What do you do with the books your agent can't sell/won't take on?

Pisco Sour

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I'm not sure this is the right place for this question--mods please move if it isn't, thanks!

Having had an agent last year who couldn't sell my YA sff novel, I have this book lying around. It's the first in a planned trilogy and I want to publish it. However, my current agent isn't too keen to shop it around. He hasn't said that outright, but I got the vibe when we spoke about this book. Probably because it's already been shopped to everybody under the sun.

So I'm curious as to what other people do when they have books their agents don't take on. Have you self-published these? Sold them yourselves, maybe to digital presses? Waited until current book on submission/being published is 'out there' and then tried to sell to shop this novel?

If you've done any of the above, how did it go?

Thanks!
 

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Very interested in answers to this question. I'm not at this point, but have been thinking about it for a book or two that are way outside the genre of my book on sub, so that maybe my agent wouldn't want to deal with them.


ps Sorry to hear your agent hasn't had any luck, Pisco. Very frustrating!
 

Pisco Sour

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Very interested in answers to this question. I'm not at this point, but have been thinking about it for a book or two that are way outside the genre of my book on sub, so that maybe my agent wouldn't want to deal with them.


ps Sorry to hear your agent hasn't had any luck, Pisco. Very frustrating!

Thanks! The old book that didn't sell was out on sub with a different agent. My new agent is subbing a entirely new novel in a different age category, and it's only been on sub for a short period. Fingers crossed it'll sell. At the moment I'm drawing parallels with trying to sell our house. Buyers take a look, buyers go. They say nice things and we bite our nails waiting to see if they'll ask for a second viewing.
 

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I would just publish it myself if I still thought it was good. Sometimes these people just won't take things because the genre is unpopular at the moment, or something arbitrary like that.

I was on another discussion group where there was a talk of (mostly readers) self published books and whether people read them. A few people said they often enjoy them better because they haven't been "commercialized" by agents and publishers so the ideas are a bit fresher.
 

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"A few people said they often enjoy them better because they haven't been "commercialized" by agents and publishers so the ideas are a bit fresher."


I'm sorry but this is utter nonsense. I mean, not the part about enjoying them more, that's just about individual taste, but agents and editors don't commercialize work. They either accept the book and do some edits (that the author doesn't have to do if they don't want to), and then there you go, or they don't accept the book in the first place. The work generally isn't altered drastically from the original (the only examples I can think of that are follow up books in a pre-existing series where the editor doesn't feel like it lives up to the first, and even then the few of my friends who have gone through that experience have way preferred the newer version of their work - sometimes it absolutely does take an outside eye to see faults). This is just not a thing agents and editors do. They work with the work, they don't change it entirely. That being said, I feel this statement has more to do about the kinds of books chosen by agents and editors. There is definitely something to be said about the lack of gatekeeping when it comes to subject matter. And if people prefer subjects that aren't on trend at the moment and self published books are found on that subject, then that's wonderful. But it's seriously not about changing an otherwise excellent book into something mundane and/or "commercial". (Now if you were talking about screenwriting . . . that's a whole other thing)

Pisco - to answer your question, why not talk with your agent about it? Usually they have solid advice for whether or not they think you should self publish. If you are keen and willing to put in the effort, I see no reason not to. But sometimes it's better to wait a bit. Or maybe do it under a pen name. There's a whole host of advice your agent can offer you.
 

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If your agent has no issue with you self-publishing it, I'd self-publish. If he can't sell it or is not interested in shopping it around, I don't see why he would have an issue.
 

Qwest

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I'm sorry but this is utter nonsense. I mean, not the part about enjoying them more, that's just about individual taste, but agents and editors don't commercialize work.

I don't agree that it's "utter nonsense". think sometimes there is quite a lot of trying to squeeze work into what the publishing market deems acceptable. I hear you about individual tastes, but I think this quote by UK super-agent Jonny Geller says a lot:

"Last year, when I read The Martian and saw Dr Foster on BBC, I began to worry about this issue. I enjoyed both, but guiltily. I had a creeping unease that had either project come into my office, I would have asked for edits to “clean them up” a bit. And I would have probably ruined both. People were talking about Doctor Foster at the water cooler because of its uneven and contradictory moments. But that is exactly what made this familiar story of adultery, different. Would we have edited out the very thing that made these stories stand out? Sometimes, books come to the reader directly from self-publishing because we in publishing do not think they work to our criteria.

