What are the defining characteristics of MG to you?

Enlightened · Mar 22, 2018

Toothpaste said:
Anyway. I respect you have your values and you know your children. And it's for that reason that no one else is better suited to look out for them than you. If this means reading more kids books, then, you know what, that ain't such a bad deal. Kids' books are pretty awesome .

Another fantastic, respectful, and insightful post. Thank you. At my Barnes & Nobel, the MG section is isolated from the rest of the bookstore. Let's pretend that harsh content is filtered (and I agree, not 100% of it ever could be), in as much as it is moved somewhere else in bookstores or libraries, parents would have a perimeter their kids cannot go beyond. Sure, this is not the case at every bookstore or library. Can kids get these books with harsh content at other stores or school libraries? That depends on the locality.

I recall a scene from Chitty Chitty Bang Bang that spooked me, as a kid. The child catcher freaked me out, but did not scare me. Some things from Sid & Marty Croft (TV shows) freaked me out as well, such as Sleestacks (lizard humanoids that hunted people, if memory serves me right). These characters cannot be filtered out, and I get that. Regardless, there is content, placed/dumped into MG, that could be filtered somehow (for customer convenience).

Enlightened · Mar 22, 2018

Lauram6123 said:
No! That's not their job. That's my job.

As a parent of a 12-year-old, I don't need Barnes & Nobel or their employees to spoon-feed me and my kid suggestions about what is "appropriate" for him to read. He's perfectly capable of figuring out what he wants to read, and I'm perfectly capable as his parent of giving him the go ahead. I, like Cornflake, was reading Stephen King when I was 12, so uh...

Frankly, this discussion amuses me. In a time when he and his friends are inundated with gossipy group chats, social media, questionable YouTubers, and all-consuming video games, policing his reading is just about the last thing on my list of things to worry about.

It's not their job to place content in the store? It's not their job to make suggestions, to parents, if parents ask for suggestions?

mccardey · Mar 22, 2018

Enlightened said:
It's not their job to place content in the store? It's not their job to make suggestions, to parents, if parents ask for suggestions?

Do those suggestions come with the threat that Johnny will be ostracized if he doesn't adhere to them? Because I think in that case "customer convenience" might be - well - not the words I'd use...

Enlightened · Mar 22, 2018

Putputt said:
This would be like someone who’s only read GoT thinking they know enough about the adult category as a whole to opine on how they should be shelved. Not even adult fantasy, just adult in general. Sounds ridiculous, doesn’t it?

I never said I was an employee at a bookstore or library; i.e. one who is qualified to make opinions, to concerned parents, as to books (or where to place some books into a "tweeners" section). You are missing my point. There could be a customer convenience for concerned parents; performed by those who are qualified.

be frank · Mar 22, 2018

Enlightened said:
Regardless, there is content, placed/dumped into MG, that could be filtered somehow

OMG.

Again ... as you're someone who doesn't actually read MG ... wth are you basing this statement on?!?

Enlightened · Mar 22, 2018

be frank said:
OMG.

Again ... as you're someone who doesn't actually read MG ... wth are you basing this statement on?!?

I don't read MG?

Putputt · Mar 22, 2018

Enlightened said:
I never said I was an employee at a bookstore or library; i.e. one who is qualified to make opinions, to concerned parents, as to books (or where to place some books into a "tweeners" section). You are missing my point. There could be a customer convenience for concerned parents; performed by those who are qualified.

Yeah, except hose who ARE qualified (i.e. People who actually READ MG) have said repeatedly your suggestions don’t make sense, but you are continuously arguing and giving opinions based on something you jnow next to nothing about.

be frank · Mar 22, 2018

Enlightened said:
I don't read MG?

<cough>

Enlightened said:
I read MG very selectively, which is to say rarely. I'd say the last MG books I read are the early HP books, years ago. I do not purposely seek out books from MG to read. However, I do scan the MG section to see if any book may be of interest to me.

"I scan the MG section" doesn't count as reading MG books, fwiw.

Lauram6123 · Mar 22, 2018

Enlightened said:
It's not their job to place content in the store? It's not their job to make suggestions, to parents, if parents ask for suggestions?

I would guess they place books where their corporate headquarters tells them to. Employees might make suggestions, which is fine, but it's ultimately up to me as parent to decide what my kid can and should read. Frankly, I can't imagine depending on a Barnes & Noble employee for their insight on what is and what isn't appropriate for my kid to read. Some guy at Blockbuster once told my mom that she'd love Deuce Bigalow: Male Gigolo. Guess what? He was wrong.

Helix · Mar 22, 2018

Enlightened said:
I want to clarify your use of "removal." I suggested moving, not removing, some books to a tweeners section, as a suggestion. Length is a secondary issue, not my primary. My primary is content, and what is placed into the MG section.

