Passive Voice. Is it really such a bad thing???

Avoiding passive voice is one of those "rules" that gets way over-applied. You shouldn't use it when there's something else that would serve better, but "better" depends very much on the individual case and, frankly, on individual opinions. If using passive voice is sapping the energy out of your scene, then yeah, you'd better cut it back, but if it's the best way to say what you want to say -- and quite frequently it is -- by all means use it.

Patricia Wrede has an excellent rant on the subject here: http://www.pcwrede.com/a-rant-on-passive-voice/

(Also, MSWord is not the god of writing, whatever Micro$oft might like you to believe.)

A quick note re: your other thread about overuse of the word "was."

"Was" is often used in constructing passive sentences (not always, but it's very common), so your two threads are likely addressing the same concern.

Tazlima said:

A quick note re: your other thread about overuse of the word "was."

"Was" is often used in constructing passive sentences (not always, but it's very common), so your two threads are likely addressing the same concern.

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My thoughts exactly. Changing from passive to active is the way to eliminate many "was"s. It's not required to do, but it does help.

Ex: He was attacked by zombies. > Change to "Zombies attacked him" and you have one less "was" and one less passive sentence.

Thank you is always the safe bet. If you don't want to post it publicly, you can click the little six-pointed star under a post on the left and privately thank them.

shrimpsdad said:

I am finding that MSWord is freaking out my overuse of passive voice. Really how bad is it? Will it stop a book from being published? I understand the concept but sometimes the sentence when corrected to the satisfaction of MSWord is on paper I don't like the formality. I like how the passive voice sounds on my ears. It's more alive and real the way people talk.
Am I "overly passive" about a really frothy faux pas? If avoiding passive voice is the industry standard then I will convert but before turning my manuscript into a medical journal I would love to hear some other opinion.

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My experience with MS Word, and many other grammar checkers for that matter, is that it often misidentifies passive voice to begin with. Maybe it's different with newer versions of word, but the one on my computer seems to think that any use of a "to be" verb in a sentence is passive voice.

So first of all, check to make sure you really are using passive voice in the flagged sentences. Passive voice sentences or clauses occur when the subject is being acted upon. Passive voice has a definite use in writing, but some writers do tend to overuse it. If you are consciously emphasizing a lack of control by the subject, or are consciously emphasizing a process over the actor, then it may be perfectly appropriate. However, if you find yourself using it unthinkingly or frequently, it could represent a habit you need to be more aware of.

Other uses of "to be" verbs (was, is, are etc.) can be overdone too, but you should familiarize yourself with their various purposes.

Sometimes you have to pick your poison. My early writing teachers instilled such a horror of "to be" verbs in me that I used to overuse filters. Almost every sentence structure poses problems if one overuses it.

Generally speaking, you should use active voice over passive voice. However, there are plenty of instance where passive voice works better. As you said, sometimes active voice can feel too formal. At other times, you want to place the emphasis on the object of a sentence rather than the subject. The best way to get a feel for this is to read good writing.

shrimpsdad said:

I am finding that MSWord is freaking out my overuse of passive voice.

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TURN OFF the MS Word grammar checker. It's useless for a fiction writer. Worse than useless -- it flags a ton of perfectly valid constructions, and frequently proposes "corrections" that are much worse than the original.

TURN IT OFF!!!!

Trust your own instincts and your human readers. If you genuinely have any grammar problems, someone will let you know in a critique. If not, you're fine.

See above comment by benbenberi. Grammar checker is

If you compare writing samples of passive v active, and you still think passive is the way to go, you're the boss of your ms. It's up to you. My personal preference is passive voice can be a tool, used sparingly and for maximum impact, but rely on active throughout the ms. Active is also kinder to your word count so you avoid clogging up your pages with unnecessary bits and bobs.

If you are worried, another option once you have 50+ posts is to put an extract of your MS on the Share Your Work section for critique.

shrimpsdad said:

I am finding that MSWord is freaking out my overuse of passive voice. Really how bad is it? Will it stop a book from being published? I understand the concept but sometimes the sentence when corrected to the satisfaction of MSWord is on paper I don't like the formality. I like how the passive voice sounds on my ears. It's more alive and real the way people talk.
Am I "overly passive" about a really frothy faux pas? If avoiding passive voice is the industry standard then I will convert but before turning my manuscript into a medical journal I would love to hear some other opinion.

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Avoid passive voice when possible. Use when necessary. The trick is to know which is which. Familiarize yourself with the passive construction, and review how published authors use the passive voice.

When you reach 50 posts, consider posting an excerpt in the SYW section of the forums. If you tag it with a request to review with passive construction in mind, you should get some specific feedback on the question relating to your own use.

Reiterating a couple of points from this thread and others on passive voice.

