To what extent am I free to object to my editor's changes?

bluebug

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I'm trying to look at the big picture here, which is that my second story got accepted. Trying not to look a gift horse in the mouth, and trying to remember that in the end it's not a novel or anything, just a short story barely over 1k. I'm tempted to just tell the editor I love all the changes and to go ahead, but I'm wondering if that's not very professional. I honestly love many of the changes she made, but I'd like to put back my original beginning sentence and one other line that she removed. But I'm wondering if it's sheer idiocy and ingratitude to even question her decisions. She did transform my weak ending into a great strong one, and she added a hilarious part that cracked me up. I know important authors have the clout to object and insist on whatever they want, but do regular people like me really have enough insight to object? I'd hate to come across as rude or presumptuous.

In a nutshell, to what extent are writers who are starting out in the world of paid publications allowed or expected to object to editor changes?

I will be extremely grateful to any help anyone would be kind enough to give me here. Thank you.
 

Old Hack

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It's your name on the story, not your editor's. You can object to all the changes you want.

However, your editor can also refuse to publish the piece if it doesn't make the grade.
 

bluebug

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Thank you so much for helping me out.

Yes, I'm worried about it coming to that. I avoid confrontations like the plague in real life and have a huge problem being assertive, so I'm relieved I can now decide to just go with what she's decided given the very real concern that she might refuse to publish the story.

I know she reassured me to feel free to make any suggestions, but I think it's one of those polite things you always end an email with. It's an unspoken agreed-upon truth that I should stick with her view.

Again, thanks so much for replying so fast. Have a great day.
 

Chris P

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When my (so far) only commercially published novel was going to through editing, in some cases the editor's comments were right on and made it better, and in other cases I explained the purpose of a scene she suggested I cut and she replied with "I can't believe I missed that" and in it stayed. So it pays to both be open and to speak up.
 

bluebug

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Thank you so much for helping me out. You've given me hope that if I mention my suggestions nicely they might not come across as rude.

Can I trouble you with something else? There were a few simple typos (really simple, about three, one of which isn't really a typo but more about a missing hyphen). Would it be rude to correct those and re-attach the document? Should I point them out without actually correcting them? Or should I say nothing, given that the story will probably be copyedited anyway? I used to copyedit and I spot these things and itch to change them. I'm also worried she might be testing me... or is that too paranoid?

If these questions are too much, please don't worry about replying and thank you so much for taking the time to help me out. Have a great day.
 

Maggie Maxwell

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Wait, so, there are typos that you need to "correct" and you said "she added a hilarious part that cracked me up." Did your editor actually make the changes that she wanted to see in the story instead of suggesting and letting you make them?
 

Undercover

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I go with Chris here. It's good to be open and honest, especially if it's really bothering you. If you stay quiet about it, and get it published that way, you won't be as happy with it in the long run. And if there are typos, please point that out to the editor. I'm sure your editor will also want it as clean as possible. Remember, she's in your corner. I'd think she'd be grateful that you spotted them.
 

bluebug

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Thank you so much for taking the time to reply. It never occurred to me to think of it like that -- that she's in my corner. I was so terrified of offending her I never thought of it like that. Thank you very, very much for helping me out. Have a great day.
 

Old Hack

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I know she reassured me to feel free to make any suggestions, but I think it's one of those polite things you always end an email with.

No--the good editors really do want you to do all you can to make your story better, and all suggestions are helpful.

Wait, so, there are typos that you need to "correct" and you said "she added a hilarious part that cracked me up." Did your editor actually make the changes that she wanted to see in the story instead of suggesting and letting you make them?

This worries me, too.

Editors do NOT make changes to the works they edit. They suggest changes, and then the author gets to implement those changes--or not.

If she's rewriting your story for you, there is a problem.
 

Anna Iguana

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Wait, so, there are typos that you need to "correct" and you said "she added a hilarious part that cracked me up." Did your editor actually make the changes that she wanted to see in the story instead of suggesting and letting you make them?

