Midcentury US military - process and terminology

Lakey

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I've got a young man about to shipped out to Korea in 1951 or '52. I know basically nothing about military process and customs so I'm a little at sea here. It's just one scene, but I want it to ring true, and I suspect that in the breadth of the AW collective there's someone who can help me do that. Thanks! Here are a few specific questions:

1. He's a young enlisted man, 19 or 20 years old, in the Army.* I presume he's been training and serving on a base somewhere in the U.S. Where might that be? Would he get an opportunity to visit his mother in New York, however briefly, between when he learns he's going to Korea and when he's actually sent? What would that visit be, formally - a pass? leave? a stopover? [If he can't realistically visit his mother, there's no scene, so I'm hoping this isn't a showstopper or a place where I just have to toss realism out the window...]

2. Assuming he gets to stop in New York, how does he get to Korea from there? Does he report back to the base where he was originally stationed, for transport from there? What does that transport look like; does he get shipped to someplace like Tokyo first? This isn't hugely important but you never know what details might be useful to toss into a scene.

3. How would he introduce himself to, say, a friend of his mother's? Would he use his name and rank? What might his rank be? Is PFC reasonable for someone of his age or would he more likely still just a Pvt?

4. Are there any questions I haven't thought of, that I should think of?

* The branch isn't important, and could be changed if another branch makes for more interesting possibilities. Also, if it matters, he isn't a draftee; he joined up voluntarily when he finished high school. He's from a military family.

Again, thanks very much!
 

Murffy

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Someone more knowledgeable will probably come around. Until then my thoughts are in blue.

I've got a young man about to shipped out to Korea in 1951 or '52. I know basically nothing about military process and customs so I'm a little at sea here. It's just one scene, but I want it to ring true, and I suspect that in the breadth of the AW collective there's someone who can help me do that. Thanks! Here are a few specific questions:

1. He's a young enlisted man, 19 or 20 years old, in the Army.* I presume he's been training and serving on a base somewhere in the U.S. Where might that be? Would he get an opportunity to visit his mother in New York, however briefly, between when he learns he's going to Korea and when he's actually sent? What would that visit be, formally - a pass? leave? a stopover? [If he can't realistically visit his mother, there's no scene, so I'm hoping this isn't a showstopper or a place where I just have to toss realism out the window...] [Fort Dix in New Jersey was and is an Army training center.]

2. Assuming he gets to stop in New York, how does he get to Korea from there? Does he report back to the base where he was originally stationed, for transport from there? What does that transport look like; does he get shipped to someplace like Tokyo first? This isn't hugely important but you never know what details might be useful to toss into a scene. [I'm pretty sure Japan/Tokyo would be the jump off point to Korea.]

3. How would he introduce himself to, say, a friend of his mother's? Would he use his name and rank? What might his rank be? Is PFC reasonable for someone of his age or would he more likely still just a Pvt? [Outside a military context, such as being on base, I'd say an introduction would tend to be informal. Rank might not even come up unless maybe his mother is eager to point it out. Even in a military setting I'm not sure he'd necessarily introduce himself as Private John Doe to a civilian. I imagine it would remain informal.]

4. Are there any questions I haven't thought of, that I should think of?

* The branch isn't important, and could be changed if another branch makes for more interesting possibilities. Also, if it matters, he isn't a draftee; he joined up voluntarily when he finished high school. He's from a military family.

Again, thanks very much!
 

Richard White

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1a) There were/are a number of training bases around the U.S. Do you have a specific place you need him to be? If not, the Ft. Dix recommendation works.
1b) He could possibly get a pass to visit his mother over a weekend (72 hours (Fri-Sat-Sun) or 96 (Fri-Sat-Sun-Mon)). If his unit is getting ready to deploy soon, all leaves would be canceled, but a pass is realistic.
2) He'd probably have to report back to Dix and then his unit would be shipped by train to SF, Seattle, or San Diego to get put on a troop transport. From there, they'd probably sail to Japan for final outfitting of gear and then off to Korea.
3) At home, he'd probably use his regular name, but if it was a formal situation he'd be Private Snuffy. Privates or Privates First Class are both referred to as Private in address. If he's a regular instead of a draftee, then PFC (E-2 back then) would be a realistic rank. He "might" be in line for Corporal if a) he's been in a couple of years and because he's a regular. They tended to get promoted ahead of draftees, but that's not a given. It also depends on what you have him doing. If he's combat arms (infantry, artillery, tanks) he might get promoted faster than someone in a service support (supply, medical, intel, maintenance, etc.)

