Dialogue doesn't sound real

Are you confident in your betas? Because you seem to have avoided the most obvious flaws - or at least you're aware of them.

It might be something very simple - too many dialogue tags perhaps, or an unnatural rhythm that's putting people off.

You have more than 50 posts - have you tried putting work up for crit in SYW? Is that where you're getting this feedback?

*goes to look*

It's really hard to say anything without looking at the actual dialogue where the issues are.

I agree with mccardey - the easiest would be to be the piece up for critique in the SYW and let people know what kind of feedback you are after.

Thirding mccardey on putting up a snippet on SYW.

Aside from that, I always take note of good dialogue. Usually, when I'm enjoying the book I'm reading, I just want to read as a reader instead of a writer. That means I don't slow down to study how the author pulls off a particularly cunning plot, or how the author describes a really interesting character. I just enjoy it as much as I can. But afterwards, if I think, "Man, that was some amazing dialogue", then I'd flip through the book a second time, this time reading as a writer. I jot down notes on what was it about the book that leapt out at me, and how the author did it. It's amazing the things I miss as a reader. Small things which, when put together, bring the scene to life. Little informal bits that keep the dialogue sounding authentic. Stuff like that.

So I would go through my favorite books and just focus on the dialogue. Try not to get sucked into the story, because then it makes it hard to analyze the dialogue itself.

Agree with suggestion to use SYW.

Maybe there's too much 'whatnot' added and the dialogue doesn't get a chance to flow.

Nonicks said:

...My characters are NOT "talking heads" and they address the scene they're in, I also add facial expressions and beats and body language and whatnot, so it's none of the above.
Does anyone have any tips? ...

Thanks in advance!

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Bufty said:

Agree with suggestion to use SYW.

Maybe there's too much 'whatnot' added and the dialogue doesn't get a chance to flow.

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This is a good point too... It's a tough balance to maintain. One of my beta's said my last book read like a film script, probably too little 'whatnot' for them, but it's a fast paced novel and adding too much 'whatnot' would have slowed it down. It was only one beta who told me that, and I asked the others and it wasn't an issue for them. However, you say all your betas say the same thing... so something must feel off.

I do suggest SYW, also, I suggest reading crime thrillers, often there's a lot of dialogue in that genre that tends to flow pretty seamlessly. I do recommend that you read a lot in your genre and see what the trends are and how they use dialogue to reveal character. It is quite a craft element, and it' a good thing to get right... or is that write?

That's not a valid example. Impossible to comment on that in isolation, acknowledged as exaggerated, and without any context or genre.

Post something in SYW.

I agree with m'colleagues here. If you post an excerpt in SYW, we can look at it in context and offer suggestions.

But I'll stick my neck out and say that the example you posted* is too on the nose. The audience can put things together without the author having to explain everything.

*As Bufty said, it's an invalid example.

I agree, it's difficult to say from that sentence, but you could clean it up like this:

"Bring the boy over," the vampire drooled. "I'm thirsty." or "Bring the boy over," the vampire smirked, revealing red teeth. "It's time." So perhaps what you need is little tweaks to allow things to feel more organic or in situ.

Nonicks said:

Actually, the rhythm is just fine, the problem is with what people actually say . Ahh I don't know, here's an example. It's not taken from my MS and it's exaggerated, but it might explain my problem: "Bring the boy over," the vampire said. "I'll have a great time sucking his blood." There's nothing wrong with this sentence, it's just not something that a real person would say (not because he's a vampire and vampires don't exist, but because it's too dramatic). Yes, I think the problem is that it's too dramatic.

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Difficult to judge this since it's not a real example, but if it's similar to what you'd normally write, then one problem I see is that the vampire's response (the second part of it, not the first) does sound melodramatic. It's also obvious, or what some would call "on the nose." Everyone including the reader can be pretty sure he's going to enjoy sucking that boy's blood, so why would he say so out loud? Who does think he needs to hear this?

So, if you were going to revise this, you might ask yourself whether the vampire could say something else instead. It could be something unexpected or revelatory or horribly creepy in a way that shocks.

Before I read your sample, I had been going to suggest it's possible your problem might be that your dialogue is obvious, stilted, lacking depth, and/or leaning toward melodrama. As others have said, putting something up in SYW will help you, I think. And whatever the problem turns out to be, don't be discouraged. It's fixable with time and practice.

My two cents: Good dialog will flow from getting into character, like an actor. In some measure you have to adopt the vampire's persona and feel his hunger and his malice. If you can get into character, behavior and speech will tend to flow naturally.

Nonicks said:

"Bring the boy over," the vampire said. "I'll have a great time sucking his blood." There's nothing wrong with this sentence, it's just not something that a real person would say (not because he's a vampire and vampires don't exist, but because it's too dramatic).

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I don't know. Maybe a real person would say, "I'll have a great time doing XYZ." I just don't think a vampire would say it. It's something you'd say about a weekend trip to the Cape. There needs to be more malice, or maybe lust. I'm imagining the word "delicious" could be involved, although that might be a bit Bela Lugosi. How about, I crave his blood.

Nonicks said:

Actually, the rhythm is just fine, the problem is with what people actually say . Ahh I don't know, here's an example. It's not taken from my MS and it's exaggerated, but it might explain my problem: "Bring the boy over," the vampire said. "I'll have a great time sucking his blood." There's nothing wrong with this sentence, it's just not something that a real person would say (not because he's a vampire and vampires don't exist, but because it's too dramatic). Yes, I think the problem is that it's too dramatic.