I've had this experience. Some journal editors make changes and send their revisions to authors with an offer to publish as revised.

I don't think anybody can tell you what to do, OP. There's always a chance an editor will decline to publish, or will decide an author is too much trouble to work with. On the other hand, sometimes an author can graciously decline to make some changes, or ask for a contract change, and still get published. I've had those experiences too.

It's also worth remembering that there are other publishers. Sometimes one publisher will ask for (or make) revisions as a condition for publication, but an author can politely decline, submit the work somewhere else, and get it published as-is.

Congrats on your offer of publication, and good luck!
 

Barbara R.

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Thank you so much for helping me out.

Yes, I'm worried about it coming to that. I avoid confrontations like the plague in real life and have a huge problem being assertive, so I'm relieved I can now decide to just go with what she's decided given the very real concern that she might refuse to publish the story.

I know she reassured me to feel free to make any suggestions, but I think it's one of those polite things you always end an email with. It's an unspoken agreed-upon truth that I should stick with her view.

Again, thanks so much for replying so fast. Have a great day.

They WANT to publish your story! So they're not about to rescind their offer just for doing what the editor assured you you're welcome to do, which is question edits. It's not just " one of those polite things you always end an email with." The fact is, it's your story, and the editor's suggestions are just that, suggestions. Some will be good---and kudos to you for recognizing the good ones---and some will not. In any edit, you take what brings you closer to the story you envisioned, and you reject the others.

Politely, of course, and with thanks for the really smart fixes she suggested. That should be no problem--you're clearly not the "my way or the highway" type of writer. But you are your story's spokesperson, and it's up to you to speak up for it if you think an edit does harm instead of good. I've edited a lot of books in my career (and I've been on the other side as well, being edited.) The writers I respected most all tended to have the same attitude toward edits: grateful for a fresh set of eyes and good ideas, but protective of the inner core of their stories.

It may not be worth walking away to get your original first line restored. But who knows? Maybe by discussing it, you'll understand her objections to the original and between you, you'll come up with the perfect line.

Congrats on selling your story!
 

lizmonster

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Politely, of course, and with thanks for the really smart fixes she suggested. That should be no problem--you're clearly not the "my way or the highway" type of writer. But you are your story's spokesperson, and it's up to you to speak up for it if you think an edit does harm instead of good.

This.

The editor is counting on you to speak up for your story. (Professionalism, I have to say, should be a given, as it is in any job; but artists being artists, we sometimes take criticism way too personally, so I agree it's always worth the reminder.) If you don't ask questions about clarity, push back on things you disagree with, make sure you understand all of the comments - you're actually not doing your job.

They didn't do you a favor by buying your work. They acquired something they believed would make them money (either directly or indirectly). You shouldn't have to feel like anything other than absolute adulation and capitulation is risky.
 

amergina

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The magic word is STET, which is latin for "let it stand." It's an editing mark that means "no, don't change this."

As others have said, it's your story. Editors can offer suggestions, but they shouldn't be writing for you. It's fine to ask questions or to say no. Editing is a conversation, but in the end it's your story and YOU need to be happy with it, because your name it on it.
 

bluebug

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Thank you very much for taking the time to reply again. I'm glad it won't come across as rude. Have a great day.
 

bluebug

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Oh, thank you so much for taking the time to leave me such a considerate, helpful reply! You have no idea how much reading your words helped -- yes, yes, you're right, they want to publish it. It's this unshakeable fear that if they have a chance to second-guess their decision they'll decide it was a mistake to accept my story in the first place. Your incredibly thoughtful reply helped me immensely. Yes, I am so intensely grateful and impressed by her fixes -- like I said I cracked up laughing at one of them. Oh, I feel so relieved and I honestly wish I could thank you enough! Have a wonderful, wonderful day, and from the bottom of my heart thank you!
 