If you have other questions, my dad was in the Army in 1950-52.
 

Tocotin

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2. Assuming he gets to stop in New York, how does he get to Korea from there? Does he report back to the base where he was originally stationed, for transport from there? What does that transport look like; does he get shipped to someplace like Tokyo first?

I don't think he would be shipped to Tokyo itself, but rather to Yokosuka (in Kanagawa Prefecture, where Yokohama is), Sasebo (in Nagasaki Prefecture), or one of the bases in Okinawa.
 

Quentin Nokov

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2. Assuming he gets to stop in New York, how does he get to Korea from there? Does he report back to the base where he was originally stationed, for transport from there? What does that transport look like; does he get shipped to someplace like Tokyo first? This isn't hugely important but you never know what details might be useful to toss into a scene.

I'm not very knowledgeable about this--my apologizes, but this question jumped out at me. My grandfather was drafted in WW2 and he was sent to Nagasaki, Japan in October '45. Before he went to Nagasaki, however, I know he was first sent to Hawaii. When my dad gets home from work I can ask him more details about him being shipped off. Also my grandfather's friend was in the Korean War; I'll see if my dad knows any stories about that. But for now, all I have to offer is that they would most likely go to Hawaii then Japan then Korea. :)
 

Larry M

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The only point I can add to this: my grandfather served in the Korean War in the Air Force in the early '50's. I know that he was sent to Hawaii, and can only assume that Japan was the next stop before Korea (but I don't know that for sure.)
 

Richard White

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My dad's tour during Korea was Camp Crowder, MO -> Ft. Bliss, TX (ADA school) -> Ft. Benning, GA -> (Jungle School) -> Thule AFB, Greenland.

Yeah, think about that ... train in the desert, train in the swamps, assigned to north of the Arctic Circle.

That's the Army for you.
 

mrsmig

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I called up my 97 year-old mother to ask about their experience when my dad shipped over to Korea. My dad was in the Army (1st Lieutenant) and was stationed at Ft. Benning, Georgia while attending paratrooper school when he got his orders for Korea. He and my mother had been married less than a year. Since they had to pack up and move from Benning to Memphis, TN (where Mom would stay with family while Dad was overseas), Dad took leave to facilitate that transfer.

Mom drove my dad and one of his buddies across country to catch their transport plane from an air base near San Francisco (she thinks it might have been Hamilton Field or Travis AFB). She believes they had a stopover in Japan before continuing on to Pyongyang, Korea, where Dad joined his unit. My mom then drove back across country by herself, and on the way started feeling ill. Yep, she was pregnant with their first child. Nine months later my brother Jim arrived, but Dad wasn't able to get home until two weeks after that.

I asked Mom specifically about your scenario, and she said that one usually got leave before shipping overseas, particularly to a combat zone - so your character's visit to his mother in NYC would not only be plausible, but expected.
 

Lakey

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Many thanks to you all - you have given me everything I need to work with and much more that will lurk in the background adding truthiness. ;)

1a) There were/are a number of training bases around the U.S. Do you have a specific place you need him to be? If not, the Ft. Dix recommendation works.
I have a small preference for him training (or having been stationed) somewhere further away from his mother than Ft. Dix - it's not terribly important, but the story works a little better if his mother hasn't seen him in a while, and if he's as close as Dix he'd have had an easier time visiting her on some previous leave or pass.

1b) He could possibly get a pass to visit his mother over a weekend (72 hours (Fri-Sat-Sun) or 96 (Fri-Sat-Sun-Mon)). If his unit is getting ready to deploy soon, all leaves would be canceled, but a pass is realistic.
WONDERFUL. Thank you. Technically his scene takes place on a Thursday but I'm not too concerned about that. It's fudgable and anyway no one in the scene says "hey, it's Thursday."