You can't clarify my use of 'removal'; you can only clarify your own. As far as I'm concerned, you're advocating removing certain MG books from the section where they would be normally shelved to another category that you feel more comfortable with. I'd suggest that it's better to leave books where they are and let children and their parents purchase them according to interest and reading skills.

Enlightened · Mar 22, 2018

Putputt said:
Yeah, except hose who ARE qualified (i.e. People who actually READ MG) have said repeatedly your suggestions don’t make sense, but you are continuously arguing and giving opinions based on something you jnow next to nothing about.

It is not my intent to be rude, so I apologize to readers if this comment is deemed as such. At this point, I shall refrain from further comment of your posts directed at me, in this thread. No offense, these comments have crossed my threshold of courtesy. My concerns are not arguments or opinions; your words, not mine. My concerns pertain to product placement in bookstores. I think this is germane to the OP's query.

Enlightened · Mar 22, 2018

Lauram6123 said:
I would guess they place books where their corporate headquarters tells them to. Employees might make suggestions, which is fine, but it's ultimately up to me as parent to decide what my kid can and should read. Frankly, I can't imagine depending on a Barnes & Nobel employee for their insight on what is and what isn't appropriate for my kid to read. Some guy at Blockbuster once told my mom that she'd love Deuce Bigalow: Male Gigolo. Guess what? He was wrong.

Of course; your call on what your child is allowed to read. As per the movie suggestion, that is a management issue (i.e. hiring the wrong person).

mccardey · Mar 22, 2018

I can almost hear modly boots in the hallway... Everyone, hide!

- - - Updated - - -

They started it, Mum.

*points*

:2angel:

Enlightened · Mar 22, 2018

Helix said:
You can't clarify my use of 'removal'; you can only clarify your own. As far as I'm concerned, you're advocating removing certain MG books from the section where they would be normally shelved to another category that you feel more comfortable with. I'd suggest that it's better to leave books where they are and let children and their parents purchase them according to interest and reading skills.

I gave other suggestions (not just moving some books to a "tweeners" section). For example, employee recommendations to concerned parents. You are entitled to your opinion, absolutely. If moving is not kosher, for customer convenience, there can be some form of system at bookstores and libraries, for concerned parents.

Helix · Mar 22, 2018

Enlightened said:
I gave other suggestions (not just moving some books to a "tweeners" section). For example, employee recommendations to concerned parents. You are entitled to your opinion, absolutely. If moving is not kosher, for customer convenience, there can be some form of system at bookstores and libraries, for concerned parents.

Eyes. Parents can use their eyes.

Enlightened · Mar 22, 2018

Helix said:
Eyes. Parents can use their eyes.

Yeah, but do they have the time to do so; every parent?

Helix · Mar 22, 2018

Enlightened said:
Yeah, but do they have the time to do so; every parent?

Mate, you're infantilising them.

Enlightened · Mar 22, 2018

Helix said:
Mate, you're infantilising them.

I meant, in general, people are busy in today's world. In the grand list of priorities, scanning every book for what is okay, for their children, may not be something high on their priority list.

cornflake · Mar 22, 2018

Enlightened said:
Another fantastic, respectful, and insightful post. Thank you. At my Barnes & Nobel, the MG section is isolated from the rest of the bookstore. Let's pretend that harsh content is filtered (and I agree, not 100% of it ever could be), in as much as it is moved somewhere else in bookstores or libraries, parents would have a perimeter their kids cannot go beyond. Sure, this is not the case at every bookstore or library. Can kids get these books with harsh content at other stores or school libraries? That depends on the locality.

I recall a scene from Chitty Chitty Bang Bang that spooked me, as a kid. The child catcher freaked me out, but did not scare me. Some things from Sid & Marty Croft (TV shows) freaked me out as well, such as Sleestacks (lizard humanoids that hunted people, if memory serves me right). These characters cannot be filtered out, and I get that. Regardless, there is content, placed/dumped into MG, that could be filtered somehow (for customer convenience).

Wait -- who, in this scenario, is going to ensure that the kids don't move past the MG section of the bookstore?

If you know of a public library that restricts access to books by age, please share so I can call the ACLU to threaten their sorry asses.

Enlightened said:
Yeah, but do they have the time to do so; every parent?

Enlightened said:
I meant, in general, people are busy in today's world. In the grand list of priorities, scanning every book for what is okay, for their children, may not be something high on their priority list.

If they don't have the time, or it's not high enough on their priority list to scan every book their kids read to check the content, that is, again, their problem, no one else's. If it's not important enough to them to make the time to do it, I'm going to assume it's not important to them.

Enlightened · Mar 22, 2018

cornflake said:
Wait -- who, in this scenario, is going to ensure that the kids don't move past the MG section of the bookstore?

If you know of a public library that restricts access to books by age, please share so I can call the ACLU to threaten their sorry asses.

If they don't have the time, or it's not high enough on their priority list to scan every book their kids read to check the content, that is, again, their problem, no one else's. If it's not important enough to them to make the time to do it, I'm going to assume it's not important to them.

