Are you an over-writer?

I am one of the world's worst over-writers. One of the reasons I posted my Urban Fantasy on the "First 200 words" thread on the SYW - Fantasy forum was to see how much excess other users picked me up on. Two very kind reviews gave me some tips there.

That said - I just tried a 500 word flash fic - came in at >640 words and not finished yet. I made myself re-read and re-read and re-read and try out different ways of wording things and asking myself "is this word essential?" and to my own surprise I got rid of 200 words!

If by overwrite, you mean too wordy, then no. But if you mean a tendency toward frou-frou writing (ornamental), then yes. Oh, yes.

Good point - there is a difference. Unfortunately for me, it would appear I do both.........

Criccieth said:

Good point - there is a difference. Unfortunately for me, it would appear I do both.........

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My first drafts are always huge. I tend to whack 25-35% on the first revision, but after that it begins to grow again.

I indulge my ornamental writing muse in the first draft, and clip the overwrought stuff later . But given how long I tend to write, that doesn't strip the word count much.

Speaking as someone who's not an overwriter, cutting is so much easier than fleshing out. So easy. Really.

Look for unnecessary words like "that", "so", "just", "stand up", "shrug your shoulders". Look for places where you repeat the same idea twice (see what I did there?). Cut filter words like "looked", "thought", "saw".

I'm an under-writer (dodges thrown tomatoes) and it seems to me that over-writing is a more common affliction, just based on people's comments. The difference is (IMO, of course) that under-writing is something you really have to struggle to get over, whereas over-writing is something you can correct in editing, so there's not so much "pressure" to get over it. Although I understand that killing your darlings is traumatic.

Yes. I always need to trim.

caw

Having said that, I'm currently rewriting my first book (Outland) and for the first time ever, I'm going to have more words than I need. So under-writing is something you can overcome.

(Does this qualify as a hijack?)

Dennis E. Taylor said:

I'm an under-writer (dodges thrown tomatoes) and it seems to me that over-writing is a more common affliction, just based on people's comments. The difference is (IMO, of course) that under-writing is something you really have to struggle to get over, whereas over-writing is something you can correct in editing, so there's not so much "pressure" to get over it. Although I understand that killing your darlings is traumatic.

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I kind of feel like school, at least in the United States, teaches people to be overwriters by imposing page counts on writing assignments. I'm an underwriter by nature and remember many a day trying to get to some arbitrary count for a school assignment. I'd play with margins, fonts, anything to avoid having to type more unnecessary words. But in the end, I'd usually have to succumb and find a way to say more words that in my opinion didn't do enough to further my point.

Best thing you can do if you're having problems with overwriting is to get a copy of Write Tight​ and make it your new Bible. It helped me unlearn the bad habits I picked up writing school assignments.

I very often actually come up short with my first draft. BUT---I overwrite a thought/idea to death sometimes. I'll find that I have this crisp short sentence that perfectly captures what I was trying to say. And I follow it with an embarrassing explanatory sentence to describe what I meant. In edits, these second sentences get destroyed. But this is a type of over-writing that infuriates me. I notice it right away in the reading/editing stage, but not when I'm dropping that sentence into the flow of my narrative.

I think most writers are when writing the first draft. As long as you cut out all the unneeded words, you should be fine.

OneWhoWrites said:

Best thing you can do if you're having problems with overwriting is to get a copy of Write Tight​ and make it your new Bible.

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That might be the second-best thing you can do, but the first-best thing you can do is learn to edit. The more you edit, the better you'll get at it, and that exercise will call to your attention things you might be overwriting, and help you reduce those in the first place.

caw

When I write I let my muse flow, allow it to do whatever the hell it wants, gems and mud alike. When I edit...that's when the teeth show

Another issue developing from writing is speech tags. I have several kids and the older ones (the youngest is still at the ten-line-story stage) have all come home with sheets that actively TELL them to use any word other than "said". These are English-writing worksheets (what those of you over the Big Pond would call composition worksheets I guess) that say "use shrieked, or wept, or shouted, or snarled - but don;t use said!"



I kind of see what they're doing: they are trying to get the kids to form the idea that people DO do more than just recite words flat out. Presumably it's intended to be a first-step on the road to emotive writing. But then you move from school-level writing to anything else and of course it's "never use any speech tag other than said"!



That said, I don't think a "minimum word count" has ever caused me any problems - but yes, I can see that in a person who has a naturally terse style, it would instil bad habits.

I used to be, but at some point during my writing development, I started cutting down on words. When I go back and look at my old writing, there is a lot of pages and scenes that go on forever because I was describing unnecessary moments and adding too much internal dialogue--that sort of thing. Now, I'm probably a bit of an under writer, but I think I like it better that way.

I think being a plotter/outliner vs. a pantser plays into this effect. I am more on the plotter side of the spectrum, so if I overwrite, it is an insignificant amount (wordy variant). I know how many words, and pages, I have to get to the next scene of each chapter.

thehansell said:

Are you an over-writer?

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*looks at 93-chapter, 500,000k+ word Captain America fanfic, currently a third of the way through its planned story arc*

No. Most assuredly not.

I've been a rewriter these days. Interestingly enough, the whole rewrites coincide with my shifting from pantsing to plotting.

I am infinitely more content with the quality of work I produce fully plotting, and I wonder if the need for rewrites occur in part because the plot is visible as a whole to my brain... and my subconscious is not just working through how to get to the end, but working through the best possible way to get to the end.

I torched 400 pages. I'm about 125 pages into those rewrites... and I just realized something again today that would make everything SO MUCH MORE EPIC. This time around I don't have to burn my efforts to the ground, but I still need a watermelon-sized eraser. :\

The worst overwriting I ever did was an early novel where I cut about 40k on the first pass (180k down to 140k). The process taught me a lot about efficiency, the hard way. I aim for the bullseye of getting to the point. I'm never completely there on the first run through, but I've been hitting closer over time with more practice.

At the moment my WIP is on course for a word count in excess of 200k, so yeah.

I am trying not to worry about that and instead concentrate on finishing it. I have a number of dangling threads that don't go anywhere, so there is plenty of scope to tame the damn thing into something sensible -- I hope.

*eyes trunked 280k fantasy novel that needs...pruning*
*eyes originally 146k urban fantasy that now clocks in at 108k*
*shoves draft pirate WIP that is already over 100k and rising under bed*

Nope. Never. Don't know what you're talking about.

I'm an underwriter. For my sci-fi I barely reached 80k. I've tried to add to it so now it's like 86k. You shouldn't worry too much about trimming. Don't double up descriptions, like: "dingy, shoddy building" - can use either one.

Um... I actually had some trouble with a recent short I wrote where I put in information that didn't serve a purpose other than sounding cool, which it did. So, you can check out some of those. If we don't need to know the wolf can run 45 miles per hour, then cut it. Unless, of course, the MC is being chased by the wolf and comparing it to their own 43mph.

Another underwriter.

For one of my early drafts, I once went in intending to add three chapters and did, but still lost 6k words. At one point that book (adult lit fa) was down to 88k >.> I fattened it up to 106k in the end.

The Urban Spaceman said:

*looks at 93-chapter, 500,000k+ word Captain America fanfic, currently a third of the way through its planned story arc*

No. Most assuredly not.

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