3) At home, he'd probably use his regular name, but if it was a formal situation he'd be Private Snuffy. Privates or Privates First Class are both referred to as Private in address. If he's a regular instead of a draftee, then PFC (E-2 back then) would be a realistic rank. He "might" be in line for Corporal if a) he's been in a couple of years and because he's a regular. They tended to get promoted ahead of draftees, but that's not a given. It also depends on what you have him doing. If he's combat arms (infantry, artillery, tanks) he might get promoted faster than someone in a service support (supply, medical, intel, maintenance, etc.)
Also VERY useful. I haven't really thought about what his actual job might be, but this is another place where details can boost dialogue. I suppose there's small preference that he's in a combat role because his mother should be fearful for his life. Not that he wouldn't be in danger in Korea regardless of his role, but you know. Below mrsmig mentions that her father was in paratrooper training. That sounds like an appropriately terrifying thing for my young man to do. Would it make sense at his rank and time of service (a year or two)?

I called up my 97 year-old mother to ask about their experience when my dad shipped over to Korea. My dad was in the Army (1st Lieutenant) and was stationed at Ft. Benning, Georgia while attending paratrooper school when he got his orders for Korea.
Thank you so much for asking her, and for sharing your parents' amazing story here.

Mom drove my dad and one of his buddies across country to catch their transport plane from an air base near San Francisco (she thinks it might have been Hamilton Field or Travis AFB).
WOW!

Yep, she was pregnant with their first child.
and more WOW!

I asked Mom specifically about your scenario, and she said that one usually got leave before shipping overseas, particularly to a combat zone - so your character's visit to his mother in NYC would not only be plausible, but expected.
Very glad to know this. Thanks again!
 

Larry M

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My dad's tour during Korea was Camp Crowder, MO -> Ft. Bliss, TX (ADA school) -> Ft. Benning, GA -> (Jungle School) -> Thule AFB, Greenland.

Yeah, think about that ... train in the desert, train in the swamps, assigned to north of the Arctic Circle.

That's the Army for you.

Richards's post made me think of something that you may find amusing, or maybe even helpful in your work. It's a quote from one of my favorite authors, Herman Wouk, in one of my favorite books, The Caine Mutiny. The quote was about the Navy, but Richard's post makes me think it probably applies to the Army and the rest of the military (no disrespect intended to our armed forces!)

The quote is spoken in the book and film by Lt. Keefer (Fred MacMurray in the film):

"“The Navy is a master plan designed by geniuses for execution by idiots. If you are not an idiot, but find yourself in the Navy, you can only operate well by pretending to be one. All the shortcuts and economies and common-sense changes that your native intelligence suggests to you are mistakes. Learn to quash them. Constantly ask yourself, "How would I do this if I were a fool?" Throttle down your mind to a crawl. Then you will never go wrong.”
 

mrsmig

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My mom has so many great stories from that time. It was a tough time for her because Dad's unit (187th Airborne Regimental Combat Team, 3rd Battalion, L Company, 1st Platoon) was in on some major action, and communications between home and the combat zone were erratic. For some reason she was also not getting her allotment from his pay (some sort of administrative mixup.)

She hadn't heard from him for some weeks when their first anniversary rolled around, and she was understandably worried. Nonetheless, she decided to celebrate by playing the record they had made of their wedding (yes, a vinyl record). And right during the "'til death" part of the vows the record started skipping and "'til death...'til death...'til death" repeated until someone had the sense to move the needle.

Fortunately, a day or two later a letter from Dad arrived, followed shortly thereafter by a check and a big bouquet of flowers. He'd arranged for the flowers to be delivered before he'd left for Korea, but for some reason the delivery was late, along with everything else.

As far as your question about paratrooper duty, I asked my younger brother (my family's official military historian) and he said there was no minimum time of service necessary to be considered for paratrooper school. You might want to do a little research into the 187th Airborne (also known as the Rakkasans) and its service during the Korean War, just to add veracity to your story - because I can tell you from being related to one, those military historians can be merciless if you get the details wrong.
 
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WeaselFire

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1) For Dix, New Jersey. Leave after basic training, hops a train and visits mom. If he's in basic, he doesn't get off base to see her until right before shipping out.

2) Train back to For Dix, transport to Korea from there. Most likely San Francisco, Hawaii, Okinawa and deployed. Probably not Tokyo, but could be, or Philippines. Likely all air, depends on the number of recruits but by Korea we ran a lot of air transport. Possibly flew commercial from Newark to another base, if you need that.