Editorial taste is, rightly, a highly prized commodity in publishing – the battle between sales/marketing versus editorial vision is often talked about. What we in the publishing industry need to think about is: why we are so reactive? Are we listening to what readers want – originality, difference, dare I say, diverse voices? The bigger the publishers get, the more likely decisions become “corporate” and “strategic”.

The only “strategy” a publisher needs is to publish good books better.

The rise of the self-publishing phenomenon has resulted in, counter-intuitively, caution. The thinking is, I suppose, that these books will come to the big publishers eventually. Publishing is about sticking your neck out and daring people to buy the book you invested in.

Of course we all want dead certs based on what has sold before, but if we are not selling original material that only could have come from this country at this moment of time, and all agree to give it a chance, we won’t have much of an industry to boast about in years to come."

It's from here if you want to check out the whole interview:

https://bookmachine.org/2016/06/09/what-makes-a-bestseller/
 

Sheryl Nantus

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Talk to your agent about it. Be straight-up honest and see what he/she says.

They may recommend self-pubbing it, but be careful - it'll be a public record of you and your skills, so it should be as polished as possible and have all the bells and whistles you can get, including a professional cover and editing. This is going to reflect on YOU - when a publisher looks over an author, they're going to Google you and find that book.

Talk to your agent before doing anything.
 

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Save it until your contract runs out then find another publisher?

What a nightmare! all that hard work for nothing?
 

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Qwest - well first of all, this is one person's opinion not an objective truth. And who knows, maybe books ARE completely edited and changed upon acceptance to publishers, it's certainly not something I've experienced unless the changes were totally necessary (like if I'd turned in what I knew was a first draft and would totally need a lot of revision). But honestly, I think this article actually more proves my point than the one about editing things out. In fact almost the entire article minus the one bit you quoted is about publishers CHOOSING middle of the road material, not creating it:

We all say we look for new, exciting voices that will enlighten and inspire a new generation of readers and yet we find ourselves all racing for the middle, veering towards the same vanilla, reading group friendly fiction.
Why?
The agent blames the publishers for excessive caution. The publishers blame the booksellers for second guessing what they think their customers want. The reviewers – well they just keep getting sacked
.

Personally I stand by the point I made which I think is illustrated in that piece that the issue is less with editing out the stuff than the choice of stuff in the first place. Now that's not to say it never happens, but it's not as common as some self published authors like to think. And considering there is a perfectly valid argument to be made about the sorts of books chosen by publishers that supports the interests of self-publishing, I find this one not really as useful quite frankly.
 

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I'm not sure if that's directed at me or not, nor if you are implying that I'm dissing trade published books, but just for the record as a trade published author several times over who is friends with a great many likewise, my point is more that I don't know anyone who's editors/agents changed their work to something mediocre from something great. I'm defending agents and editors. I will say that the argument that the kinds of books trade published might be "safer" is a fair one to make in some circumstances, but as someone who's been published, again, I don't like to think my books are bland, mediocre, or quite frankly safe. I am merely offering a counter and more plausible argument than the idea that all these fantastic books are having the fantastic edited out of them. Trends are a thing, a desire to capitalize on the success that came before is a thing, so I can definitely see books that don't fit into a box at the current moment being turned down and finding more success self published.
 

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I'm not sure if that's directed at me or not, nor if you are implying that I'm dissing trade published books, but just for the record as a trade published author several times over who is friends with a great many likewise, my point is more that I don't know anyone who's editors/agents changed their work to something mediocre from something great. I'm defending agents and editors. I will say that the argument that the kinds of books trade published might be "safer" is a fair one to make in some circumstances, but as someone who's been published, again, I don't like to think my books are bland, mediocre, or quite frankly safe. I am merely offering a counter and more plausible argument than the idea that all these fantastic books are having the fantastic edited out of them. Trends are a thing, a desire to capitalize on the success that came before is a thing, so I can definitely see books that don't fit into a box at the current moment being turned down and finding more success self published.

I apologize for that post. It wasn't nice, and I shouldn't have taken my mood out on you.

I'm not holding my own work up as something non-mediocre, as it happens; but neither do I think editors really look for mediocre. I do think the system is designed to go for stuff similar to what has sold in the past on the assumption that it will continue to sell, and that could indeed be seen as "playing it safe." But that's just an artifact of publishing being a business: people have to get paid, and the best predictor of past behavior is future behavior.

There's this odd subtext to some of these conversations (not meaning you specifically, Toothpaste), as if agents and editors are somehow biased against anything original or innovative. I really don't think that's the case, one agent's opinion or not. They ALL want that golden unicorn, the unique thing that's going to catapult to the front of the list and change the game. But most of the books they get aren't unicorns, and a lot of the time those unicorns don't sell all that well.