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Thank you for taking the time and for your reassuring words. STET took me back to my copyediting days. Happy memories. Have a great day.
 

bluebug

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Thanks very much for taking the time to leave me such a helpful, thoughtful comment. Your words and Barbara's have helped and reassured me more than I could possibly express. Thank you so much. Have a wonderful day.
 

bluebug

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Thank you very much for taking the time to help me out and for your insightful and reassuring words. Have a great day.
 

novicewriter

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....Trying not to look a gift horse in the mouth, and trying to remember that in the end it's not a novel or anything, just a short story barely over 1k...

I was a little surprised to hear that an editor changed your short work that much, because editors who accepted my short work kept it as-is, but, since Anna Iguana has experienced editors changing their work, I guess it's okay.
 
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Anna Iguana

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I was a little surprised to hear that an editor changed your short work that much, because editors who accepted my short work kept it as-is, but, since Anna Iguana has experienced editors changing their work, I guess it's okay.

Oh :) please don't take any one writer's word for anything, including mine. I have sold flash fiction in the last year, though, as well as reading submissions for a few journals. My impression is there's a great range in what editors bring to their publications, probably more in recent times than pre-internet and pre-Amazon. Now, a paying literary journal can be created with a free website, free email address, and a bit of seed money. Probably with lower barriers to publishing, some norms from trade publishing are weakening.
 

novicewriter

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Oh :) please don't take any one writer's word for anything, including mine. I have sold flash fiction in the last year, though, as well as reading submissions for a few journals. My impression is there's a great range in what editors bring to their publications...

:) Of course. I meant that, to bluebug, I didn't want to only mention my limited experience of having my short work published without editors feeling the need to edit it, thereby, perhaps confusing the OP and giving them incorrect information or the wrong impression that because their editor wanted to change their work, that it was a signal of an unprofessional or shady editor. (I knew editors changed author's novels, but not short stories, poems, etc.)

So, that why I thought it was important to mention that you said editors edited your short work in the past.

@bluebug

I have come across traditionally published memoirs and novels with spelling and grammar mistakes, so, I guess some editors don't catch mistakes like that. Like others have mentioned, it's your own work, so you're allowed to mention mistakes that you see in your own work or edits that you don't want. Before publishing your work, they'll ask you to proofread it and whether or not there are any changes that need to be made.
 
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Old Hack

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:) Of course. I meant that, to bluebug, I didn't want to only mention my limited experience of having my short work published without editors feeling the need to edit it, thereby, perhaps confusing the OP and giving them incorrect information or the wrong impression that because their editor wanted to change their work, that it was a signal of an unprofessional or shady editor. (I knew editors changed author's novels, but not short stories, poems, etc.)

Editors shouldn't change anything--not novels, not short stories, not poems. They suggest changes, then the author either implements or rejects those changes.

If an editor makes changes to your works, they're overstepping the line. It's not good.

I have come across traditionally published memoirs and novels with spelling and grammar mistakes, so, I guess some editors don't catch mistakes like that. Like others have mentioned, it's your own work, so you're allowed to mention mistakes that you see in your own work or edits that you don't want. Before publishing your work, they'll ask you to proofread it and whether or not there are any changes that need to be made.

It's "trade published", not "traditionally published".

Editors do a lot more than correct spelling and grammar. There used to be several editorial passes, and three different editors for every book: an editor who dealt with the big things (plot, characterisation, etc.), a copy editor who dealt with fact-checking, grammar, spelling, etc., then finally a proofreader who checked the proofs for errors. And yes, the author was involved at every stage. Now it's common for the same person to take care of the big edit and the copy edit, and sometimes the proofing too: fewer eyes means more mistakes, I'm afraid.

When you're editing a book, some mistakes slip through. That doesn't mean that editors aren't good at what they do, or that they ignore some things: it just means that they're human.
 

