POV Issues. Help please

shrimpsdad · Mar 12, 2018

I am writing all of the character in 3rd person. The problem is that as soon as I leave the main character I obviously have to go to another character. The external circumstances are out of the main character's contol and impact his solo journey.
I am left with seven characters that need a tight POV to tell the story. I have heard that too many characters with tight "in the skin" POV is frowned upon by publishers. Does anyone know if this is true and how do I overcome this problem.
For example, a character is abducted. She has zero relation to the main character and is part of a subplot that ultimately impacts the main character but not until the end. We must feel her emotions to understand what she is going through. Planning her abduction "the bad guy" the story reads so much better seeing the planning through his eyes feeling what he is feeling. The governor is another character. A foe blackmails him with decisions he made years eariler. He POV is needed as well. The president is the vilian and his POV is needed to push the story. An undocument citizen is facing deportation his POV is needed. Way too many characters right?
Totally lost. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Bufty · Mar 12, 2018

Hard to help. It's your story and only you know what POV's are needed. You know whose story it is.

There's a difference between too many POV characters, and POV characters who contribute to the unfolding tale.

Incidentally, I am also totally lost reading the 'outline'. You appear to mention two victims, a blackmailer and a kidnapper, a citizen facing deportation, and a president who is the villain. You don't appear to mention the main protagonist.

All I can add is that usually, we need to know far more in order to write the story, than the readers need to know in order for them to read and follow the story.

Not much help, I'm afraid. :Hug2:

A brighter poster will turn up soon, I'm sure. :snoopy:

And a belated Welcome - :welcome:

Maryn · Mar 12, 2018

I'm not brighter, but I can reiterate a suggestion I've made about POV many times: read a single POV mystery or thriller. Don't let yourself get pulled into the story but analyze it as you read. How does the author get information to the reader about things that happened when the narrating character was not there? In most mysteries, there are a small number of methods, skillfully applied. Those are what you study.

Does the reader really need to experience first-hand, from the victim's POV, the emotion of the abducted character to feel empathy for what she goes through? Or does the way she looks and acts when the narrator needs to ask her a few questions post-rescue tell the POV guy she's in some way broken by the experience, confirmed by her boyfriend/mother/doctor sharing how worried they are even though physically she's recovering normally?

Does someone tell the POV character that info the reader needs, maybe under duress or while drunkenly uninhibited? Does the POV character find newspaper clippings, a journal, a password-protected document on the computer his shady pal can crack open for a price?

Literally grab a Robert B. Parker "Spenser" novel, any of them, and study the masters of single POV.

rusoluchka · Mar 12, 2018

I'll throw in here too and venture that you might be connecting subplots with POV. From your synopsis, it sounds like multiple subplots might be what you're trying to retain. Can you cut down the POVs but integrate the subplots to core characters? Sometimes a story, like a kidnapping, can be extremely gripping without being in the victim's POV. And don't get me wrong, you can find tons of published books with multiple POVs, but I'd be cautious.

BethS · Mar 13, 2018

shrimpsdad said:
I am left with seven characters that need a tight POV to tell the story. I have heard that too many characters with tight "in the skin" POV is frowned upon by publishers. Does anyone know if this is true and how do I overcome this problem.

The problem with that advice is that there is no set number where it becomes "too many." It's too many when the shifting POV drags down the pace of the story because each character has to have his say, or when there are so many POV characters that the reader has a hard time identifying with any one character. And finally, the more POV characters you have, the bigger the story becomes and the higher the word count. You need space to develop that many story lines.

Regarding which viewpoints to use, no one but you can say, "Use this POV but not that one." However, you might ask yourself whether a particular POV is attractive to you because it makes things easier or because without it, the story wouldn't work or wouldn't work as well. Also consider that sometimes a POV-character can do double duty: not only give the reader insights into that character, but also into other characters who are in the viewpoint character's orbit, thereby removing the necessity to show events from their perspective. And finally, sometimes it's advantageous to get the villain's POV...but sometimes it's far more suspenseful and interesting not to.