That said, I've certainly had some people make some interesting suggestions to me. What's interesting is that I got diametrically opposed suggestions from different people in the same publishing food chain. "Safe" or not, it's still hugely subjective, and figuring out what will or won't go anywhere is a kind of alchemy I suspect isn't really all that well understood.
 

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Well I think it's in the interest of people promoting self publishing as a viable option to give the impression that trade publishing lacks imagination and even worse will destroy good imaginative works. It frustrates the heck out of me because I don't think my work lacks imagination and have had the most amazing editors really work with my writing and do everything they can to make my weirdness shine. Heck my very first book published by a big house was a middle grade book that clocked in at 80K, TWICE the normal length of an average MG. They took a risk with that big time. And don't even get me started on my agent, who is super supportive of my weird brain and how it manifests on the written page. So I mean that's why I spoke up in the first place to counter that argument that agents and editors are going around making writing mediocre. I just don't believe it. No matter what this one guy says.

That being said, I do know of excellent writers with excellent books that couldn't land a deal because it just wasn't what publishers were looking for at the time. And while they do want the unicorn, what tends to happen is after the unicorn is found, they keep looking for the same breed over and over, trying to recreate the magic. Until a different unicorn appears somewhere else completely.

So I don't think it's untrue that publishers sometimes don't take risks, but I also don't think it's true they never do. And I certainly do not think it's true that agents and editors are going around taking on books and then sucking the life out of them. There are plenty of excellent reasons to self publish, but doing it by vilification and/or believing in falsehoods is not the way to go. There is no need to set up trade vs self. It should be trade or self. Heck trade AND self. They can co-exist, and we can enjoy, as authors, the many options available to us that weren't always before.
 

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Well I think it's in the interest of people promoting self publishing as a viable option to give the impression that trade publishing lacks imagination and even worse will destroy good imaginative works. It frustrates the heck out of me because I don't think my work lacks imagination and have had the most amazing editors really work with my writing and do everything they can to make my weirdness shine. Heck my very first book published by a big house was a middle grade book that clocked in at 80K, TWICE the normal length of an average MG. They took a risk with that big time. And don't even get me started on my agent, who is super supportive of my weird brain and how it manifests on the written page. So I mean that's why I spoke up in the first place to counter that argument that agents and editors are going around making writing mediocre. I just don't believe it. No matter what this one guy says.

That being said, I do know of excellent writers with excellent books that couldn't land a deal because it just wasn't what publishers were looking for at the time. And while they do want the unicorn, what tends to happen is after the unicorn is found, they keep looking for the same breed over and over, trying to recreate the magic. Until a different unicorn appears somewhere else completely.

So I don't think it's untrue that publishers sometimes don't take risks, but I also don't think it's true they never do. And I certainly do not think it's true that agents and editors are going around taking on books and then sucking the life out of them. There are plenty of excellent reasons to self publish, but doing it by vilification and/or believing in falsehoods is not the way to go. There is no need to set up trade vs self. It should be trade or self. Heck trade AND self. They can co-exist, and we can enjoy, as authors, the many options available to us that weren't always before.

Yeah, I'm pretty sure I vehemently agree with you and have somehow managed to turn it into an argument. :)

I think there are a lot of good reasons to self-publish, but "trade doesn't buy truly innovative books" isn't one of them (although trade not buying your truly innovative book would certainly be one). Good books get missed by trade publishers all the time. They also get buried in the self-published masses all the time.

The more I see, the more I think the hardest part of this whole business - no matter how you get your book out there - is visibility.
 

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Marketing is by FAR the hardest part of all of this, for sure. And what's even more frustrating is that something that worked for one person/book doesn't necessarily work for another. Book publishing, however one does it, is a tricky odd business. That's why as authors we had better love what we do. :)
 

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Goodness, I went away for a few days and came back to all these comments. Thank you to everybody for your thoughts and ideas.

Re self-publishing, I have thought about it but currently do not have the resources to do it properly. Upon reflection, I'm hoping I can sign that overly-shopped novel with a solid publisher once my agent sells current book on submission. This is because I don't want to ruin the 'debut' author buzz and because maybe, after I've got a YA book published and if it does well, they'll reconsider the book they turned down. Worth a shot. I do agree there is more freedom in self-publishing, but at this stage in my career I prefer to work with publishers.
 

