Another reason to hate the unfriendly skies of United

Roxxsmom · Mar 15, 2018

This airline has a pretty bad track record when it comes to flying pets, but this incident is beyond the pale.

https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo...rhead-bin-on-united-flight-airline-apologizes

A flight attendant insisted that a passenger put her dog (in a pet bag that met the specifications for stowing under the seat) in an overhead bin, and the poor animal died.

United has the worst record for accidents and deaths of animals on their flights, and the number of animal deaths on their flights doubled in 2017. This is also the airline that roughed up a passenger and had him dragged off a flight a while back. My gut feeling is that there is a workplace culture in place that has led to impatient and robotic employee mindsets. Not having access to information that would confirm or refute this, though, I can only guess why they are so awful.

darkprincealain · Mar 15, 2018

I randomly read about this before I deactivated my Facebook account. I'm not a United customer after their issues last spring, and never will be at this point.

ElaineA · Mar 15, 2018

The day after the story about the French Bulldog puppy death, came news that they'd routed a family pet to Japan instead of Kansas City. :Wha:

That one was probably more of an issue with the baggage handlers (don't even get me started about airlines firing and then outsourcing that once decent, union-paying job) but still, it's another mark against the airline. I abandoned United years ago. They'd have to fly me solo with a free, fully stocked bar to win me back.

Snitchcat · Mar 15, 2018

How is United still in business? Or at least, how is it continuing to make a profit? Rhetorical questions.

MaeZe · Mar 15, 2018

Made me cry.

cornflake · Mar 15, 2018

The whole story is just... also, the airline claiming the FA had nooo idea the dog was in the carrier is unconscionable.

However evil the FA is though, I don't understand people who actually put their dog in the overhead, I'm sorry. Just no. I don't care if a FA is insisting, no. Get the pilot out here, or I would, yes, if no other option, get off the plane, because just no. It's not happening.

As well, kind of fuck everyone on the plane who watched it happen, because see above no. There was a woman all over the news crying because she said she watched it, knew what was going on, HEARD the dog crying in the overheard and NOW realizes she should've done something. I mean it really doesn't seem like it should take a rocket scientist. Would you put a toddler in the overhead and sit back down for a flight?

Jason · Mar 15, 2018

With no kids, my dogs ARE my babies, and I'd exit the plane before that ever happened. If I was a passenger on that flight, as cornflake said, I'd have actively demanded to see the pilot -making him or her aware that an FA wanted a passenger to take their crated dog and place them in the overhead bin where there is no circulated air, and delay the plane for a new FA that actually was there to protect and serve (which is their main role btw).

I actually cried when I read the story...for a few minutes. That kind of truly senseless death for a puppy!!! It literally hurts my heart even now, knowing the barking was the poor thing trying to call for help and none ever came. The poor pup of ten months had no idea what it had ever done wrong. The presence of a village idiot in an FA uniform who should've never been there in the first place is all that was wrong!!!

Kjbartolotta · Mar 15, 2018

I'm confused by all of this, and quite frankly don't want to read much more than is absolutely necessary to get the facts. But y'know what? I can actually sympathize with the flight attendants a bit. You're absolutely at the bottom of the barrel, scared of getting fired at any moment, due to any shift in the wind. And your job requires you to oversee a worksite where everyone will die if even the tiniest things goes wrong. I'm sure there are people who have lovely experiences as flight attendants, but the stress must be crazy. I can see why they do such bizarre things.

All the passengers just sound like they want to get a Twitter following going. Lotta takes on how traumatized they were.

It sounds like everyone was just caught up in a weird psychodrama where they wanted to kill an animal. God, dogs put up with so much from us, just to be around us and maybe get a meal once in a while. They're powerless because they trust us, and look what happens.

Jason said:
With no kids, my dogs ARE my babies

Kids or no, I'm sure there are people in this thread who will agree with that.

travelgal · Mar 15, 2018

Nothing short of barbaric. Poor damn dog.

So glad I never flew with them.

cornflake · Mar 15, 2018

Kjbartolotta said:
I'm confused by all of this, and quite frankly don't want to read much more than is absolutely necessary to get the facts. But y'know what? I can actually sympathize with the flight attendants a bit. You're absolutely at the bottom of the barrel, scared of getting fired at any moment, due to any shift in the wind. And your job requires you to oversee a worksite where everyone will die if even the tiniest things goes wrong. I'm sure there are people who have lovely experiences as flight attendants, but the stress must be crazy. I can see why they do such bizarre things.

All the passengers just sound like they want to get a Twitter following going. Lotta takes on how traumatized they were.

It sounds like everyone was just caught up in a weird psychodrama where they wanted to kill an animal. God, dogs put up with so much from us, just to be around us and maybe get a meal once in a while. They're powerless because they trust us, and look what happens.