But if you truly do need to tell the story from a number of different perspectives, then you do. Just write the story and don't worry about what publishers are supposedly thinking. Good writing trumps just about anything.

shrimpsdad · Mar 13, 2018

I am really confused. Show 'vs Tell. When, how? How do I avoid omniscient narration if not through eyes of a character? When I wrote my ms., it read wonderfully, and then I got hammered because of show vs tell. I think of myself as a quick study but obviously not. I feel so stupid. Agh. So I went overboard. Now too many characters have a POV and the telling (in show vs tell) consequently removed. For example page one is a fighter jet blowing a civilian plane out of the sky. To feel tragedy, the magnitude of what the pilot of the fighter jet is experiencing seems so helpful to the reader for so many reasons. The suspense, his vacillation between pushing the "fire" button and what he thinks is free will but we all know soldiers have commanders and little free will, but still his moments of contemplation. His nerves are jumping making him almost vomit. He is not an Army Ranger or Navy Seal he is a pilot and now pushing a button that will end lives. The character is only in the ms. for one scene and then never heard from again. To me his POV is necessary. It is a page one hook and by the way it is written the reader is engaged but it presents a problem. One more character with a POV. So confused... I am having trouble understanding when omniscient narration is the right choice and when to avoid it. Why are more than one or two POVs in the story a problem? The narration of 3rd person omniscient can create the suspense needed. I guess any thoughts. Again thank all of you for such a wonderful welcome to AW. Everyone in AW has shown me such kindness and warmth. All caps THANK YOU!!!

BethS · Mar 13, 2018

shrimpsdad said:
I am really confused. Show 'vs Tell. When, how? How do I avoid omniscient narration if not through eyes of a character? When I wrote my ms., it read wonderfully, and then I got hammered because of show vs tell. I think of myself as a quick study but obviously not. I feel so stupid. Agh. So I went overboard. Now too many characters have a POV and the telling (in show vs tell) consequently removed. For example page one is a fighter jet blowing a civilian plane out of the sky. To feel tragedy, the magnitude of what the pilot of the fighter jet is experiencing seems so helpful to the reader for so many reasons. The suspense, his vacillation between pushing the "fire" button and what he thinks is free will but we all know soldiers have commanders and little free will, but still his moments of contemplation. His nerves are jumping making him almost vomit. He is not an Army Ranger or Navy Seal he is a pilot and now pushing a button that will end lives. The character is only in the ms. for one scene and then never heard from again. To me his POV is necessary. It is a page one hook and by the way it is written the reader is engaged but it presents a problem. One more character with a POV. So confused... I am having trouble understanding when omniscient narration is the right choice and when to avoid it. Why are more than one or two POVs in the story a problem? The narration of 3rd person omniscient can create the suspense needed. I guess any thoughts. Again thank all of you for such a wonderful welcome to AW. Everyone in AW has shown me such kindness and warmth. All caps THANK YOU!!!

Well, first, don't panic.

You can certainly choose to write in the omniscient POV if you want. It's a time-honored device, and writers are still using it today. Just be aware that if you choose omniscient, it will span the whole novel. The narrator is in control of the story at all times, which means he (you) can go deep into any character's perspective or can zoom way out to show the reader things that no main character is aware of. It's a powerful tool but easy to misuse as well.

For help with Show vs Tell, read some of the threads already here on that subject, and when your post count reaches 50, post a scene in Share Your Work.

Lakey · Mar 13, 2018

First, a technical point: There is a difference between the POV that is sometimes called “close third person” or “limited third person”, and the one that is called “omniscient.” In both cases you are writing in third person (he did this, she said that). But in limited third person, you are writing through the eyes of a character; you can describe only that character’s perceptions and thoughts. You cannot jump to another character’s perceptions and thoughts. So you can say, “Jane left the house and crunched along the gravel path toward her car. She had the most peculiar sensation of being watched. She paused and looked around, but saw no one.”

