If a movie makes $242 million on opening week and nobody talks about it does it make a sound?

RichardGarfinkle

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Oh man, imagine if he'd wormed his way into a security position at the event where T'Chaka was killed. To be deep in fury and thought, so close to revenge for his father, and then it's ripped away from him at the same moment T'Challa's father is ripped from him, just as violently and suddenly as he lost his own...

That's even better.
 

Cyia

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Oh man, imagine if he'd wormed his way into a security position at the event where T'Chaka was killed. To be deep in fury and thought, so close to revenge for his father, and then it's ripped away from him at the same moment T'Challa's father is ripped from him, just as violently and suddenly as he lost his own...

That would have been an epic pay-off. Killmonger volunteers to go with T'Challa to take down Barnes, gets him to trust him, just to twist the knife later. Throw in a heart-to-heart bonding moment between the two men, reminiscing about their fathers. Maybe a few questions about T'Challa's home country.
 

RichardGarfinkle

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<Digression>
Ta-Nehisi Coates who wrote the Black Panther comics for the last two years (and who has a credit in the movie for inspiring the storyline and the director) is going to be writing Captain America.

Here's his blog entry about it
https://www.theatlantic.com/author/ta-nehisi-coates/
</Digression>
 

nighttimer

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I thought it was great. Complex character conflicts and backgrounds. Some of the only action sequences I've enjoyed in some time. And it's great that now Marvel and DC have both disproven old Hollywood cliches about needing to have white male leads.

One of my favorite bits was that M'Baku was given a wider more complex role and more nuance than the painful stereotype he's often portrayed as.

The only overly predictable parts lay in the T'Challa's two duels.

Yeah, and I found the final throwdown between T'challa and Killmonger a pretty messy CGI bore. It was the one part where I couldn't wait for it to end. As far as M'baku goes...yeah, a Black character who calls himself "the Man-Ape" was problematic at the time he showed up in the comic books. This is what happens when White writers get it as wrong as Lee & Kirby got the Panther right. I don't imagine Ryan Coogler and the screenwriters sweated changing up M'baku.

The movie has also produced some of the most thought provoking reviews I've seen in ages.

True that, and one goes deep into the issue of Wonder Woman, Thor:Ragnarok and now Black Panther killing off (possible) lesbian love interests.

There’s a scene toward the end of Ryan Coogler’s record-smashing hit Black Panther in which Killmonger (Michael B. Jordan) cuts a woman’s throat. The woman is a member of the Dora Milaje, an all-female special forces unit tasked with protecting the African utopia of Wakanda and its royal family. In a moment that’s blink-and-you’ll-miss-it quick, Killmonger uses the woman’s body as a shield, while the other Dora Milaje surround them. The woman only has time to say “Wakanda forever” before he kills her and her body hits the ground.


It’s rare to see Okoye (Danai Gurira) — the general of the Dora Milaje and Wakanda’s fiercest warrior — falter in battle, but for just a second, her face crumples in anguish. Then her despair quickly transforms into rage, and she lunges at Killmonger with renewed ferociousness, brandishing her spear.


Though Okoye is romantically involved with W'Kabi (Daniel Kaluuya), and the strength of their relationship saves Wakanda from a bloody civil war, there’s still something about the way Okoye mourns the death of the woman that suggests she might have meant more to her than just a fellow fighter or friend.


Or maybe I’m just reading way too much into this scene just because it reminded me so strongly of other moments from two other major superhero blockbusters over the past year. In Taika Waititi’s Thor: Ragnarok from last fall, a flashback of a battle between Tessa Thompson’s Valkyrie and the movie’s villain Hela (Cate Blanchett) ends with Valkyrie reaching desperately for one of her fellow female Asgardian warriors, who’s just been killed; there’s a look of agony on Valkyrie’s face. And in last summer’s Wonder Woman, directed by Patty Jenkins, when Robin Wright’s Antiope dies early in the movie’s first act — killed by a bullet shot by German soldiers who’ve invaded the mythical all-women island of Themyscira — her right-hand woman, Menalippe (Lisa Loven Kongsli) screams and runs to her side, crying into the sand.