Kids or no, I'm sure there are people in this thread who will agree with that.

I get that it is a highly stressful job in the best of circumstances, and they're additionally dealing with petty customer service crap, serving drinks, arguing over $3 for headphones, yada yada. However, not only is it incredibly stupid to put a living being that breathes air in the overhead, it's full-on against regulations. So I have exactly zero sympathy for the fa, who should know the actual regulations, if nothing else.

Roxxsmom · Mar 15, 2018

cornflake said:
The whole story is just... also, the airline claiming the FA had nooo idea the dog was in the carrier is unconscionable.

However evil the FA is though, I don't understand people who actually put their dog in the overhead, I'm sorry. Just no. I don't care if a FA is insisting, no. Get the pilot out here, or I would, yes, if no other option, get off the plane, because just no. It's not happening.

You're assuming the woman had experience with flying animals. Maybe she assumed the flight attendant knew what she was doing and that the bin was ventilated and safe for pets. Maybe the other passengers did too.

And some people, most people, really do have a hard time standing up to people in positions of responsibility who give orders in an emphatic manner and seem to know what they are doing.

That's one of the take-home messages here. Never assume that someone who works for an airline, or anyplace else, who is going all authoritarian on you and snapping at you to do X, Y, or Z and shut up, actually knows their you know what from a hole in the ground. Never assume they are motivated by anything but short-term anger or irritation with something that is making their job a bit harder and are doing anything but mindlessly (or vindictively) swatting it away like an annoying insect.

Is the flight attendant a nasty person who doesn't think an animals' life has value? I don't know. It's possible, but it's also possible she's an irritable, overworked person who is constantly being chewed out by her supervisors when she uses her brain to make decisions on the fly or "wastes time" treating her passengers like people. Some jobs are just soul deadening and grind the humanity out of many people after a while. People in that position learn to stop listening to or caring about the people they are supposed to care for.

Maybe she really didn't hear all the people who were telling her there was a dog in the bag, because she's long since learned to close her ears to customer protests about requests to stow their bags. Or maybe she didn't know the bins aren't ventilated. Or maybe she didn't care if the dog died. I doubt we'll ever know one way or the other. Airlines never tell us what was going through the mind of the employee who did the unforgivable thing in question.

cornflake · Mar 15, 2018

Roxxsmom said:
You're assuming the woman had experience with flying animals. Maybe she assumed the flight attendant knew what she was doing and that the bin was ventilated and safe for pets. Maybe the other passengers did too.

And some people, most people, really do have a hard time standing up to people in positions of responsibility who give orders in an emphatic manner and seem to know what they are doing.

That's one of the take-home messages here. Never assume that someone who works for an airline, or anyplace else, who is going all authoritarian on you and snapping at you to do X, Y, or Z and shut up, actually knows their you know what from a hole in the ground. Never assume they are motivated by anything but short-term anger and irritation and a desire to get whatever problem they are having with you out of their face for a while, and to hell with the long-term consequences.

She argued with the FA though, so presumably she had an idea this wasn't right. She paid the $200 to have the dog fly in the cabin, made sure he had a carrier that fit under the seat.... I'm not suggesting she didn't love the dog; I don't understand how she did it. It's not like the freak who flushed her "support hamster" when the airline wouldn't let her take it onboard a few weeks ago; that woman I think did not love the animal.

I know, intellectually, people do have a hard time with confrontation and pushing back against authority -- it's never really been a thing for me (and I was encouraged to question authority as a wee flake) so it's hard to understand how someone gets that far without being like, 'yeah, NO.' Especially with animals. I just don't get it... I nearly got in a physical fight with a total stranger on a street once because I saw someone hit a puppy (not tap, HIT, like *wham* across the face). I didn't even think, was just like 'HEY wtf are you doing? NO' which... did not go over well. Luckily other passerby stopped and got between us and took my side (and called the cops). I don't know. Question authority.

Roxxsmom · Mar 15, 2018

cornflake said:
She argued with the FA though, so presumably she had an idea this wasn't right... Question authority.

I agree, and if any good comes of this horrible thing, I hope it's people realizing that it's on all of us to pay attention to what's going on around them and to stand up to authorities when they do unconscionable things or tell someone to do something that doesn't seem right--even if it's technically none of our business. Even if it gets you kicked off a plane or arrested.

Sometimes we have to be willing to step up and be the adult in the room.

Jason · Mar 16, 2018

As one who used to work for the airline industry and who had friends that were flight attendants, I can tell you for certain that the usoken mantra within the industry is:

“I am here to save your a**, not kiss it. Let me do my job, and THEN, if it’s safe to do so I will rise from my seat which is 99% less comfortable than yours to get you that precious Coke, water, booze, or other concoction you think you DESERVE. It’s a tin can moving through the air at 10K feet high, usually at 300mph or more, so safety is my FIRST concern.”