But in third person limited, you cannot add, “Jane did not see Rachel, crouching behind the great oak at the foot of the drive.” If you do that, you are in omniscient third person, in which you (as the narrator) literally know everything, and can go on to describe Rachel’s thoughts (“Her legs were getting cramped. She had thought Jane would never get out of the house”) or anything else you like. You can even go on to add “On Tau-Epsilon 3, the attack force was preparing its invasion.”

Omniscient can be tempting, but it is also difficult to write with discipline; you have to be careful about what you choose to say and not to say (since you have access everything, choosing exactly the right things to tell and to omit is not as easy as it might seem). And, you run the risk of confusing the reader by hopping from character to character.

Omniscient is an older style; you’ll see a lot of it if you read Victorian literature, for example. These days, most (not all) writers use third person limited when they are writing in third person. And that means sticking inside one POV at a time. That “at a time” is important - many novels use limited third person but switch the POV character from chapter to chapter (or scene to scene). You can do that; it’s fine to do, as long as you stick with one POV character throughout your chapter or scene, and are always clear (to yourself and your reader) about whose POV you are in.

And that brings us to your other question - how many POV characters is too many? If you’re being disciplined within each POV, and clearly switching only at chapter breaks, can’t you have as many POV characters as you need? In theory, you can - but in practice, you have to be rigorous about determining which POV characters you actually need.

You have said upthread that you need each POV character to convey the emotional impact of what is happening to them. That may be, but I would ask yourself - who is your novel really about? Who are the main characters whose emotional journeys the novel is following? You probably don’t have more than two or maybe three of those. And while events that happen to other people may have important ramifications in your main characters’ arcs, in your story it is the emotional impact of those events on your main characters that matters, not the emotional impact of them on the other people involved.

It’s worth thinking about this, and really focusing down your POVs onto the few characters whose stories are most important. You want your reader to identify with and sympathize with those characters. The more splintered your POV is, the less likely your reader is to connect with the characters you most want them to connect with. So look at each POV you have in your story and ask yourself: is the emotional impact of this scene focused on the person my novel is about?

shrimpsdad · Mar 13, 2018

Lakey said:
First, a technical point: There is a difference between the POV that is sometimes called “close third person” or “limited third person”, and the one that is called “omniscient.” In both cases you are writing in third person (he did this, she said that). But in limited third person, you are writing through the eyes of a character; you can describe only that character’s perceptions and thoughts. You cannot jump to another character’s perceptions and thoughts. So you can say, “Jane left the house and crunched along the gravel path toward her car. She had the most peculiar sensation of being watched. She paused and looked around, but saw no one.”

But in third person limited, you cannot add, “Jane did not see Rachel, crouching behind the great oak at the foot of the drive.” If you do that, you are in omniscient third person, in which you (as the narrator) literally know everything, and can go on to describe Rachel’s thoughts (“Her legs were getting cramped. She had thought Jane would never get out of the house”) or anything else you like. You can even go on to add “On Tau-Epsilon 3, the attack force was preparing its invasion.”

Omniscient can be tempting, but it is also difficult to write with discipline; you have to be careful about what you choose to say and not to say (since you have access everything, choosing exactly the right things to tell and to omit is not as easy as it might seem). And, you run the risk of confusing the reader by hopping from character to character.

Omniscient is an older style; you’ll see a lot of it if you read Victorian literature, for example. These days, most (not all) writers use third person limited when they are writing in third person. And that means sticking inside one POV at a time. That “at a time” is important - many novels use limited third person but switch the POV character from chapter to chapter (or scene to scene). You can do that; it’s fine to do, as long as you stick with one POV character throughout your chapter or scene, and are always clear (to yourself and your reader) about whose POV you are in.

And that brings us to your other question - how many POV characters is too many? If you’re being disciplined within each POV, and clearly switching only at chapter breaks, can’t you have as many POV characters as you need? In theory, you can - but in practice, you have to be rigorous about determining which POV characters you actually need.