All three movies have been not only celebrated contributions to the renaissance of the superhero film, but also praised for featuring more women and people of color both in front of and behind the cameras than many of their predecessors. They also all invoke the mythology of exclusively women warrior tribes — tribes that, according to the comics from which the movies were adapted, featured a number of queer characters. But you probably wouldn’t know that based on the movies alone — not unless you know where to look. Strong warriors mourning the deaths of their fellow female soldiers, who sure seem like they might have been more than friends, is the kind of subtle queer coding that LGBT viewers have come to expect (a lot of the lesbian and bisexual characters in film and TV these days wind up dead).


Getting queer characters into a movie isn’t as simple a matter as casting. As the critic Mark Harris wrote for Film Comment in an essay about stalled LGBT representation in today’s American cinema, a character isn’t queer unless “a writer figures out a way to make it known.” Mourning a lover can be one of those ways, subtle enough not to rankle the international markets, but significant enough that queer viewers might take the bait. The ever-popular dead-lover trope, whether intentional or not, is one of the laziest sorts of queerbaiting, and beyond its obvious offensiveness — why are so many lesbian or bisexual characters still relatively anonymous, killed, or both in 2018? — at this point it’s mostly just plain boring. Even the more pleasant little maybe-queer moments we’re starting to see in some blockbusters lately (a touch or a glance, a flirty line) amount to pretty lame attempts at LGBT inclusion, which Hollywood is getting outsize credit for. When will we stop seeing the same tired tropes recycled over and over again?

DC took a shot and found out to their delight women will buy tickets to see a female hero. Marvel struck gold with an movie featuring an Afro-Futurist themed story with African characters. Now's who's going to give some love to Latino, Asian and LGBTQ audiences? Or why not a proud Muslim or Christian super hero?

More diversity not less.
 

autumnleaf

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Okoye and Valkyrie would make a great couple.

Does Daredevil count as a "proud Christian superhero"? His Catholicism is a big part of his character.
 

Putputt

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I FINALLY GOT TO SEE BLACK PANTHER. I want to scream it at the world. IT IS SO GOOD. Aaaaaahhhhhhhhhh T_T

The outfits! The music! The colors! The languages! The landscape! Afuckingmazing. And the female characters! I'd tried to stay away from spoilers, but I'd caught a couple of Tweets here and there about how great the female characters were, and THEY WERE SO GOOD. It's not just one or two excellent women on screen, but pretty much every female character was complex, and brilliant, and strong, and aaaahhhhhhh!

More. Want more. T_T I am so dead from all this amazingness.
 

cmhbob

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I thought I imagined that scene with the Dora Milaje dying, although I thought it was Okoye herself. I didn't get the hint about their relationship. But I went in not knowing much about Black Panther at all (pretty much the way I've gone into all Marvel movies though).
 

Cyia

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The difference in perception with Okoye may be that she and W'Kabi had an established relationship, so the assumption of monogamy wins out in most viewers. (I didn't notice subtext in that scene, either). With Valkyrie and Antiope it was clearer, given the anguish of Anitope's 2nd and Valkyrie's attempt to reach her unnamed sister-in-arms, but there was also no other love interest established for either of them to muddy those moments.
 

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I saw it the other weekend and I thought that it was a pretty darn good movie. I wasn't quite over the moon about it but it was a really good origin story.
I was glad that they stepped back from forcing multiple superheroes in every single film, keeping it separate made sense for the story and didn't make it feel overdone.
The only thing that I missed a little bit was that the humor wasn't quite the same for me. There were some jokes thrown in, but it didn't feel quite as seasoned as some of Marvel's other superhero flicks.

Loved loved loved Andy Serkis character - every time he came on screen I had a big smile on my face. Super funny character.
 

RichardGarfinkle

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The difference in perception with Okoye may be that she and W'Kabi had an established relationship, so the assumption of monogamy wins out in most viewers. (I didn't notice subtext in that scene, either). With Valkyrie and Antiope it was clearer, given the anguish of Anitope's 2nd and Valkyrie's attempt to reach her unnamed sister-in-arms, but there was also no other love interest established for either of them to muddy those moments.

Valkyrie's unnamed sister in arms looks like canon Valkyrie (Brunhilde) seen from the back. I think that's a shout out as well as a not developed relationship.
 

nighttimer

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Which is great and in many ways positively historical...