3) Rank is Pvt. He'd introduce himself as "Hi, I'm Bob. Martha's son." Military service may or may not come up, write what you need. Have him in uniform if you want.

4) It all depends on what your story needs.

Jeff
 
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Lakey

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As far as your question about paratrooper duty, I asked my younger brother (my family's official military historian) and he said there was no minimum time of service necessary to be considered for paratrooper school. You might want to do a little research into the 187th Airborne (also known as the Rakkasans) and its service during the Korean War, just to add veracity to your story - because I can tell you from being related to one, those military historians can be merciless if you get the details wrong.

I think that might be part of why I'm doing disproportional fretting about the details in this scene! This boy is on screen for maybe 1000 words, give or take, but in the event any military historians read my book (I should be so lucky that anyone finds it worth reading), I'd hate to have this scene be the ruiner.

And that said, his existence and imminent deployment does influence his mother's choices throughout the book; I'm realizing that this makes the details loom a little larger than just this one scene. And so it's not just for this scene that I ought to develop a clearer sense of what he's up to, but to strengthen the overall characterization of his mother.

So again: VERY grateful.

One more question: Suppose he has come from his base on a brief visit, before (for example) doing as mrsmig's father did, and hitching a ride across country to report to another base for transport. Would he have civilian clothes with him? WeaselFire said "Have him in uniform if you want," and that is how I imagined him arriving at his mother's restaurant, in fatigues, with a duffel bag slung across his shoulder. But if his mom wants to take him out to dinner, would he change into a civilian suit? Surely not a dress uniform, right?

I feel these are inane questions, and yet with each line I write, I think, "wait, does that make any sense at all?"
 

Larry M

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Another point I can add: Army terminology is 'post', not 'base.' As in, "I live on post," or "report to your post." I work on Fort Hood in Texas, and I hear phrases such as, "We used to live on post, but now we live in town (or off post)," and "I do my shopping on post/off post."
 

mrsmig

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I think any form of battledress (i.e. fatigues) would be inappropriate for this scene, particularly during that era. The 1950s were a lot less casual than today's military. My dad (who was career military) only wore fatigues if he was going to be out in the field; otherwise he wore whatever basic uniform was required for the season. If your character is on leave, he would most likely be in civilian clothes or, if he wants to show up in uniform to impress Mom, he'd wear his basic uniform. (This link may be helpful; pay attention to the dates because Army uniforms were undergoing major design changes during this period. The earlier in the war, the more the uniforms resembled those of WWII.)
 

Jason

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Lots of helpful advice here, but as someone who's been through Basic Training, MOS training, and knows the specifics, perhaps my .2¢ may worth sharing:

There are two types of Army personnel - enlisted and officers. Enlisted personnel receive one set of training, while officers go a different route entirely. Your story sounds like it has an enlisted person as the story character, so I'll explain that route.

When you enlist, you have a minimum of two schools to attend - Basic Training and AIT (Advanced Individual Training). Your AIT training will usually consist of at least one MOS school (Military Occupational Specialty) but perhaps more. Your schooling will be detailed in your enlistment papers, and often will be determined by a number of factors, including:


  • What jobs are needed
  • What your desired job is
  • What your defined skill sets are, as determined by the ASVAB (Armed Services Vocational Aptitude Battery)

Once these three factors are taken into account, every enlistee then goes to Basic Training. Basic training teaches basic combat and military skills ranging from how to march, to how to communicate, and of course how to clean, shoot, and maintain a number of different firearms ranging from an M16, to grenade toss, and pistols (the last only if you are going to MP school). There are a number of Basic Training facilities across the country - currently there are five: Ft. Jackson, Fort Knox, Fort Leonard Wood, Fort Sill, and Fort Benning. Others have mentioned Ft. Dix as a training facility - and historically it was, but is no longer part of that mission for the Army. The Basic training received is nearly universally identical regardless of where you receive your training.

Your AIT training may have more than one specialty. For example, an Infantryman may need to go to both Jump School and 11B school depending on what specific job they signed up for. Jump school and Infantry school training can be (and often is) completed at one location. When both are combined, soldiers would usually do everything all at one station - Ft. Benning.