1. Parents, physically at the bookstore or library.
2. School libraries don't count?
3. Who said it was not important? Just because they don't have the time does not make it unimportant to concerned parents.

mccardey · Mar 22, 2018

Enlightened, your argument isn't cohesive. First you say there should be a something in place to stop young kids reading material that Other Children's Parents might find unsuitable for their own kids - because if Johnny reads it, the other parents might all stop their children playing with him.

Enlightened said:
I'll give you an example of how reading these books might be bad for kids....

Johnny reads one of these MG books (or more) with violence and disturbing imagery. He tells his best friends. Days later, his best friends tell him they are not allowed to be friends. Those kids told their parents that Johnny's mom lets him read these books, and they want them. An influential parent of the other kids gets the ball rolling with the other parents, and Johnny is left without friends. .

Then you say that it's not even up to the Other Children's Parents to decide - it's up some bookshop clerk

Enlightened said:
I never said I was an employee at a bookstore or library; i.e. one who is qualified to make opinions, to concerned parents, as to books (or where to place some books into a "tweeners" section). You are missing my point. There could be a customer convenience for concerned parents; performed by those who are qualified.

And then you say actually it might not be a high priority for parents anyway.

Enlightened said:
I meant, in general, people are busy in today's world. In the grand list of priorities, scanning every book for what is okay, for their children, may not be something high on their priority list.

So who are these rules for, and why, and if the issue (to return to your earlier point) is that Johnny might be bullied for reading outside the (unstated) guidelines - why not just make a rule that Mean Parents aren't allowed to encourage their kids to gang up on someone who reads differently? Difference is not punishable any more. Or it shouldn't be.

cornflake · Mar 22, 2018

Enlightened said:
1. Parents, physically at the bookstore or library.

If they're there physically corralling kids into one section of the bookstore, they can peruse the books, imo.

2. School libraries don't count?

In terms of the Constitution, not the same way, no.

3. Who said it was not important? Just because they don't have the time does not make it unimportant to concerned parents.

In my view, that makes it not important, yeah. If someone cares that much about what their kid is reading, I'd think they'd make the time to check into it carefully. If music matters to you, you make time to take your kid to the symphony, get them lessons, etc. If it's not a big thing for you, that's not a priority. If sports are a priority, you work your schedule to make sure your kid can do that. If censoring the content of your kids' reading material is important to someone, I think they make the time and put in the effort.

Enlightened · Mar 22, 2018

cornflake said:
In my view, that makes it not important, yeah. If someone cares that much about what their kid is reading, I'd think they'd make the time to check into it carefully. If music matters to you, you make time to take your kid to the symphony, get them lessons, etc. If it's not a big thing for you, that's not a priority. If sports are a priority, you work your schedule to make sure your kid can do that. If censoring the content of your kids' reading material is important to someone, I think they make the time and put in the effort.

This is my last post of the evening.

1. Maybe they are working while at the bookstore or library. There could be a number of reasons why they do not have the time or focus to do such activities.
2. School libraries [EDIT: may] have restrictions at the state and district levels that public libraries don't follow.
3. A filter could help these parents spend less time doing such work.

Although I think some of this derailed the topic, I still believe content and book length are legitimate topics to the OP's query.

mccardey · Mar 22, 2018

Enlightened said:
This is my last post of the evening.

This probably won't be my last post of the evening, but maybe they should just tell their kids what their kids are allowed to read or not read, and leave other people's kids to read what seems right to them - or seems right to their parents, if that's how they roll. And let the bookshop clerk (who is clearly working hard enough) get on with her job.

:Sun:

cornflake · Mar 22, 2018

Enlightened said:
This is my last post of the evening.

1. Maybe they are working while at the bookstore or library. There could be a number of reasons why they do not have the time or focus to do such activities.

Then is that not their problem? If they don't have the time to take their kids to sports, that's their thing to figure out too.

2. School libraries [EDIT: may] have restrictions at the state and district levels that public libraries don't follow.

Yes, hence I said if you know of public libraries that restrict by age. School libraries are what they are.

3. A filter could help these parents spend less time doing such work.

Seriously, why should anyone spend time helping them? Would I -- or should anyone -- spend time say, labeling areas of the MET where there are paintings and sculptures with explicit nudity or graphic violence?

Although I think some of this derailed the topic, I still believe content and book length are legitimate topics to the OP's query.

Really, should someone label the MET for parents who don't want their kids seeing sculptures with penises and paintings of beheadings?

What are the defining characteristics of MG to you?

Always Learning

Always Learning

Always Learning

not a bloke, not named frank

Always Learning

permanently suctioned to Buz's leg

not a bloke, not named frank

socially distancing

Always Learning

Always Learning

Always Learning

socially distancing

Always Learning

socially distancing

Always Learning

practical experience, FTW

Always Learning

practical experience, FTW

Always Learning

practical experience, FTW