1) Grammar checkers are pants

2) 'Was' is not always passive voice

Passive voice can be a great way to get around overuse of "I"/"my" in first person. So can object agency.

There are loads of situations where passive voice is useful and some of the suggestions I've been given in the past for "upgrading" certain sentences to active were just plain daft.

CC Finlay has a good line about this--tools, not rules.

Harlequin said:

Passive voice can be a great way to get around overuse of "I"/"my" in first person.

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How? "I was thrown against the wall by zombies" uses I, where the more direct, "Zombies threw me against the wall" does not.

There are loads of situations where passive voice is useful and some of the suggestions I've been given in the past for "upgrading" certain sentences to active were just plain daft.

CC Finlay has a good line about this--tools, not rules.

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I agree. Sometimes you want to emphasize the process over the actor, or the actor is unknown (but the recipient of the action is known), or you want to emphasize the recipient's lack of control or agency from their perspective. I'm not sure how it would be used to limit personal pronouns, though.

The reason why many writing instructors and experts rail against passive voice is because beginning writers often overuse it when a more direct sentence structure works better. In expository writing, journalism and so on, using it can seem like the writer is weaseling out of assigning responsibility or agency to those performing actions. Who hasn't heard a politician saying, "Mistakes were made," to avoid assigning blame to themselves? In fiction, it feels cumbersome and roundabout most of the time, but it does have its purpose, both in dialog and narrative.

Also, some disciplines are notorious for using passive voice in their academic papers. When one is writing their materials and methods section in a science paper, the desire to emphasize the process d de-emphasize the person performing it leads to insufferably dry, indirect prose. Journal editors no longer require, or even desire, passive voice, but many researchers still use it out of habit, or emulation of the style they are used to reading.

Passive voice can be a great way to get around overuse of "I"/"my" in first person.

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How? "I was thrown against the wall by zombies" uses I, where the more direct, "Zombies threw me against the wall" does not

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On the other hand, "I hit the zombies" vs. "The zombies were hit." Sometimes rewriting into passive voice could eliminate an "I," I'd think.

Not to derail, [derail]but someone said zombies. [/derail]

benbenberi said:

TURN OFF the MS Word grammar checker. It's useless for a fiction writer.

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DO NOT TURN OFF the grammar checker. It is NOT useless for a fiction writer. Learn to use it as it needs to be used, to flag things that MIGHT be a problem. It does catch those, and it's up to you, dear writer, to decide whether or not something it flags IS a problem.

But more importantly, perhaps, the grammar checker will nail a lot of word misusages, typos, misspellings, etc., that don't get caught by the spell checker because they are legitimate words. Things like:

its v. it's
there v. their
to v. too
then v. than
etc.

Don't let the squiggly line drive you crazy. It's there for a reason, and it is your responsibility to understand what that reason is. If it doesn't fit your writing need, just ignore it. But it's a bad idea to turn it off, IMO.

caw

I don't use the grammar checker either. I catch grammar mistakes by reading and re-reading with my brain in copy edit mode. That includes printing out the story in a different font than normal, reading it as an ebook on my tab, whatever makes it fresh and strange to my eye. I hate the squiggly lines, and only use spell-checker during the last pass, never grammar check.

Passive is fine if it serves a purpose, as others said. It just depends on what you're emphasizing in the sentence. In general, though, strong verbs and nouns are the meat of sentences.

shrimpsdad said:

Very helpful. Thank you. Is it proper to say thank you after a question is answered or is it annoying and just another thing to read. Kind of like replying "Thank you" in an email.

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Good manners are never wrong.

As to your original question:

Ignore the Word grammar check. Better yet, turn it off. It doesn't know diddle about writing fiction. (ETA: With a nod to blacbird's opinion on this, if you feel the grammar check helps more than it hurts, then at least maybe wait until you're ready to start editing before turning it on.)

Do read that link to Patricia Wrede's rant. She's absolutely right. Sometimes passive voice is exactly what you want.

Sure, sometimes, but my point is that nobody ever quantifies active phrasing with "sometimes active phrasing is good, and sometimes inappropriate".

It's taken as a given that active phrasing is inherently fine provided you use it sensibly.

The same is true for passive. I don't feel I need to quantify sensible use for passive because I think t should be a given, too.

Harlequin said:

Sure, sometimes, but my point is that nobody ever quantifies active phrasing with "sometimes active phrasing is good, and sometimes inappropriate".

It's taken as a given that active phrasing is inherently fine provided you use it sensibly.

The same is true for passive. I don't feel I need to quantify sensible use for passive because I think t should be a given, too.

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Not sure if this was a reply to me for using the word "sometimes." If so, just wanted to note that I wasn't commenting on (let alone crtiticizing) anything you said, Harlequin. I was replying to a quoted part of what Roxxsmom said.