Finally, and perhaps most importantly to your story - training is typically done OSUT - One Stop Unit Training. What this means is that you go straight from Basic Training to your MOS school, and then ship directly to your duty station, especially when the country is at war. Soldiers would usually get leave (usually a weekend pass) at the end of training but before shipping out. This would give them time to visit family, or take care of other *ahem* personal needs before deploying. It not only happened, but was encouraged to take a short leave before going off to "defend your country".

So, for your story, yes, it very easily could and most often did happen before deploying overseas...

*****
As a sidebar, it may be interesting to note that:

When not at war, or in a state of unrest, and only if you are training as a reservist (Federal Reserves or Army National Guard), you could do something called split training where you go complete your Basic Training and then return to your civilian job for a period of time before shipping off again to complete your MOS training. This is more common with students in college who cannot complete both sections of training within, say, one summer's time frame. However, this is unusual enough that when such circumstances are even logistically planned for, the student who is set up to split train, may be lumped in with the rest of the company of recruits as they are shipped off to MOS schools.

For instance, someone who is enlisted to be a Unit Clerk (75B) may train at Ft. Jackson, but erroneously get lumped in with the rest of the enlistees to go straight to Jump school and then to 11B school, even though their enlistment papers clearly said they are to train for 75B, not 11B. In such a case, the recruit may or may not say anything - because if they don't say anything, they could have a chance to become the only airborne qualified unit clerk in the military! :) Most likely though, this would be caught quickly enough to prevent the recruit from completing training prior to receiving their wings...even if they are only one jump shy of completion. :(

*****

Anyway, digression aside, your question is whether or not a recruit would have a chance to visit their mother prior to departing for Korea. The short answer is, yes it's possible.

The other question you asked is whether someone hitchhiking across the country would wear their BDU's. The answer there would be a most definite NO. You only wear military uniform when on duty, so if your duty includes travel (like todays day and age where soldiers fly commercially from one post to another), and you're getting paid, you would wear them. Otherwise, go civilian...you could optionally wear your uniform if you wanted (less to carry), but it's not a requirement.
 

Lakey

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Thanks for all the tremendous info, everyone. I'm a little embarrassed by my complete ignorance of the most basic details. :eek: You have helped a lot.
 

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I was researching something pretty similar recently, and found a lot of really interesting details in the accounts and records of veterans here.

And while it's not specifically covering the North Eastern states, there are some detailed accounts of the routes of travel here.
 

Richard White

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Mrsmig> I worked with the Rakasans from 1989-94. A rather rowdy bunch of guys. Course, they're all Air Assault now, but some do still go to Airborne school at Ft. Bragg now (the old Parachute school).

Lakey> I need to go back through some of Dad's old pictures to see what the 1950's Army garrison uniforms looked like. It's basically the dress uniform without the "Ike" jacket. This site might help. Also, just googling images of 1950s Army Uniforms might give you all the information you need. (Hmm, it seems Mrsmig gave you the same link.)

Unlike today's Army, in the 1950s, if you were traveling on orders, you'd be traveling in the garrison uniform. In fact, you pretty much lived in that uniform from the time you joined up until you separated or retired--in garrison, on the way to and from work (if you were lucky enough to live off-base), even out in the evening trying to meet girls to take to the movies. There was a separate "work uniform" to wear in the motor pool/cleaning the barracks, etc. Getting to wear civilian clothing was a real privilege back then. Wearing civies didn't become a real thing until post-Vietnam, where the Army loosened up a lot of regs to try and keep people in during the dark days of the late-70s/early 80s. Now, if you were on leave, and away from the watching eyes of your First Sergeant, well, you could probably get away with t-shirt and blue jeans, but hope your neighbor isn't some retired Col, or he may be asking where your uniform is, Soldier? *oops*

I know you said this is only a small part of your story, but if you get the chance, check out a few movies (Pork Chop Hill is a good Korean War movie if you want to see field uniforms. Heck, even things like The Sands of Iwo Jima or From Here to Eternity, even though they're both WWII movies, are great reference material. Uniforms and customs hadn't changed that much in the five years between WWII and Korea, and they show soldiers, sailors, and marines going into town off duty and doing duty around the garrison.

If you have other questions, I too have some practical Army experience.

OH, if you want to stay east coast but be further away from NYC, there's always Camp Meade (now the current Ft. Meade), MD, which was a large tank training base in the 1950s - second only to Ft. Knox.
 

Lakey

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Thanks again, everyone. :hi: This has been incredibly interesting useful.