What cliques mean for a midlist writer (ie: I'm sick of it all)

Qwest · Apr 11, 2018

S. Eli said:
Twitter overwhelmed me for those reasons--I'm REALLY not good at having an online personality. I'm a lurker at heart, and a homebody in real life, but I pretty much stay away from society in all forms, digital or otherwise, unless I'm at work (DIRECT EVIDENCE, I'M A PRETTY ACTIVE-ISH MEMBER HERE BUT I HAVE LIKE 200 POSTS LOL). I can turn myself "on," I just can't do it online, which meant Twitter for me was like watching everyone speak a different language, get cookies and prizes for it, but I don't know how they're getting their cookies and prizes because I don't understand anything that's going on. It's as everyone has said, just like high school, but even in high school everyone eventually finds their own clique.

If you find your confidence uncomfortably low, do what thejadevoice (and myself) have done and get rid of the space (or distance yourself) that is causing your doubt. Your world won't end without you being on twitter consistently, just tweetdeck some and pre-tweet, check in for some user engagement, and blast away. I have said on some other post, long time ago, that my dream has always been to be a reclusive writer, but even I feel the draw of the exclusiveness of some of the big name author circles. It's only natural to feel left out when they're your contemporaries, which is why you should disengage if it effects your process, and what you like about the craft.

Actually, I just joined twitter, and I avoid it. I did because I sense that if you want to be an author in this day and age, you "have" to do it. But I'm never on there, and there doesn't seem to be any point. I'm not much of a "have to" person anyway. I pretty much stopped going on facebook about nine months ago. It ended for me when a woman I'd just met came to our house for a drink... she grabbed her phone in the middle of a conversation and said: "I just have to see how many likes I've got on my last facebook post. The pictures of my pets are so cute, it's going to be a hit." When her post "only" had 14 likes she was mortified. Oops. When our lives are governed by how much online attention we're getting or not getting, then something in our society has gone horribly awry.

GoSpeed · Apr 11, 2018

lizmonster said:
I'm kind of glad I never got to meet the people who wrote my favorite books growing up.

That reminds me of the line, "I always wanted to be a radio personality, until I saw one in person!"

Dennis E. Taylor · Apr 11, 2018

I don't know about the 'cliquishness' of big-time writers, but I do know that the number of followers you have makes a difference. I have about 1500 followers. John Scalzi has 143K. Wil Wheaton has 3.2M . J.K. Rowling has 14.4M . Even in the complete absence of any cliquishness or arrogance, you're more likely to get a response from me.

I'm still at the point where I 'like' any post that references me (unless you're being a dick). I doubt if any of the other people I mentioned even read all their mentions and responses.

lizmonster · Apr 11, 2018

Dennis E. Taylor said:
I don't know about the 'cliquishness' of big-time writers, but I do know that the number of followers you have makes a difference. I have about 1500 followers. John Scalzi has 143K. Wil Wheaton has 3.2M . J.K. Rowling has 14.4M . Even in the complete absence of any cliquishness or arrogance, you're more likely to get a response from me.

I'm still at the point where I 'like' any post that references me (unless you're being a dick). I doubt if any of the other people I mentioned even read all their mentions and responses.

Due respect, but it's not about Twitter. I'm a nobody on Twitter, and I still miss stuff, simply due to the nature of the platform. I'm very well aware that volume is a thing, as is subject matter, and I don't hold it against anyone if they don't respond to me, whether they have 15 followers or 15 million. (And some of those writers with massive numbers of followers have been quite nice to me.)

This is a real phenomenon some of us have encountered. I'm glad for anyone who's managed to avoid it.

Fuchsia Groan · Apr 11, 2018

lizmonster said:
Due respect, but it's not about Twitter. I'm a nobody on Twitter, and I still miss stuff, simply due to the nature of the platform. I'm very well aware that volume is a thing, as is subject matter, and I don't hold it against anyone if they don't respond to me, whether they have 15 followers or 15 million. (And some of those writers with massive numbers of followers have been quite nice to me.)

This is a real phenomenon some of us have encountered. I'm glad for anyone who's managed to avoid it.

This reminds me, it took me forever to realize that people were sending me messages on Facebook! I hardly ever use FB and hadn’t downloaded Messenger, and I was getting some very nice messages from readers there.

In short, the more platforms you’re on, the harder being “available” can be. You never know what someone else might consider the universal form of communication (for me, it’s still email). I can respond whenever someone tags me on Twitter or Instagram, but I don’t go searching for untagged mentions of myself or photos of my book. Ok, maybe I have done that occasionally, but if it’s not tagged, I assume the person isn’t directing it at me and doesn’t expect a response.

I’m old-fashioned in that I don’t expect people, famous or not-famous, to engage with me on social media unless we have acquaintances in common, have already interacted on another virtual platform like AW, or something like that. I often Bookstagram my current read, but I usually don’t tag the author unless it’s a friend or friend of friends. It just feels weird, like tapping a stranger on the shoulder. How many followers the author has doesn’t matter much to me. I’m fine with being tagged myself, though!