You have said upthread that you need each POV character to convey the emotional impact of what is happening to them. That may be, but I would ask yourself - who is your novel really about? Who are the main characters whose emotional journeys the novel is following? You probably don’t have more than two or maybe three of those. And while events that happen to other people may have important ramifications in your main characters’ arcs, in your story it is the emotional impact of those events on your main characters that matters, not the emotional impact of them on the other people involved.

It’s worth thinking about this, and really focusing down your POVs onto the few characters whose stories are most important. You want your reader to identify with and sympathize with those characters. The more splintered your POV is, the less likely your reader is to connect with the characters you most want them to connect with. So look at each POV you have in your story and ask yourself: is the emotional impact of this scene focused on the person my novel is about?

First of all, thank you for such a long and well thought out response. I completely get it. Thank you. Truly thank you. I have much to think about. If you are not writing in close third person how do you describe the events without writing omniscient?

shrimpsdad · Mar 13, 2018

One last question, when writing in 3rd person not close or limited, just 3rd person. What happens when a character, speaks to herself aloud? Is that a cheat and something to be avoided or if only used from time to time is it okay? Does that stay consistent with keeping the "close or limited third person" only on one character?

To better clarify, “Jane left the house and crunched along the gravel path toward her car. She had the most peculiar sensation of being watched. She paused and looked around, but saw no one.” A hand appeared from out of nowhere covering her mouth. She wanted to scream but couldn't. She stepped hard with her heal onto the foot of whoever clutched her. A scream erupted, echoing against her eardrum. When Jane turned she saw Rachel. A beaten unsuccessful attempt at an abduction. Jane got in the car and left. Rachel said aloud, "I think she broke my toe. I wish I would have hired someone to take her out."
It's stupid but I didn't want to get too long-winded. We as the reader understand the emotions and thoughts of Rachel without being in her POV.

BethS · Mar 13, 2018

shrimpsdad said:
One last question, when writing in 3rd person not close or limited, just 3rd person. What happens when a character, speaks to herself aloud? Is that a cheat and something to be avoided or if only used from time to time is it okay? Does that stay consistent with keeping the "close or limited third person" only on one character?

To better clarify, “Jane left the house and crunched along the gravel path toward her car. She had the most peculiar sensation of being watched. She paused and looked around, but saw no one.” A hand appeared from out of nowhere covering her mouth. She wanted to scream but couldn't. She stepped hard with her heal onto the foot of whoever clutched her. A scream erupted, echoing against her eardrum. When Jane turned she saw Rachel. A beaten unsuccessful attempt at an abduction. Jane got in the car and left. Rachel said aloud, "I think she broke my toe. I wish I would have hired someone to take her out."
It's stupid but I didn't want to get too long-winded. We as the reader understand the emotions and thoughts of Rachel without being in her POV.

What you did there at the end with Rachel would be more appropriate to the omniscient POV. Although presumably, the omniscient narrator would not have Rachel tell herself about her own broken toe, which is going to sound odd in any point of view.

All limited-third means is that the narrative is limited to what a given character knows, observes, thinks, or feels. (It also should be limited to what's important for the story right at that moment.) If you want the reader to know what Rachel is experiencing, then put in a scene break and switch to her POV. But you would only do that if necessary for the story.

Limited third-person tells the story from the inside (of one or more characters) looking out into the story world. Omniscient tells the story from the outside (the viewpoint of the narrator) looking into that world. If you want to think of it in filmic terms, in limited-third, the camera sits in the head of the viewpoint character and records everything that's pertinent to the story from that perspective. But it can't record anything the character doesn't know or experience. In omniscient, the camera is always in the hands of the narrator and has the ability to do wide-angle, panoromic storytelling and zoom into the close and detailed view. It can show a broad perspective that no character is privy to; it can also go deep into the pysche of any character. Again, when pertinent and necessary. The one thing you probably don't want to do is use the camera to hop from one character's head to another inside of a scene.

