally, I prefer a logical, satisfactory ending that fits the story. Yes, I might be disappointed that the story didn't end the way I wanted. But it worked, so a non-issue (in time)?
 

Siri Kirpal

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My apologies, Polenth. When I said that the British called Indians "black," I was referring to early 20th writers only. Should have made that clear.

Blessings,

Siri Kirpal
 

Harlequin

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Third culture kids

I think I'm pretty defined by lack of cultural ties. it seems reasonable that a fictional character might be as well.

I can't comment on the rest--others are better qualified and have raised good points.
 
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cool pop

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The aliens being black is very offensive to me, personally. Just saying and wanted to echo some of the thoughts the others brought in. They are dead on. As a black woman, I am sick of black being the default for everything that's unholy, evil, foreign, wild, uncivilized or inhuman. Really. Also, seems like the story might be getting into "White Savior and black savages" territory as well.

And then the aliens are described as "a race so genetically different". No, just no. No. This is wrong on so many levels. You make these aliens sound like neanderthals when you say this.

It's good you asked about this story because if you publish this story as is, you're gonna be eaten alive by readers because there are some serious racial issues here. And, I'm all for writing your story as you feel it should be. I'm also not one to play the race card, but wanted to chime in and say, yes I'd be offended as a black person only because I've seen this depiction of black a zillion times. Why do they have to be black? Why can't they be the same as the girl? I don't understand why the default to anything different is black. That's the big issue, black people not being seen as human or being seen as inferior and I'm tired of it.

Before sending this out to agents/pubs or self-publishing or whatever you plan to do, it would be a good thing to get some sensitivity readers. There's nothing wrong with writing about race or having racist characters. Racism exists, whatever. But it's offensive when there are hidden connotations in books such as the "black is bad" thing. That depiction repeats the same old horrible and tired message. There are many ways the inferior people or the barbarians or aliens can be different without having to be offensive.

Also, I'm not coming at you personally. I don't believe you are doing this intentionally but wanted to tell you how I felt. It's best to know how people will take something before you put it out there. So far, more than me have pointed out a big issue with the aliens being black that maybe you can't see.

At the end of the day, it's your story of course and your decision. But, yeah. I think you'd get a backlash this day and age with this story.
 
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VFStorm

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Sorry for the delayed reply, I haven't been on this website in a few days. I'm glad to see points being raised, but I need to clarify some things.

"A race so genetically different"

from one another was the key phrase in that statement. The aliens are not touted as genetically different from the humans and thus weird or evil, they're genetically different from each other, which is why the second half of that statement continued on to say "that they're practically engineering a new subspecies every generation." There is an abundance of world building behind this that has nothing to do with race, which I explain later in this post.

Why do they have to be black?

They're dark skinned due to originally coming from a planet with a thin atmosphere, resulting in a scorching hot environment highly saturated in UV. Their color was dictated by the fact that extreme, constant heat produces dark people; multiply desert by about 4 and you have the basis for this group. Their origin is essential to a later plot point.

I regret using the term "Black" in the original post, and shouldn't have tried to take a shortcut to indicate that there is racial tension between the aliens and the humans. I apologize for that. I've edited the opening post to remove that term, as that seems to be the biggest sticking point. Nobody in the novel is ever referred to as black or white. This is a quote lifted straight out of the manuscript, describing two of the most prominent alien characters in the first and only time that the protag gets deep into simply looking at them:

"Torchlight shimmered against him like sunbeams on a smooth, dark lake, or fire licking at a twilight sky. He had such a collection of colors in his skin: dark grays, purples, blues, and living shadow where blood rushed under the point of his nose and the thin skin at the tips of his folded ears. By comparison, Trinzi looked like she’d been shaped from red clay and brushed with pine. She gleamed with deep purple-reds, offset by evergreen shadows, and the golden eyes burning out of her delicately structured face flared like a sunrise next to Pendrix’s glacial dusk. The ink of midnight was the only color they shared, and even that changed when one of them moved too much."

The narrative's approach to skin is done as if by a painter: embracing the beauty in differences. The same is applied to the protag herself, as well as the Swedes. The aliens are different from protag, but that doesn't make them savages, barbarians, or anything of that nature, and the narrative never describes them in that fashion.

The most important aspect of the alien culture is that anything else apart from their dark skin can be spectacularly different from one generation to the next. Some of them live on aquatic worlds and may have glowing, cave lichen-like ridges lining their bodies, whereas others have inundated themselves with radiation to such an extent that they can live near titanium-based organisms unaffected. (Hug a battery!) Ultimately I decided that having them remain prideful in something that unifies them made sense, as that's reflective of real life cultures.

As to what role they serve, they're not evil or made to be the object of misguided saviors. They're working on a cosmic scale war in the background that neither the Swedes nor the protag are aware of for much of the novel. (This is book one in a series.) Their presence in the story doesn't save anyone, either. Their purpose is not to shelter or overtake, but to encourage a faster development of the younger races. They recognize the value in wildly different sentient people evolving on different planets: different perspectives breeds new ideas as, ultimately, they're losing a staggeringly large war and they need to not be the only ones fighting it. If the whole universe wants to survive, the whole universe ought to get involved.