By the same token, an FA that has been approved to work in that environment is expected to know what the inhabitable spaces are, and which ones are not. It’s no secret tha circulated air does not vent through baggage compartments, because it’s baggage and thus does not need air!

Sorry, but I find the suggestion inexcusable, and personally think that while the FA may have been stressed or over worked or under paid, they should NEVER take leave of their senses like that. I would have been cornflake, rising up to demand the captain be brought out and informed of her suggestions then requesting their immediate removal from the flight as she is not mentally prepared to work.

I’ve also confronted complete strangers twice my size in dog parks when seeing them take a swing at a dog. Punch me down all you want m****r f****r, but leave the dog alone- it doesn’t understand you’re an a*****e, and it can’t sue you. Bring that s**t down on someone who can fight back.

Sorry, stories of animal cruelty really strike a nerve for me and that’s when I actually go gangsta!

Kjbartolotta · Mar 16, 2018

Well put all. I've had situations crop us simply riding the bus where the bystander effect causes everyone to ignore something horrible happening, if you try to be the one to speak up or intervene *you* get shouted down, not the person inciting the incident. I remember a few years there was that movie Compliance, which was a little too squicky for me but put it's finger of why asshole decisions like this are made. This incident made me think of that.

I also think they wanted to kill a dog. Maybe as a way to establish authority? It happens, more a complete disconnect with the value of a life that active maliciousness, IMHO, but it amounts to the same thing. Anyways, tryin' to see both sides, but I think you can put me firmly in the 'let's put them in an overhead container' camp.

Grateful for my nasty ghetto dog, who would rip everyone to shreds and go down in a blaze of glory with 'Freebird' playing in the background rather than put up with that kind of shit. Not that every dog should need that expected of them to, y'know, not die.

Jason said:
Sorry, but I find the suggestion inexcusable, and personally think that while the FA may have been stressed or over worked or under paid, they should NEVER take leave of their senses like that. I would have been cornflake, rising up to demand the captain be brought out and informed of her suggestions then requesting their immediate removal from the flight as she is not mentally prepared to work.

Don't be sorry, you glorious badass, you. I don't know what I would do, I don't fly on planes because I don't want to be away from my dog [ETA: Wisely removed the parenthetical, still mad the dog was on the plane]. I doubt my reaction would be calm or helpful, but at least it would be righteous.

hester · Mar 16, 2018

What puzzles me (and forgive me if this was already mentioned on the thread) was that the dog was barking intermittently throughout the flight. Wouldn't a FA have heard and figured out an animal was stored in the compartment (and that the dog shouldn't have been stowed away in an airless compartment?)

It's a horrible situation all around

.

cornflake · Mar 16, 2018

It's often less stressful for the animal and the people to fly than to drive -- three hour trip vs days in a car from Texas to NY in this case. The woman with the dog paid the fee to make sure her dog could be in the cabin with her, not in cargo or anything, got the correct crate. He should have been sitting right at her feet, where she could reach down into the carrier and pet him and speak to him and he could see, hear, smell, etc., It's normally fine if you can keep them in the cabin, imo.

Cargo is scary, but with larger dogs sometimes people don't have an option.

cornflake · Mar 16, 2018

hester said:
What puzzles me (and forgive me if this was already mentioned on the thread) was that the dog was barking intermittently throughout the flight. Wouldn't a FA have heard and figured out an animal was stored in the compartment (and that the dog shouldn't have been stowed away in an airless compartment?)

It's a horrible situation all around .

I don't buy that she didn't know the dog was in there for a second. First, as you note, he was barking. Second, several passengers all say the woman with him was very clear. Third, if an FA has such problems with English that she couldn't grasp that, she wouldn't be working a U.S.-based airline. It's just bullshit she didn't know, imo.

Tazlima · Mar 16, 2018

Something to ponder:

Brachycephalic (smoosh-faced) dogs like Frenchies are far more prone to breathing problems and overheating than other dogs. Several years back, I personally knew a french bulldog that died unexpectedly on her first plane ride (In the cabin, in a carrier, NOT in the overhead bin, the owner did everything right and had traveled extensively with her previous Frenchie without incident). The pup was approx. a year old and in perfect health at the time of the flight. They're delicate little things.

I could see a different breed or species fairly readily surviving such an ordeal, albeit miserable and half-asphyxiated by the end of the trip. The bins aren't ventilated, but they're in the cabin so they'd at least be a reasonable temperature.

In light of that, I wonder if this has happened before, the FA insisting someone put a pet in the overhead bin, and this is just the first time one died. If she had, that might explain why she was so unconcerned: "Don't worry, I've seen this a hundred times. He'll be fine."