Mary Love · Mar 13, 2018

shrimpsdad said:
“Jane left the house and crunched along the gravel path toward her car. She had the most peculiar sensation of being watched. She paused and looked around, but saw no one.” A hand appeared from out of nowhere covering her mouth. She wanted to scream but couldn't. She stepped hard with her heal onto the foot of whoever clutched her. A scream erupted, echoing against her eardrum. When Jane turned she saw Rachel. A beaten unsuccessful attempt at an abduction. Jane got in the car and left. Rachel said aloud, "I think she broke my toe. I wish I would have hired someone to take her out."

In this example, you're starting in Jane's head and ending in Rachel's (or omni). If you're writing in limited 3rd, this would be head hopping. Either chose a character (or have both with a paragraph break). If you're writing in omni, you might may want to take a little step back on the whole scene and plant more details so that the switch isn't jarring and Rachel wouldn't have to speak her thoughts aloud. (She rubbed her aching toe, watching the car speed away. Darn, I wish I would have hired someone to take her out.) Or you could easily keep it in Jane's POV because, as she's driving away, she could notice Rachel rubbing her foot and imagine what she's thinking.

This line is very omni to me: "A beaten unsuccessful attempt at an abduction" because it relays information without any character voice filtering through either POV. In Jane's POV, it might be something like: "wheew, not time." And in Rachel's: "Dang, she got away."

rusoluchka · Mar 13, 2018

shrimpsdad said:
First of all, thank you for such a long and well thought out response. I completely get it. Thank you. Truly thank you. I have much to think about. If you are not writing in close third person how do you describe the events without writing omniscient?

There are different tricks you can use, for example, would the event be newsworthy someone can hear about on TV or social media? Is the event under investigation be an amateur or professional where they would go about figuring out what happened and interviewing witnesses. Is the MC going to research the event. What sources or materials would realistically record the information he or she needs?

Are people gossiping about the event? There are a number of ways we hear about events and get the details. Put yourself in your main character's shoes and see how an event would impact them. Would they need to go looking for answers? How would they go about doing it? The hunt for information is sometimes more compelling than being shown the scenes from others' points of view.

Roxxsmom · Mar 13, 2018

shrimpsdad said:
One last question, when writing in 3rd person not close or limited, just 3rd person. What happens when a character, speaks to herself aloud? Is that a cheat and something to be avoided or if only used from time to time is it okay? Does that stay consistent with keeping the "close or limited third person" only on one character?

To better clarify, “Jane left the house and crunched along the gravel path toward her car. She had the most peculiar sensation of being watched. She paused and looked around, but saw no one.” A hand appeared from out of nowhere covering her mouth. She wanted to scream but couldn't. She stepped hard with her heal onto the foot of whoever clutched her. A scream erupted, echoing against her eardrum. When Jane turned she saw Rachel. A beaten unsuccessful attempt at an abduction. Jane got in the car and left. Rachel said aloud, "I think she broke my toe. I wish I would have hired someone to take her out."
It's stupid but I didn't want to get too long-winded. We as the reader understand the emotions and thoughts of Rachel without being in her POV.

There isn't just a generic "third person" viewpoint. Third person is a broad category that refers to any narrative viewpoint where the narrator uses the proper names (or he/she/their etc pronouns) to refer to all characters. No character is referred to as "I" or "you" in third person. Third person can be either limited (or subjective, as it's sometimes called) third, omniscient third or something called subjective third. There are also different narrative distances or depths possible in limited third and different styles or approaches in omniscient third.

If you are writing in omniscient third, which is when the narrator is external and knows everything, you need to be careful to make it clear that information is provided from the outside and not from a camera mounted inside the head of a viewpoint character. You generally would avoid using the character's voices outside of dialog or directly quoted thoughts. The way you've written the scene above feels more like limited third with head hopping. The reason it feels like limited third is because you're emphasizing Jane's limited experience and ignorance of her assailant--keeping the reader in the same dark that Jane is in--and using Jane's voice to relate the events. Then you switch to Rachael's perspective without a scene break or any other strategy to make it clear to the reader that the narrative baton is being passed.