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Think about how you might say something... would you say "give me that beer. I'll have a great time drinking it" or "pass me that apple. I'll have a great time eating it" like that? (if you don't like beer or apples, substitute with things you do like) I'm guessing the answer is probably not, because it's too obvious to mention. Your friends know why you want the beer/apple/whatever so you'd just say "pass the beer/apple" and leave it at that. Or not say anything and just get it yourself.

"I'll have a great time sucking his blood" also comes across like you're trying to use dialogue to give the reader information, like you don't trust that the reader already guessed that the vampire wants the boy brought over to drink his blood. Trust the reader to get this from context. You can use dialogue to convey information but it has to be done very carefully so as not to come across as forced, stilted or unnatural.

In the vampire example you gave, the vampire is lacking voice. He MIGHT talk like that, but it's very factual and flat. If he's factual and flat then that needs exploring; perhaps his emotions are atrophying or whatever you like.

More broadly, what words would your character use? I have a character in one wip who says things like "sedulousness" in casual conversation; it would sound ridiculous on other people but that's just how he talks. Another character doesn't use long words of any kind; she's a slave and poorly educated.

Where is your (hypothetical) vampire from? What's his culture, his influences, his education? Does he use too many words or as few as possible? Does he dwell in metaphors or is he plain spoken? Perhaps he's ashamed of his habit and resorts to euphemisms ("Bring the boy for his, ah, tutoring session.")


Whatever character you are portraying, their personality should ideally show in every line of dialogue, and provide insight into how they think of themselves and/or the world. The dialogue itself needs direction; where is it going, and what is its purpose other than conveying information?

Nonicks said:

Actually, the rhythm is just fine, the problem is with what people actually say . Ahh I don't know, here's an example. It's not taken from my MS and it's exaggerated, but it might explain my problem: "Bring the boy over," the vampire said. "I'll have a great time sucking his blood." There's nothing wrong with this sentence, it's just not something that a real person would say (not because he's a vampire and vampires don't exist, but because it's too dramatic). Yes, I think the problem is that it's too dramatic.

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If your dialogue tends to read like this example (yes, I recognize it is exaggerated, so that's not the issue), it may well be symptomatic of your problem. Which is this: You need to recognize what to leave out.

"Bring the boy over," the vampire said. is entirely sufficient. The second sentence is pure overkill. Every reader will know what the vampire intends; you don't need to have him express it.

And, me too, wants you to post a characteristic excerpt in SYW.

caw

Murffy said:

My two cents: Good dialog will flow from getting into character, like an actor. In some measure you have to adopt the vampire's persona and feel his hunger and his malice. If you can get into character, behavior and speech will tend to flow naturally.

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Just ICYMI, this is great advice. Play with your characters. Talk to them. Inhabit their world, get under their skin.

It's one of the best parts of being a writer, imo.

You could try (if you haven't already) reading it out loud. Even trying to write one scene as a play script and get a couple of mates over to act it out. They might be able to help you see where things sound 'off' and provide some input into what people might say instead. Of course, the characters of your friends might not be anything like that of your hypothetical bloodthirsty vampire; they might be blunt and to the point while he is verbose and poetic! But at least you get a starting point and you can tweak according to your character - but most importantly knowing what you are doing and why.

With your example, my first thought was of the vampire saying, "Delicious."

Perhaps something like...

The vampire stared at the boy.

"Deliciousss," he muttered, waving at _____(name of his henchman) to bring him closer.

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My only advice to add is perhaps imagine the scene unfolding in your head like a play or film. Then write down what the "actors" say as they talk to each other. That might make it more natural.

Hm...here's some ideas:

1. Go out in the world and listened to someone's conversations. No really. Pay attention to that stuff. If you can get away with it without looking creepy.
2. Find a conversation in a book you like and hold it alongside your writing, and see if you can spot the differences.
3. Someone said to read your stuff outloud, and that's a good idea.

Honestly though, this is that kind of thing that only goes away with practice. You just have to keep writing. You're probably having trouble because you might read more/different books than most people, and vocabulary from that culture/topic affects how you speak (source: I was the same way). You may also be writing out your thoughts, and thoughts in general tend to be jumbled and nonverbal, so they're clumsy in terms of outright clarity. There isn't really a magic cure for this, but the good news is that with enough practice/reading, you'll get through it.

IRL people rarely speak as they do in books. We interrupt each other, and talk in fragments - just to name a couple of the differences. Each person has something going on in their head, and so often the conversation twists and turns as those involved attempts (unconsciously) to steer it. If you wrote it that way, it would be nearly impossible to follow.

indianroads said:

IRL people rarely speak as they do in books... If you wrote it that way, it would be nearly impossible to follow.

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I agree. I had to read and analyze transcripts of actual conversations as part of my studies, and when I first started doing it, I wouldn't make sense of it (conversations between teenagers, for example, were so confusing I didn't know what was going on. There were barely any actual sentences) but then I familiarized myself with the transcript symbols and somehow started understanding what was going on.

When you're actually writing dialogue, you can't do that. You have to shape the dialogue according to the needs of the story, but do it in a way that appears natural within the story. For that, as others have said, you have to get into the characters' head - or simply immerse yourself in the story (it happens naturally sometimes, other times you have to consciously work on it)