Does writing (or Art in general) require a certain level of misery?

Lise123 · Mar 8, 2018

Aw, Kjbartolotta, just aw. I have been there myself and grateful to be on the other side. I sent to art school and we have had this conversation a bit here and there. Overall I believe that dancers are the bravest of all artists. They are the mastheads of what society is feeling. It usually first shows up on dance. I admire dancers. They live it. Painters of which I know many, MANY. Are so brain oriented somehow. Our brains see things differently. One day we will be able to study it. I can not guess how writers are made. A lot of writers just have great connections and are fabulously wealthy and their books are published without a lot of effort on their part. Notoriety like Stormi Daniels whom I like very much somehow. We used to joke in this writing group I went to for a few years that we all should write a rambling piece of xxxx and strap it to our chest and jump of the eifel tower to get published. Some people are lucky. I would like to think that like anything if you get the right education or skills and work at it you will have some sort of success at it. I do believe that desperation seems to motivate people more than misery. Perhaps it is when talent and drive, driven by misery and desperation ie lack of better options, one is forced to create something that is other worldly, sublime, bigger than oneself. ciao

Harlequin · Mar 8, 2018

A lot of writers just have great connections and are fabulously wealthy and their books are published without a lot of effort on their part

Really? Nobody sent me that memo >.>

Fullon_v4.0 · Mar 8, 2018

I don't think quality, interesting art requires misery, but life experiences. Some people have more so good ones, and others bad. The important thing is to "feel" something.

Zan75 · Mar 8, 2018

I have a friend who would probably agree with you Sarahani - that misery helps bring out the best. For myself, not so much. I prefer being in a pretty good mood and looking forward to the writing experience.

Enlightened · Mar 8, 2018

Misery is but a state of mind. I think feeling miserable makes your work emotional/biased and, therefore, can produce irrational behaviors. Readers pick up on these.

On a related note, writers do drink, take drugs, wait till Mercury is in retrograde, or some bizarre rituals to write under their optimum levels. Nonsense. Ozzy Osbourne said it best. He noted not to worry about waiting for the moon to be aligned with the heavens (or something to this effect). If you don't start working, you'll be living under the moon, he exclaimed. If you wait to write when you feel something (in order to write), well, you are just wasting time.

I think people are highly creative, at times, when using mind-altering drugs or other substances (e.g. too much caffeine). I can see an argument for changing one's state of mind for producing creative inspiration. Lady Gaga and Scott Weiland created great music while each using different drugs (I think Marijuana for Gaga and harder stuff for Scott). I do not condone this behavior, but it's worthy of discussion. I recall Paul McCartney, not too many years ago, spoke at an awards show. He made a statement to get LSD legalized (to improve creativity of entertainment).

Ari Meermans · Mar 8, 2018

Enlightened said:
Misery is but a state of mind. I think feeling miserable makes your work emotional/biased and, therefore, can produce irrational behaviors. Readers pick up on these.

On a related note, writers do drink, take drugs, wait till Mercury is in retrograde, or some bizarre rituals to write under their optimum levels. Nonsense. Ozzy Osbourne said it best. He noted not to worry about waiting for the moon to be aligned with the heavens (or something to this effect). If you don't start working, you'll be living under the moon, he exclaimed. If you wait to write when you feel something (in order to write), well, you are just wasting time.

I think people are highly creative, at times, when using mind-altering drugs or other substances (e.g. too much caffeine). I can see an argument for changing one's state of mind for producing creative inspiration. Lady Gaga and Scott Weiland created great music while each using different drugs (I think Marijuana for Gaga and harder stuff for Scott). I do not condone this behavior, but it's worth discussion.

We do have those discussions from time to time, even here in RT; ex. Drugs and Writing. Let's keep to the current topic of the effect of misery (or mood, in general) on creative endeavors. Thanks muchly.

Harlequin · Mar 8, 2018

Surely that statement conflicts. If you only wait to write when your mind is perfectly balanced (and personally, I'm not sure anyone is ever in such a state) then isn't that waiting around to write?

Perhaps I'm biased anyway. I like emotional books; emotion is what I read them for.

lizmonster · Mar 8, 2018

Harlequin said:
Surely that statement conflicts. If you only wait to write when your mind is perfectly balanced (and personally, I'm not sure anyone is ever in such a state) then isn't that waiting around to write?

Yes. It's been said so often I can't find an original cite, but: you summon the muse by working.

Manuel Royal · Mar 8, 2018

I think it's valuable for a writer or any artist to have experienced both good and bad times. I'm not miserable, but have been there in the past and can understand it in a character. But I'm a lot more likely to get creative work done when I'm in a good mood.