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Well, I think we're all actually trying to make the same point. I think there are authors who are great self-promoters and can do well from self publishing - but with a slickly edited, well beta'd book. In short, they work hard on their craft and hard on the promotion.

I was in no way saying that traditional publishing isn't full of committed agents and editors who do a remarkable job of putting wonderful books into the hands of readers! However, as with everything in life, I do think more experimental writers struggle to be heard. Personally, when I was querying I had two agents who wanted me to R&R - and some of their comments certainly were aimed at getting the book to fit in more with the market. So that's where it does get tricky, because, after all, it is a business, and it is about making sales. And that's where Jonny Geller's statement about "dead certs" feels a little awful for me, because they certainly feel dead to me ;)

Frankly, I'm no digital-savvy author. So, self-publishing isn't an option for me right now, and Pisco, I think you've got a good game plan. I'm with you there. I've got a book that's in its death-throes on sub, and I'm also hoping that one day, some day, its time will come.
 

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I have manuscripts no agent will even look at, let alone take on. But, in printed copies, they make good kindling for the fireplace on a cold winter night.

caw
 

Emily Patrice

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The more I see, the more I think the hardest part of this whole business - no matter how you get your book out there - is visibility.

I agree with this 100%.

I published a few years ago (don't tell anyone cuz I'm using a pseudonym now, but same publisher as you!) and what that gave me (among other things) was visibility in bookstores. My books were physically on the shelves (where I could sneak into the store and turn them face-out), and in the new release section for a while, and they were in catalogs so the booksellers were reminded of them and could recommend them to people walking in off the street. For a short while they had a chance to be seen.

Self-publishing (ebooks) is an entirely different ballgame but the aim is the same -- to rise to the top of the heap just long enough for potential readers to notice. There is just so much new material, it's near impossible to be seen among the hundreds of other new releases on Amazon that day (or that hour?!). You're certain there are readers out there looking for your book, but how do they find it? How do they trust it's any good when they have the choice of twenty other amazing-sounding books that just came out today?

In a few months I'll be facing this problem head-on... Still figuring out a plan to tackle it.
 

Qwest

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Self-publishing (ebooks) is an entirely different ballgame but the aim is the same -- to rise to the top of the heap just long enough for potential readers to notice. There is just so much new material, it's near impossible to be seen among the hundreds of other new releases on Amazon that day (or that hour?!). You're certain there are readers out there looking for your book, but how do they find it? How do they trust it's any good when they have the choice of twenty other amazing-sounding books that just came out today?
In a few months I'll be facing this problem head-on... Still figuring out a plan to tackle it.

Yes, this is the toughest part of the self-publishing model. It's the giant digital pandemonium, and without understanding algorithms etc, books are more likely to get lost in the internet vortex.
 

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That said, I've certainly had some people make some interesting suggestions to me. What's interesting is that I got diametrically opposed suggestions from different people in the same publishing food chain. "Safe" or not, it's still hugely subjective, and figuring out what will or won't go anywhere is a kind of alchemy I suspect isn't really all that well understood.

Coming late, but I just want to emphasize this because it's so true to my experience. Yes, we've all seen those deals that make us think, "That publisher is just following trends." But we never know the full story. Furthermore, we're not weighing these examples against all the deals that result from an editor simply falling in love with a book, which is something that happens in publishing far more often than, say, the equivalent in Hollywood, where no one wants to gamble a significant budget on an unknown property.

I doubt very much I would have been published without that factor. I was asked to revise my book quite a bit and make certain aspects of it more similar to a popular book, but I was never asked to change the bits I consider the weirdest and the most mine. I honestly think the result is better.
 
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I have an agent who tried to sell my YA SF novel without success here in Australia. He shopped it to the majors here, but no bites, so I'm querying overseas agents. I got three requests, two from the UK and one from the US recently, so I'll see what happens. Failing that, I'll go direct to smaller publishers, a method that worked with my published novel.

I have not considered self-publishing as I want an independent third party to agree with me that the book is good enough to be published and is willing to invest money to prove it. I was also put off the self-pub route after seeing the amount of work involved in producing a book of professional quality. I'm too lazy and it would cost too much to resource those services myself.
 

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I've never worked on a book which has been "commercialised" or otherwise edited into something it wasn't already. And it always makes me laugh when I read people who have never worked with trade publishers tell people how those trade publishers work.

Moving on, Pisco, talk to your agent. Ask them. Or if you aren't able or ready to do that, wait for a while. It could be that once your new agent has sold your latest project they'll be keen to look at other works you have. But for now, they have to make that first sale for you.