Earthling · Apr 16, 2018

Maybe it's because I mostly follow romance authors and not YA, but I don't recognise this issue - and I'm a really active Twitter user (*cough*18,000 tweets*cough*). I find Twitter authors really supportive and encouraging, and I'm a total nobody - not even published yet.

lizmonster · Apr 16, 2018

Earthling said:
Maybe it's because I mostly follow romance authors and not YA, but I don't recognise this issue - and I'm a really active Twitter user (*cough*18,000 tweets*cough*). I find Twitter authors really supportive and encouraging, and I'm a total nobody - not even published yet.

TBF, I wasn't talking about Twitter at all, or indeed social media. Most people are very good at playing the "we're all in this together" game on line. I've had some lovely interactions on Twitter.

That said, the people I've had less-than-lovely interactions with IRL are beautifully positive and supportive on Twitter. About social media, I've kind of taken the attitude of enjoying myself and being sincere in my own posts, but never taking anyone's persona at face value. As they say, on the internet, nobody knows you're a dog.

Dennis E. Taylor · Apr 16, 2018

lizmonster said:
TBF, I wasn't talking about Twitter at all, or indeed social media. Most people are very good at playing the "we're all in this together" game on line. I've had some lovely interactions on Twitter.

That said, the people I've had less-than-lovely interactions with IRL are beautifully positive and supportive on Twitter. About social media, I've kind of taken the attitude of enjoying myself and being sincere in my own posts, but never taking anyone's persona at face value. As they say, on the internet, nobody knows you're a dog.

That's ruff. *ahem* sorry.

I didn't realize this was about IRL encounters. Honestly, I tend to avoid those, especially in large-group situations. In cases like writer's conferences, I find the random-table-sit-with-strangers thing to be torture.

I don't want to excuse people, because I know there are a lot of people out there who really are dicks. But I also know that extreme introversion can easily be mistaken for standoffishness. Just sayin'.

lizmonster · Apr 16, 2018

Dennis E. Taylor said:
That's ruff. *ahem* sorry.

Bad Dennis! No donut! :whip:

Dennis E. Taylor said:
I don't want to excuse people, because I know there are a lot of people out there who really are dicks. But I also know that extreme introversion can easily be mistaken for standoffishness. Just sayin'.

As an extreme introvert, I totally get this. (I myself tend to babble, which is a different problem, ugh.) And like I said, it's my nature to bend over backwards to make excuses for people. (I know it's a thing that people say, but: really, I'm rather nice IRL, and I'm approachable, and I tend to be reflexively friendly to new people.)

At the same panel where I met Standoffish Writer, I met another writer who was quiet and non-smiley with everyone, and not just those less well-known and successful than she was. I follow Quiet Writer on Twitter now. I don't bother with Standoffish Writer at all (and I'm sure she doesn't miss me

).

I've met some truly lovely people in this business. But it's got its share of asshats, for sure, as any community does.

RaggyCat · Apr 16, 2018

This is all interesting. I agree that you can't assume anything based on how authors behave on Twitter. In my experience, the people I've found to be both nicest and most supportive and inclusive on Twitter are authors I've met IRL first. After that, authors I've come to know off some other online platform. Authors I've tried to befriend purely on Twitter have been pretty standoffish. I get the feeling sometimes that there's a "I'm a more important author than you and you're beneath me to notice" vibe, but that's probably just me projecting. It's impossible to know, either way.

Robert J. Freemantle · Apr 24, 2018

AW Admin said:
Meh. Having written is the big hurdle, really, more so than being published.

Sure, a lot more people write books than actually publish them, but if you compare those who actually write the book (vs talking about writing the book, thinking about writing the book, research writing the book . . . ) just having written is a huge accomplishment.

All I could think about as you were saying that was Stewie! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NTSGp4UdEvQ

It's right that they mention it though, art imitates life.

Earthling · Apr 25, 2018

lizmonster said:
TBF, I wasn't talking about Twitter at all, or indeed social media. Most people are very good at playing the "we're all in this together" game on line. I've had some lovely interactions on Twitter.

That said, the people I've had less-than-lovely interactions with IRL are beautifully positive and supportive on Twitter. About social media, I've kind of taken the attitude of enjoying myself and being sincere in my own posts, but never taking anyone's persona at face value. As they say, on the internet, nobody knows you're a dog.

I find the opposite - people find it difficult to be rude in person but turn into keyboard warriors behind the screen. But I also see a lot of virtue signalling on Twitter, so I get what you mean.

What cliques mean for a midlist writer (ie: I'm sick of it all)

Qwest

Here on a catnap

GoSpeed

Dennis E. Taylor

Get it off! It burns!

lizmonster

Possibly A Mermaid Queen

Fuchsia Groan

Becoming a laptop-human hybrid

Earthling

I come in peace

lizmonster

Possibly A Mermaid Queen

Dennis E. Taylor

Get it off! It burns!

lizmonster

Possibly A Mermaid Queen

RaggyCat

Robert J. Freemantle

Earthling

I come in peace