But suddenly, we're in Rachael's perspective. The sentence "A beaten, unsuccessful attempt at an abduction" confused me, and I had to read it several times. I'm still not sure if it comes from Jane's perspective, Rachael's or is the opinion of an external narrator.

In omniscient third, when communicating more than one character's thoughts in the same sentence, it's important for the narrator to be in control.

cornflake · Mar 13, 2018

shrimpsdad said:
I am really confused. Show 'vs Tell. When, how? How do I avoid omniscient narration if not through eyes of a character? When I wrote my ms., it read wonderfully, and then I got hammered because of show vs tell. I think of myself as a quick study but obviously not. I feel so stupid. Agh. So I went overboard. Now too many characters have a POV and the telling (in show vs tell) consequently removed. For example page one is a fighter jet blowing a civilian plane out of the sky. To feel tragedy, the magnitude of what the pilot of the fighter jet is experiencing seems so helpful to the reader for so many reasons. The suspense, his vacillation between pushing the "fire" button and what he thinks is free will but we all know soldiers have commanders and little free will, but still his moments of contemplation. His nerves are jumping making him almost vomit. He is not an Army Ranger or Navy Seal he is a pilot and now pushing a button that will end lives. The character is only in the ms. for one scene and then never heard from again. To me his POV is necessary. It is a page one hook and by the way it is written the reader is engaged but it presents a problem. One more character with a POV. So confused... I am having trouble understanding when omniscient narration is the right choice and when to avoid it. Why are more than one or two POVs in the story a problem? The narration of 3rd person omniscient can create the suspense needed. I guess any thoughts. Again thank all of you for such a wonderful welcome to AW. Everyone in AW has shown me such kindness and warmth. All caps THANK YOU!!!

Your first post sounded like you were shifting POVs, but this sounds like head hopping, but I'm not actually sure what you're doing, heh, When you get to 50 posts, you'll be able to post an excerpt and it'll probably be clearer exactly what's going on. Don't worry, it can be fixed.

cornflake · Mar 13, 2018

shrimpsdad said:
One last question, when writing in 3rd person not close or limited, just 3rd person. What happens when a character, speaks to herself aloud? Is that a cheat and something to be avoided or if only used from time to time is it okay? Does that stay consistent with keeping the "close or limited third person" only on one character?

To better clarify, “Jane left the house and crunched along the gravel path toward her car. She had the most peculiar sensation of being watched. She paused and looked around, but saw no one.” A hand appeared from out of nowhere covering her mouth. She wanted to scream but couldn't. She stepped hard with her heal onto the foot of whoever clutched her. A scream erupted, echoing against her eardrum. When Jane turned she saw Rachel. A beaten unsuccessful attempt at an abduction. Jane got in the car and left. Rachel said aloud, "I think she broke my toe. I wish I would have hired someone to take her out."
It's stupid but I didn't want to get too long-winded. We as the reader understand the emotions and thoughts of Rachel without being in her POV.

Oops didn't see this -- yeah I think you're hopping, though I'm not sure who's meant to be thinking the unsuccessful thing. I also suspect you're overwriting, though this excerpt isn't really an example of it.

shrimpsdad · Mar 14, 2018

Thanks Cornflake. Great username. Super cute.
I got the answer I was looking for. Which simply put was, Is dialogue exempt from head hopping. The answer is no. Head hopping is not limited to only thoughts in the head of a character but can be seen through dialogue as well. Got it.

Bufty · Mar 14, 2018

shrimpsdad said:
Thanks Cornflake. Great username. Super cute.
I got the answer I was looking for. Which simply put was, Is dialogue exempt from head hopping. The answer is no. Head hopping is not limited to only thoughts in the head of a character but can be seen through dialogue as well. Got it.

If, when writing in Third Person Limited POV, you pick a Third person POV character through whom to relate any incident or series of events, you can only mention that of which the POV character is either already aware of, or becomes aware of, via his senses. Unless and until the POV character becomes aware of something you cannot mention it- no matter what 'it' is.