Twick · Mar 16, 2018

It would be hard to stand up to a flight attendant these days. You're likely to end the flight hogtied and dragged off to jail.

Jason · Mar 16, 2018

Tazlima said:
Something to ponder:

Brachycephalic (smoosh-faced) dogs like Frenchies are far more prone to breathing problems and overheating than other dogs. Several years back, I personally knew a french bulldog that died unexpectedly on her first plane ride (In the cabin, in a carrier, NOT in the overhead bin, the owner did everything right and had traveled extensively with her previous Frenchie without incident). The pup was approx. a year old and in perfect health at the time of the flight. They're delicate little things.

I could see a different breed or species fairly readily surviving such an ordeal, albeit miserable and half-asphyxiated by the end of the trip. The bins aren't ventilated, but they're in the cabin so they'd at least be a reasonable temperature.

In light of that, I wonder if this has happened before, the FA insisting someone put a pet in the overhead bin, and this is just the first time one died. If she had, that might explain why she was so unconcerned: "Don't worry, I've seen this a hundred times. He'll be fine."

This would compound the error of her ways further. "Well, it's against regs, but I did it once and it was fine, so screw it, it'll always work out right" is poor logic/justification for how to handle living animals.

Twick said:
It would be hard to stand up to a flight attendant these days. You're likely to end the flight hogtied and dragged off to jail.

Just be firm but polite. "Excuse me, but I believe this is against FAA regulations, and since there is some question here, We should probably get the Captain involved since it's their flight, not yours. Could you please get him/her now and bring them out here to discuss what protocol is?"

But yes, you are right, if you get into a war of words with an FA, get belligerent, rude, or abusive with them, that's a one way ticket to custody with local LEA and your passenger ticket is then not refunded to you. Being polite but firm, and insist on following regs is not disrespecting them, it's respecting the safety of the situation and the position. If they can't deal with being wrong, they shouldn't be working in that capacity.

Tazlima · Mar 16, 2018

Jason said:
This would compound the error of her ways further. "Well, it's against regs, but I did it once and it was fine, so screw it, it'll always work out right" is poor logic/justification for how to handle living animals.

100% agreed. I didn't intend to imply otherwise. I was just saying I wouldn't be surprised if this were the case. People have been known to do very, very stupid and/or dangerous things because they took the risk once and came through unscathed. They're also liable to encourage others to follow suit.

"I've given dogs bones my whole life and none of them died from it."
"I've smoked in bed, and the house didn't burn down."
"Texting and driving isn't REALLY a big deal. I've done it before and I'm just fine."
"I didn't vaccinate my children and they're perfectly healthy."
Etc. Etc. Etc.

People frequently interpret dumb luck as proof of safety.

Let's say the dog had survived the trip, what would have happened? The owner might have complained to the airline. Maybe not even that, because at that point the owner would have anecdotal evidence contradicting their better, original judgement: "Well, the FA insisted, and the dog IS fine. I guess overhead bins are safer than I thought."

I'd bet money we'll see other people come forward to share similar stories with less tragic endings as they read about this and realize, "Holy crap, that could have been MY dog that died. If I'd know it was that dangerous, I never would have put him in the bin!"

In a way, this article doubles as a PSA, telling the public, "Don't put your pets in the overhead bin, even if the flight attendant tells you to."

MaeZe · Mar 16, 2018

Sorry, repeating myself a bit:

I'm on the end of the spectrum of folks who stand up against authority, and I break social norms all the time when speaking up, sometimes to my detriment. I would have insisted the FA show me the policy that says pets are safe in the overhead. I would have insisted another FA get involved.

But I have the utmost empathy for people on the other end of the spectrum. Not speaking up is in their genes, it doesn't make them bad people. No one should be criticizing the dog owner who probably had every reason to believe the FA that the dog was safe. When it stopped barking she probably thought it went to sleep.

I would not have known the overhead compartment had any less air than the cabin. I would have opened the compartment every so often to comfort the barking dog. I never let my dogs bark incessantly. It's like crying kids. When dogs in distress bark, they are in distress! I do fault the owner for that, but it pales in comparison to the FA and should have no relevance in the dog's death.

ULTRAGOTHA · Mar 16, 2018

Not obeying flight attendant orders can get you beat up and dragged unconscious from the airplane, in addition to being arrested. Especially on United flights.

Jason · Mar 16, 2018

ULTRAGOTHA said:
Not obeying flight attendant orders can get you beat up and dragged unconscious from the airplane, in addition to being arrested. Especially on United flights.

There’s a difference between not obeying orders and requesting the Captain intervene. See my prior post.

Another reason to hate the unfriendly skies of United

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