Enlightened · Mar 8, 2018

Ari Meermans said:
We do have those discussions from time to time, even here in RT; ex. Drugs and Writing. Let's keep to the current topic of the effect of misery (or mood, in general) on creative endeavors. Thanks muchly.

Ah, gotcha!

Sarahani · Mar 8, 2018

lizmonster said:
Yes. It's been said so often I can't find an original cite, but: you summon the muse by working.

"Inspiration will come to you but it has to find you working." Pablo Picasso

I'll start with one of the most famous line in the history of literature "All happy families are alike, each unhappy family is unhappy in its own way."
The truth is that misery is part of the human condition, it is actually the only thing that is certain in life: I cannot guarantee my future children that they will experience happiness but I can guarantee they will experience misery. You can be miserable when you break up with you partner, get laid off, get betrayed, get sick, mourn somebody's death or so many situation. It has been rightly said to be a state of mind. It is a readjustment of our vision to what is and what is not. Beside some extreme cases we usually get stronger, wiser after such pain. Pain is our teacher and adviser. Since I would define an artist as somebody whose purpose is to unclothe humanity to expose his naked soul in all its facets. Hence I think misery is required, even a necessity.

Then I'll say that being well adjusted and feeling good makes it easier to analyze in retrospect, to order and translate that misery you felt into words. But as many have said, it is the experience that truly counts. Could Van Gogh paint the way he painted or Plath wrote the way she did if they were not depressed? Certainly not. Would they have done better? We'll never know. The only thing we know for sure is that they used what they experienced to create the best artwork they could.

mccardey · Mar 8, 2018

Harlequin said:
Perhaps we could say--all experiences influence a writer's writing, and significant ones significantly (good or ill).

This +1

Evelyn Michelle · Mar 16, 2018

The only requirements for writing are words on a page or screen. Strong emotions of any kind probably help with any form of art.

Polenth · Mar 16, 2018

In a previous discussion on a similar topic, someone was planning to do things to put themselves in danger, so they could face hardship and be miserable. I've known far too many people who put off things like getting help for illness, because they assumed they needed the pain and misery. Turned out they didn't, so they suffered for the sake of suffering.

That's the problem with assuming that creativity requires suffering. It isn't a hypothetical situation, where you can break out the philosophy and no harm is done. People will internalise the idea and try to live to that ideal. I'd rather encourage creative people to aim for the ideal of looking after themselves.

Personally, I don't produce anything much at all when times are bad. I'm spending my time dealing with the badness when that happens.

mccardey · Mar 16, 2018

Polenth said:
Personally, I don't produce anything much at all when times are bad. I'm spending my time dealing with the badness when that happens.

I do agree with this, and I'd like to go further and say that suffering =/= depression and that depression =/= misery and that neither suffering nor misery nor drugs nor mental illness are necessarily part and parcel of creative work and essential to it. They're not and they're not - it's sloppy thinking. Correlation is not always causation - and it's far too easy to make excuses or to valorise bad choices in the name of creativity. Creativity for the most part is something to be grateful for, not something to wail about.

Bufty · Mar 17, 2018

Doesn't quality creative output of anything boil down to a question of focus - and I can't focus if I'm miserable.

Maybe some folk can shut the misery out - I'm not one of them.

But because some folk may be able to do it doesn't make misery a pre-requisite.

folclor · Mar 17, 2018

I haven't read the entire thread so please forgive me if anything I say here has been said before...

I find my best writing is done when I have headphones in and just let it happen. When I'm sad and depressed (which is often), it makes it difficult to actually work. Then again, I know, as with everything, that works quite individually. My sister tried the road of complete misery (dumpster diving because she thought that was the better way to live, burning bridges in jobs because she felt she deserved that) and it has hindered her creativity as far as she's told me. Which is a shame. She's an incredible artist and author and I really wish she would willingly share that with the world, money or no.

But I think what's important is the desire to create, no matter the mood.

Does writing (or Art in general) require a certain level of misery?

Lise123

Harlequin

Eat books, not brains!

Fullon_v4.0

Shard Knight

Zan75

Enlightened

Always Learning

Ari Meermans

MacAllister's Official Minion & Greeter

Harlequin

Eat books, not brains!

lizmonster

Possibly A Mermaid Queen

Manuel Royal

Enlightened

Always Learning

Sarahani

mccardey

Evelyn Michelle

Evelyn Michelle

Polenth

Mushroom

mccardey

Bufty

Where have the last ten years gone?

folclor

Left-Handed Writing Fairy