“How many Jews were put in the ovens because they were unarmed?”

cornflake

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Said Don Young, United States congressional representative from the great state of Alaska. Also this:

“How many millions of people were shot and killed because they were unarmed? Fifty million in Russia.”

It's not just that it's stupid, offensive, ridiculous, etc., but it's a thing on the right. As noted in the piece, this has been posited before, by Ben Carson, among others.

I really don't understand the belief that a bunch of citizens (in some areas, mostly more rural and thus less populated), with handguns and shotguns, for the most part, could successfully put down the current U.S. armed forces. Like, aside from the deep, deep mismatch in basic firepower, the Army, Air Force, Coast Guard, Navy, have tanks, planes, ships, armoured vehicles, body armor, technology, drones, entire facilities dedicated to troop coordination and movement, but hey, don't let the gubmint take your Glock because you don't want to wind up like them jews thrown into the ovens. If they'd had a 9mm they'd... well, it'd have ended much the exact same way, because past the fucking 1700s or so, an armed citizenry is no match for a fucking modern army, but hey.

How is this still an idea?
 

regdog

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Don Young is the person who introduced the bill allowing hunters to shoot hibernating bear and wolf cubs, and allowing hunting from a plane. He is owned by the NRA and will lick their boots.

His declarations are astounding proof of his ignorance. Apparently he never heard of the Warsaw Ghetto uprising and that those who fought back were defeated, placed against a wall and shot.
 

be frank

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Honestly, what surprises me most about this is that the guy isn't a Holocaust denier.
 

cbenoi1

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I really don't understand the belief that a bunch of citizens (in some areas, mostly more rural and thus less populated), with handguns and shotguns, for the most part, could successfully put down the current U.S. armed forces.
Because they got it wrong. What stops a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a much bigger gun, body armor, and a badge.

-cb
 

Atlantic12

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Wow. They were put in the ovens because they were unarmed? I thought it was because they were Jews.

If Young is referring to Russians under Stalin (I have no idea what he's referring to, actually), I'd guess that a "good" guy with a gun wasn't going to get far trying to shoot down NWKD or Cheka agents.

He seems to be equating a police state with a society where most people don't (or aren't allowed) to have guns.

What an idiot.
 

Xelebes

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Don Young doesn't remember the Warsaw Uprising now does he? Nor does he remember the Trail of Tears?
 

blacbird

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Don Young is my congressional representative, and he's been a catastrophe for four decades now. In this deeply-red state, the R person gets the votes, regardless of who they are, generally. He's running again, for term 24 I think, and will almost certainly win.

caw
 

Roxxsmom

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I guess he never heard about the Warsaw Ghetto Uprising. Those people were armed and it didn't do them any good.

As others have said in this thread, Civilians with guns aren't a match for a modern army.

Don Young doesn't remember the Warsaw Uprising now does he? Nor does he remember the Trail of Tears?

Opps, see you had the same thought I did.
 
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RichardGarfinkle

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I've tried three times over the last couple of days to respond to this thread, and I haven't been able to contain fury enough to say anything coherent. But I'll give this a shot.

Here's a variant of Godwin's Law that I'm writing in a very abstract form to keep the fury at bay.

If your argument for something is of the form, "If only victim x had done action y or had possessed object z, then they wouldn't have been hurt." then you are
1. Victim blaming.
2. Justifying the immoral actions of those who hurt victim x.
3. Just plain lying.
4-6. Deleted for now because I can't find a non-furious way to say them.
 

Larry M

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I've tried three times over the last couple of days to respond to this thread, and I haven't been able to contain fury enough to say anything coherent. But I'll give this a shot.

Here's a variant of Godwin's Law that I'm writing in a very abstract form to keep the fury at bay.

If your argument for something is of the form, "If only victim x had done action y or had possessed object z, then they wouldn't have been hurt." then you are
1. Victim blaming.
2. Justifying the immoral actions of those who hurt victim x.
3. Just plain lying.
4-6. Deleted for now because I can't find a non-furious way to say them.

Well put.
 

Barbara R.

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Honestly, what surprises me most about this is that the guy isn't a Holocaust denier.

I was thinking the very same thing when I got to your post. But he is saying that Jews were complicit in their own slaughter, so he's not far off.
 

Roxxsmom

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I've tried three times over the last couple of days to respond to this thread, and I haven't been able to contain fury enough to say anything coherent. But I'll give this a shot.

Here's a variant of Godwin's Law that I'm writing in a very abstract form to keep the fury at bay.

If your argument for something is of the form, "If only victim x had done action y or had possessed object z, then they wouldn't have been hurt." then you are
1. Victim blaming.
2. Justifying the immoral actions of those who hurt victim x.
3. Just plain lying.
4-6. Deleted for now because I can't find a non-furious way to say them.

Yep. Paired with horrifically callous insensitivity and either an unforgivable ignorance of actual history, or the belief that those one is speaking to are ignorant.

It is utterly despicable.
 
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konstantineblacke

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So sad that the wheels of propaganda keep turning...
 
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Albedo

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Hey now, don't go blaming the lizard-people for him, either. Our reptilian overlords are cool, calculating and collected. They're not ... whatever this a-hole is.