Another reason to hate the unfriendly skies of United

Roxxsmom · Mar 16, 2018

MaeZe said:
Sorry, repeating myself a bit:

I'm on the end of the spectrum of folks who stand up against authority, and I break social norms all the time when speaking up, sometimes to my detriment. I would have insisted the FA show me the policy that says pets are safe in the overhead. I would have insisted another FA get involved.

But I have the utmost empathy for people on the other end of the spectrum. Not speaking up is in their genes, it doesn't make them bad people. No one should be criticizing the dog owner who probably had every reason to believe the FA that the dog was safe. When it stopped barking she probably thought it went to sleep.

I would not have known the overhead compartment had any less air than the cabin. I would have opened the compartment every so often to comfort the barking dog. I never let my dogs bark incessantly. It's like crying kids. When dogs in distress bark, they are in distress! I do fault the owner for that, but it pales in comparison to the FA and should have no relevance in the dog's death.

I agree with this. You can get into a lot of trouble (even beaten up, as we now know) for disobeying the flight crew's orders. Some people are going to be more intimidated by this than others. I am surprised she didn't check on her dog during the flight, but maybe she was afraid that opening the bin would make him start barking again. Even if I'd had reason to think that the overhead bin was safe, I probably would have gotten the dog down once the flight was underway and the seatbelt sign was off (you're allowed to get your carry on out mid flight, even if doesn't fit under the seat), but she had two small kids she was dealing with too. And it's possible the seatbelt sign never went off for the entire flight. I've been on flights like that, and they won't let you get up, even to get something out of the bin.

If I thought my dog (or someone else's dog) were in danger, I'd risk arrest, but it's likely this woman and others on the flight didn't think the dog's life was in danger, even if it was unpleasant for him to be in the overhead bin.

It would be interesting seeing the jury selection process for someone who was arrested because they defied a flight crew's orders in order to save a pet. "Do you have a dog or cat? Do you like dogs or cats?" Yes to either answer, and the prosecuting attorney would want that person off the jury.

cornflake · Mar 16, 2018

ULTRAGOTHA said:
Not obeying flight attendant orders can get you beat up and dragged unconscious from the airplane, in addition to being arrested. Especially on United flights.

They hadn't left the gate -- hence the discussion about stowing luggage.

I, like Jason, am not suggesting I would, and am not advocating, getting in some screaming match. That doesn't help the situation.

I would, however, stand my ground like hell, even if my ground included ceding the seat, because the animal isn't going in the overhead.

I'd ask for another FA, or the supervising or head or sr. FA or whatever, on the flight, say I did not think it was within regulations, or in any way safe, to put a living animal in the overhead, because of air, turbulence, etc. I would ask for clarification on the FAA and United regulation on animals flying inside the cabin, because I had been advised that this carrier, yada yada.

If that didn't work, I'd ask for the captain. If that didn't work, and the FA insisted I put an animal in the overhead of deplane, yeah, I'm getting off and headed right for the desk, while I'm dialing every local news I can find. If they want to carry me off, they're welcome to; the people that raised me to question authority also taught me how to get arrested in a protest, heh. Be calm (and limp - always make them work for it), ask everyone around to tape it, and get it to a news crew asap.

frimble3 · Mar 17, 2018

Okay, a slight derail, still dissing United: this is their 3rd dog story in a week. First, the pup they killed, then, the dog they sent to Japan, now:http://www.msn.com/en-ca/travel/new...tally-had-a-dog-onboard/ar-BBKlLZQ?li=AAggpOh
They didn't know that someone had mistakenly loaded a dog onto their flight, and, apparently mindful of the bad publicity, they re-routed the plane to get the dog to where it was intended to be. (2 hour delay in the flight.)
BUT, aside from the rotten treatment of animals, what does this say about their security, that no-one is keeping track of the luggage. Luggage goes missing all the time, I gather, and it's only noticeable if it woofs,
but if no-one's keeping track, how easy is it to steal luggage, ship drugs, or (knock wood) slide a bomb onto a flight? Poke a few 'airholes' in the sides, mark it 'Live Animals' and wait to see what goes 'Boom!' Or, just shove a loaded suitcase onto the plane and hope for the worst.

cbenoi1 · Mar 18, 2018

frimble3 said:
BUT, aside from the rotten treatment of animals, what does this say about their security, that no-one is keeping track of the luggage.

That's assuming airlines have complete control over the luggage from check-in to plane loading, which is not the case . In the US, TSA does the bulk of that work.

Once an airline takes your bag and puts it on the carousel behind the check-in counter, it becomes the airport facility's duty to get it to your plane. That bag is X-Ray'd, walked over by drug-sniffing dogs, opened if necessary (that's why the TSA-mandated locks come handy), then routed to the proper luggage bay before being loaded onto the plane. That loading is usually done by a 3rd party, like Swissport.

How United has worst statistics than its equal-sized rivals Delta or AA? I have no idea. Maybe they have their hubs at airports which are problematic? Or they are running a string of bad luck? But when it comes to check-in and in-cabin protocols, they can surely do A LOT better.

-cb

frimble3 · Mar 18, 2018

The TSA is in charge of all these luggage screw-ups? Why is this of no comfort at all?

cbenoi1 · Mar 18, 2018

frimble3 said:
The TSA is in charge of all these luggage screw-ups? Why is this of no comfort at all?

The TSA oversees and controls security. Airports have operators and automated conveyors and luggage specialists to do the actual handling. All in all it's a secure place and nobody goes in there without a badge and being checked out.

Check out this video (from the Smithsonian): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jZ6yDNS12n4

Here is another one specific to Seattle-Tacoma (including how the luggage gets lost): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9wSNsTuXbfE

-cb

frimble3 · Mar 19, 2018

I'm suspicious of complicated systems, handled by many different groups. Remember the Air India explosion, Flight 182? Blew up over Irish airspace in 1985? There had been general threats made, and the plane would ordinarily have been checked by RCMP bomb sniffer dogs. BUT every single RCMP bomb-sniffer dog was across the country, in Vancouver, at some sort of training seminar. Finally, the provincial police sent a dog, but by the time he and his handler got to the airport, the flight had taken off because the airline didn't want to delay the flight any further.
The longer the chain of command the likelier for a link to snap.
United's recent history with dogs is only a symptom.

cbenoi1 · Mar 19, 2018

I'm not going to comment any further on conspiration theories.

-cb

frimble3 · Mar 19, 2018

You are right, I apologize for the derail and getting so O.T.

Another reason to hate the unfriendly skies of United

Roxxsmom

Beastly Fido

cornflake

practical experience, FTW

frimble3

Heckuva good sport

cbenoi1

frimble3

Heckuva good sport

cbenoi1

frimble3

Heckuva good sport

cbenoi1

frimble3

Heckuva good sport