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Thread: Incorrect info about said-isms

  1. #1
    Always Learning Enlightened's Avatar
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    Incorrect info about said-isms

    Something basic, double punctuation in sentences. "Get out of the way!" said John. Grammatically, it is incorrect. Maybe this is not what you were after.
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  2. #2
    Has never been to Engadine Maccas Helix's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Enlightened View Post
    Something basic, double punctuation in sentences. "Get out of the way!" said John. Grammatically, it is incorrect. Maybe this is not what you were after.
    My emphasis.

    I can see how the first sentence is dodgy, but I can't see how the sentence in bold is incorrect.


  3. #3
    practical experience, FTW cornflake's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Enlightened View Post
    Something basic, double punctuation in sentences. "Get out of the way!" said John. Grammatically, it is incorrect. Maybe this is not what you were after.
    Why is that incorrect?

  4. #4
    Always Learning Enlightened's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Helix View Post
    My emphasis.

    I can see how the first sentence is dodgy, but I can't see how the sentence in bold is incorrect.
    "Get out of the way," exclaimed John. Single punctuation.
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    Bigger Than A Bread Box Absolute Sage lizmonster's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Enlightened View Post
    "Get out of the way," exclaimed John. Single punctuation.
    The original example had the lower-case "said" after a quote ending in an exclamation point. That's correct.
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  6. #6
    Has never been to Engadine Maccas Helix's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Enlightened View Post
    "Get out of the way," exclaimed John. Single punctuation.
    They're both correct. They're clumsy, but correct.


  7. #7
    practical experience, FTW cornflake's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Enlightened View Post
    "Get out of the way," exclaimed John. Single punctuation.
    What the monster said. It was correct originally. Those aren't the same thing. Some of us don't use bookisms.

  8. #8
    Always Learning Enlightened's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Helix View Post
    They're both correct. They're clumsy, but correct.
    I'd use the double punctuation for writing novels. I would not use it for other forms of writing.
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    MacAllister's Official Minion & Greeter AW Moderator Ari Meermans's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Enlightened View Post
    I'd use the double punctuation for writing novels. I would not use it for other forms of writing.
    hmm. Not even for novels. Certainly not as in the example given. "Get out of the way!" is action at break-neck speed via dialogue, which is what you want if you're using an exclamatory. Tacking "John said" on the end puts on the brakes. I'd recommend a rewrite if I were betaing/editing something like that.
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  10. #10
    Always Learning Enlightened's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ari Meermans View Post
    hmm. Not even for novels. Certainly not as in the example given. "Get out of the way!" is action at break-neck speed via dialogue, which is what you want if you're using an exclamatory. Tacking "John said" on the end puts on the brakes. I'd recommend a rewrite if I were betaing/editing something like that.
    I had to look at beta'ing twice, before it registered with me. I did not provide context with the example. For me, it's hard to know.
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  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Enlightened View Post
    I'd use the double punctuation for writing novels. I would not use it for other forms of writing.
    I don't know what you mean by double punctuation. I've never heard that term before.

  12. #12
    Pittsburgh Strong AW Moderator amergina's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Helix View Post
    They're both correct. They're clumsy, but correct.
    Yup. The following are all grammatically correct:

    "Get out of the way!" he said.

    "Get out of the way," he yelled.

    "Get out of the way!"

    (I wanted to reiterate this, as I don't want incorrect info out there for new members.)

    As for rule-breaking... well, many "rules" of writing are suggestions. Pros bend the rules in ways that seem natural. We speak in fragments. We think in them. Oral storytelling uses them. Poetry. Music. Why not prose, within limits?
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  13. #13
    Always Learning Enlightened's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by amergina View Post
    Yup. The following are all grammatically correct:

    "Get out of the way!" he said.

    "Get out of the way," he yelled.

    "Get out of the way!"

    (I wanted to reiterate this, as I don't want incorrect info out there for new members.)

    As for rule-breaking... well, many "rules" of writing are suggestions. Pros bend the rules in ways that seem natural. We speak in fragments. We think in them. Oral storytelling uses them. Poetry. Music. Why not prose, within limits?
    My example is perfectly fine for things like novel writing (double punctuation in one sentence). In other forms of writing, this would be frowned on. As a result, one would break/bend the standards (of one form of writing) for things like novel writing.
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    Herder of Hamsters AW Admin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cornflake View Post
    Why is that incorrect?
    It isn't.

  15. #15
    I write novels eqb's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Enlightened View Post
    "Get out of the way!" said John. Grammatically, it is incorrect.
    Sorry, but no. That sentence IS grammatically correct, no matter what kind of writing you're talking about.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by BethS View Post
    I don't know what you mean by double punctuation. I've never heard that term before.
    My choice of words. Periods, question marks, and exclamation points are examples. I think they are called "terminal punctuation marks," technically. I shortened it to punctuation, using a short example, hoping my message relayed okay.
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  17. #17
    Where have the last ten years gone? Bufty's Avatar
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    May just be me, but I don't know what you're talking about.

    Quote Originally Posted by Enlightened View Post
    My choice of words. Periods, question marks, and exclamation points are examples. I think they are called "terminal punctuation marks," technically. I shortened it to punctuation, using a short example, hoping my message relayed okay.
    Last edited by Bufty; 03-30-2018 at 08:59 PM.
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  18. #18
    I write novels eqb's Avatar
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    "Where did you read this supposed rule?" she asked the poster.

  19. #19
    Always Learning Enlightened's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by eqb View Post
    Sorry, but no. That sentence IS grammatically correct, no matter what kind of writing you're talking about.
    I think the issue is style. I was wrong in saying grammar is wrong. In hindsight, the style, of my example, is wrong for other forms of writing. Fair enough?
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  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Enlightened View Post
    I think the issue is style. I was wrong in saying grammar is wrong. In hindsight, the style, of my example, is wrong for other forms of writing. Fair enough?
    Nope. It's perfectly fine. It's about the internal punctuation of quotations and how they're handled; it's more a matter of typography than style or even usage. It's pretty standard in terms of any kind of English prose, aside from the differences between British and U. S. typography regarding single and double quotation marks.

  21. #21
    I write novels eqb's Avatar
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    No. The sentence would be correct no matter what form of writing we're talking about--fiction, non-fiction, memoirs--wherever you have dialog or quoted remarks.

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    Bigger Than A Bread Box Absolute Sage lizmonster's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Enlightened View Post
    In other forms of writing, this would be frowned on.
    No, it wouldn't.

    If you're putting a dialog tag after a line of dialog, it's lower case. That's the rule.

    Now, whether or not the form you're talking about frowns on dialog or exclamation points - that's another issue.
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  23. #23
    Pittsburgh Strong AW Moderator amergina's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Enlightened View Post
    My example is perfectly fine for things like novel writing (double punctuation in one sentence). In other forms of writing, this would be frowned on. As a result, one would break/bend the standards (of one form of writing) for things like novel writing.
    Please don't assert things that aren't true.
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  24. #24
    Always Learning Enlightened's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by eqb View Post
    No. The sentence would be correct no matter what form of writing we're talking about--fiction, non-fiction, memoirs--wherever you have dialog or quoted remarks.
    I'm not arguing grammatical correctness; as I noted, I was mistaken on that matter. My original example was dialogue, to relate to the OPs query. Let me provide another example without dialogue. The sign read: Are you sure you want to do this!? Maybe this example is bad too, but such double punctuation, stylewise, is not appropriate for all forms of writing (outside the examples you provided).
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  25. #25
    Always Learning Enlightened's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by amergina View Post
    Please don't assert things that aren't true.
    I hope I corrected myself since that post.
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