The Otter

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The editing process is meant to be a collaborative one, a back-and-forth thing. The editor makes suggestions. You can revise according to those suggestions or not; use your own judgment. It's also not a dichotomy between accepting or rejecting changes; you can say, "I think you bring up a valid point, but what if I rewrote it in this way instead of that way?" It probably depends on the editor and their level of involvement as well. Some will restrict themselves to pointing out grammar or spelling mistakes, others will suggest major changes to plot and characterization.

Having a savvy editor can be really helpful. But, ultimately, it's your story. If they've already made an offer to publish the story, I don't think they'll rescind it because you push back against certain changes...or at least, I've never heard of that happening. Sometimes an editor will make an offer that's conditional on the author agreeing to make certain changes, but if that's the case they should tell you up front, before you officially enter into a contract with them.

As others have said, it's also unusual for an editor to make changes directly to a story, so I'm not sure what to think about that.
 

bluebug

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One last question, but first thank you so much to everyone who took the time to help me out. I brought up all my points and she accepted some of my requests but not all of them. I felt perhaps she has a better view with her years of experience and said okay. Then she ran the work by assistant editors who made more changes and brought up things she never mentioned at the beginning, and this is possibly my biggest problem: Since the very first email I received telling me she was interested in my story if I was willing to make a couple of changes, it has been nothing but requests for more and more changes plus more changes made by her. I understand it's a back-and-forth process, but why didn't she point out everything she didn't like at the beginning? This time I was a little more assertive about what I didn't want changed but she refused most of my points. My question is this: After weeks and weeks of back-and-forth emails and revisions (mostly by her; recently by her assistants), now what? She has put a lot of effort and time into editing my story, and withdrawing it now feels... just unspeakably rude! I Googled withdrawing etiquette and found countless articles written by editors warning against withdrawing and stressing that editors have long memories and I'm honestly at a loss. I now feel my story (well, what's left of it) is not a right fit at all for this particular venue, but on the other hand like I said how can you possibly say -- after weeks of editing -- no thank you I changed my mind? What do the editors here feel is acceptable, if they were in her shoes?

I'm tempted to just ask her, what do we do now? I need these things changed back and you'd rather not. But I don't want to end my chances with other editors -- I don't know if editors are like doctors who might label a troublesome patient as a nuisance and warn fellow doctors. I don't know.

Again, my heartfelt thanks to everyone who took the time to help. Have a great day.
 

Maryn

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I'll leave it for those with far more professional-level experience than I have to give you their replies, but I am appalled at their lack of professionalism. I understand your not wanting to be a "problem author" or to waste their time--and possibly give yourself a black eye in the process--by withdrawing your manuscript at this point, but IMO, they may have, pardon my language, fucked up big time.

Typically a manuscript has three rounds of edits. One's for content ("Can you make George a little nicer?" "Shouldn't Alice call for help? Maybe create a reason she can't.") The next one's for writing mechanics like grammar and usage, typos, the writing itself. The final one's proofreading. It sounds to me like the editor you're working with was doing content, and you and she worked through the changes she wanted. Now some other editors have it. If they're seeking more content changes, that feels weird and disorganized at their end, doubly so because you report that the story is now "what's left of it."

You are the person with the power here, even if it's scary to assert it. If you don't like the changes they propose, you get to say no without having to justify it (although of course you can: "If George becomes a caring person, then the final scene no longer works." "This is set in the 1980s, remember. Alice wouldn't have a cell phone.")

The editor does not get to refuse your points and insist on changes. When and if publication happens, that's your name on it, so you control the story. If they're not happy with your refusal to make certain changes, all they can do is say something along the lines of "Without these changes I recommend, I'm no longer interested in publishing this story," but they cannot force you to edit it into something that is not acceptable to you.

I remember, too, that this editor had introduced typos to your work (another thread), which suggests they are creating content to be published under your name. They don't have the right to change your text or insert words you didn't write. Between that and what you've said here, I'm concerned that they're not professional and you may end up regretting dealing with them at all. Please tell me you did your due diligence and checked them out thoroughly before submitting.

Maryn, worried on your behalf
 
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