This is why they're genetically different from one another. Each generation dedicates their lives to working with a different sentient species, trying to bring as many people on board as they can. That pursuit requires some heavy genetic modification, as they obviously need to be able to survive in the different environments. I didn't bring any of this up in the first post because now we're leaping straight down the rabbit hole of world building.

That's the big issue, black people not being seen as human or being seen as inferior and I'm tired of it.

That, I can 110% see as being a problem. If I may offer a bit more context and see how you feel afterwards: These aliens are called 'Hughin', in an in-universe attempt to settle some racial disputes with the Swedes. Huginn being one of the two crows Odin has in Norse mythology, its name means 'thought'. The Hughin are never, ever, ever presented as black-therefore-evil, and they're a space-faring people coming into contact with pre-viking era humans: inferior is not the word I'd use. They're far from perfect or a sappy ideal, but as a space-faring people, they're advanced, they're intelligent, they're miles ahead of the protagonist and the society she was raised in, and they're appropriately awesome and futuristic. They're aliens in the context of the protag's world view, but the characters themselves are very human.

At no point is there a white or black savior of anything, anywhere. It's simply not in the book. The protag deals with heavy internal conflict stemming from social ostracizing and the abuse of living as a slave, the aliens are aliens doing their thing and, by proxy, one is trying to help the protag deal with her conflict through a lens comparable to modern society, while the Swedes are just trying to survive ancient times and, by proxy, one is trying to help the protag deal with her conflict through the lens of a much more traditional, heavy handed approach.

Ultimately, she makes her own decision.

Why can't they be the same as the girl?

The only reason an Indian anybody would be in Sweden at that time period is because they were slaves. That is historical fact. I'm not comfortable writing a story about mass enslavement, only to later fling the curve ball at readers that it's completely inaccurate from a historical standpoint. Sweden had some slave trade with India, they never invaded or conquered it. Portugal, the Dutch, and Britain played that role.

Can I ask why you chose to make the character Indian, rather than Spanish or Mexican; as per your own experience?

It'd be historically impossible. While the book hardly pretends to be historical fiction, I did a ton of research to make the 'historical' part as accurate as I could within the confines of the story, specifically because it does deal with some racial tensions. The Swedes had an established slave trade with India around this time period; they didn't have one with Spain until after the crusades (and those slaves wouldn't have been from Spain or Sweden, as both would've been converted to Christianity by then.) The book's time period is when Sweden and Norway weren't even countries; they were little more than a collection of warring jarls reigning over roughly grouped 'towns'. The idea that one of them sailed half way around the world to kidnap/purchase a Mayan woman (699 AD, Mexico as it exists today has yet to be invaded and conquered by Spain) just for the sake of making the protag closer to my experience sounded kind of...clumsy to me.

Leif Erikkson (who was Norwegian, not even Swedish), is the earliest historically known sailor from Scandinavia to arrive in America (not even Mexico, but at least the trip 'could' be finished on land), and his sails began around 1000 AD. That's far too late in the time line.

And there it is. The 8 page post I was trying to avoid, lol. Thank you, everyone, for your feedback.

Edit: 50 billion typos.
 
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Roxxsmom

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They're dark skinned due to originally coming from a planet with a thin atmosphere, resulting in a scorching hot environment highly saturated in UV. Their color was dictated by the fact that extreme, constant heat produces dark people; multiply desert by about 4 and you have the basis for this group. Their origin is essential to a later plot point.

Just to be clear, from a scientific standpoint. A planet with a thin atmosphere wouldn't be scorching hot, though it would experience extremes in seasonal and day/night temperatures. Less atmosphere means less heat capacity. Think of how it is high in the mountains, where the atmosphere is thinner. Even when it gets warm during the day, the nights tend to be pretty cold, even in the summer. And the winters are much colder than at sea level. Of course, an entire planet with a thinner atmosphere also means less moisture in that environment and less precipitation (and less precipitation means smaller bodies of water, which also means that temperature extremes would be great), so it wouldn't be exactly like living in our mountains.

Also, it's not temperatures that select for darker skin with humans, but UV intensity (independent of temperature). When there is more UV light, there is more potential for genetic damage (and cancers), and melanin protects from this. Also, with humans, too much UV exposure causes folate breakdown, so that's another reason people in equatorial climes have darker skin, on Earth at least. Of course, aliens wouldn't look like us, and different species living in settings with high solar intensity cope in different ways, but the evolution of something akin to melanin makes sense.

These are relatively small things when it comes to the plot of your story, but sometimes writers have small scientific inaccuracies slip into their work, and no one catches it before it is published. Most readers probably don't notice, but it can knock some out. If you don't want to get detailed with planetary science and description of the alien's homeworld, there's no reason why they couldn't have dark skin because their planet's land masses are equatorial or something (or there could be no reason at all). Humans were all dark skinned for most of our evolutionary history too.
 
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VFStorm

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but UV intensity (independent of temperature)

Ahh, this is where I went astray then. Their exposure to UV was the important bit, playing into their radiation tolerance as a plot point, and I do remember reading specifically about UV driving melanin production, but I mistakenly assumed that correlated with temperature. I'll have to be more careful with this in the future. Thanks for chiming in!