ETA-- This phrase - when writing in Third Person Limited POV - has been added for clarity, having realised my careless omission upon reading Roxxsmom's post below. Thankyou, Roxxsmom. :Hug2:

Roxxsmom · Mar 14, 2018

Bufty said:
If you pick a Third person POV character through whom to relate any incident or series of events, you can only mention that of which the POV character is either already aware of, or becomes aware of, via his senses. Unless and until the POV character becomes aware of something you cannot mention it- no matter what 'it' is.

Unless you are in third person-omniscient. A common problem is readers confuse head hopping (in limited/subjective third) with omniscient third. It even shows up in published novels sometimes, and it's confusing.

When Jane turned she saw Rachel. A beaten unsuccessful attempt at an abduction. Jane got in the car and left. Rachel said aloud, "I think she broke my toe. I wish I would have hired someone to take her out."

The reason this doesn't work in limited third is Jane could not hear what Rachel said after Jane got in her car and drove away. It's an abrupt shift of the narrative camera from a focus on Jane and her perspective to either Rachel's or to that of an external narrator who is seeing Rachel in Jane's absence.

In omniscient third, one can shift the camera like this, but you wouldn't be inside Jane's head the way you have written it prior to the shift in focus. You'd have to word things differently.

Omniscient narratives (in any person) can choose to follow just one character around and relate only their thoughts and perspectives, though. The difference lies in the sense of narrative control, or with the placement of the focus (outside looking in as opposed to inside looking out).

A way to think about setting up limited third is to ask if you could show or tell the reader the same information in first-person without feeling odd or confusing.

DarienW · Mar 15, 2018

shrimpsdad, a ton of great advice here. If you want to read more, check out the editor's blog. I added a link with POV in the search engine.

Stephen King's Mr. Mercedes had an omni POV that zoomed in to limited. (correct me if I'm wrong, kind critters. I mainly write in first.

) I didn't like it at all, but not because of POV. Only recommending because it like seems what you're shooting for.

Did you post a longer excerpt? If so, you can add a link here--just highlight the text and hit the globe symbol, then paste the link. I only say as i was a newbie once and didn't know you could do that.

Best of luck sorting it out! You're in the right place, coz I agree, the critters here rock!!!

maghranimal · Mar 16, 2018

BethS said:
The problem with that advice is that there is no set number where it becomes "too many." It's too many when the shifting POV drags down the pace of the story because each character has to have his say, or when there are so many POV characters that the reader has a hard time identifying with any one character. And finally, the more POV characters you have, the bigger the story becomes and the higher the word count. You need space to develop that many story lines.

Regarding which viewpoints to use, no one but you can say, "Use this POV but not that one." However, you might ask yourself whether a particular POV is attractive to you because it makes things easier or because without it, the story wouldn't work or wouldn't work as well. Also consider that sometimes a POV-character can do double duty: not only give the reader insights into that character, but also into other characters who are in the viewpoint character's orbit, thereby removing the necessity to show events from their perspective. And finally, sometimes it's advantageous to get the villain's POV...but sometimes it's far more suspenseful and interesting not to.

But if you truly do need to tell the story from a number of different perspectives, then you do. Just write the story and don't worry about what publishers are supposedly thinking. Good writing trumps just about anything.

Yeah, I was also going to mentioned omniscient. The book I'm reading right now is omni. But you're the only one who knows what POV's to include. Just try and don't change mid-chapter, as that can help with avoiding clutter and confusion. Also, make it glaringly obviously when you do change. Some authors even title their chapter with the POV characters (Song of Ice & Fire anyone).

POV Issues. Help please

shrimpsdad

Bufty

Where have the last ten years gone?

Maryn

At Sea

rusoluchka

BethS

shrimpsdad

BethS

Lakey

professional dilettante

shrimpsdad

shrimpsdad

BethS

Mary Love

rusoluchka

Roxxsmom

Beastly Fido

cornflake

practical experience, FTW

cornflake

practical experience, FTW

shrimpsdad

Bufty

Where have the last ten years gone?

Roxxsmom

Beastly Fido

DarienW

maghranimal