Black Panther zoomed past the billion-dollar mark at box offices worldwide this weekend while earning the No. 1 box-office spot for the fourth week in a row as Ava DuVernay’s A Wrinkle in Time finished in second place, marking the first time that films by black directors have held the top two spots at the U.S. box office.


According to Box Office Mojo, Black Panther earned $41 million this weekend, making it the first movie with a predominately black cast to make $1 billion worldwide, all while setting a number of other records:



  • Its domestic total of $562 million makes it the third-biggest 24-day total of all time behind The Force Awakens and The Last Jedi.
  • Ryan Coogler becomes only the second black director to direct a $1 billion-dollar-grossing movie, joining F. Gary Gray, who directed The Fate of the Furious.
  • Black Panther is the second-highest-grossing comic book superhero movie in North American film history (The Avengers is No. 1 with $623 million ... but seemingly not for much longer.)
  • Black Panther is now the seventh-biggest unadjusted domestic-grossing movie of all time.

There's no questioning the Black Panther is a massive success. However, it is "a torture for the eyes" for some moviegoers who say there's TOO much Black in Black Panther.

Marvel’s first black superhero film Black Panther made a strong debut in China, taking in more than $63 million this weekend and helping it cross the billion-dollar mark globally. And while the film filled seats in China, it didn’t exactly bring in rave reviews from Chinese audiences—in fact, online reviews hint at subtle racism and discomfort with the all-black cast.


Set in Wakanda, a fictional country in East Africa that’s hidden from the outside world, the movie portrayed a romanticized version of Africa that had never been touched by the white man. Led by a cast of black actors and actresses, the film presented how the king of the country, T’Challa, used his intelligence, ancestral knowledge, and access to advance technologies to become the superhero Black Panther.

But the movie—which comes as a timely portrayal and celebration of blackness half a century after Martin Luther King Jr.’s assassination—is hardly resonating with Chinese audiences. On Douban, China’s IMDb-esque platform, the film holds a 6.8 rating out of 10 (link in Chinese)—almost half of science-fiction and action movies rated by Douban users have a better score. Outside of China, Black Panther is on track to become the highest-rated superhero movie, according to Rotten Tomatoes; 97% of reviews from critics have been positive.


Some moviegoers disliked Black Panther because they felt Marvel was trying too hard to be politically correct (link in Chinese). While many reviewers on Douban stopped short of leaving overtly racist comments about the film, many discussed their discomfort of being surrounded by so much blackness.


“Maybe the Chinese are still not used to a film full of black people,” wrote one reviewer on Douban (link in Chinese). The commenter said he had to pinch himself more than 10 times to stay awake during the movie because “Black Panther is black, all the major characters are black, a lot of scenes are black, the car-chasing scene is black—the blackness has really made me drowsy.”


Another reviewer who came into the theater late made a similar observation: “When I entered the theater, a bunch of black people was fighting in the night… I’ve never been in a theater so dark that I couldn’t find my seat.”


Someone else said the experience was worse in 3D (link in Chinese): “The film is filled with black actors and actresses. Also, because the film’s colors are a bit dark, it’s nearly a torture for the eyes to watch the film’s 3D version in the theater.”

I've never wanted to visit China and now I never want to even more. :rolleyes
 

Putputt

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Which is great and in many ways positively historical...



There's no questioning the Black Panther is a massive success. However, it is "a torture for the eyes" for some moviegoers who say there's TOO much Black in Black Panther.



I've never wanted to visit China and now I never want to even more. :rolleyes

I’m of Chinese descent but sometimes I’m ashamed to admit it. This is one of those times. I have...very Strong Feels about this that would probably get me banned if I were to voice them here. Suffice to say, I’m so fucking disgusted and ashamed.

ETA: On a much more positive note, I saw this some time ago and just...aahh! One of the most brilliant writers ever, Nnedi Okorafor, did a short video with Buzzfeed’s Tasty on what kind of food might be served in Wakanda. It looks amazing.
 
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nighttimer

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Yeah, so this happened...



Two months ago, if you had suggested that Black Panther would become one of the highest-grossing films of all time in the United States, even the most hopeful box office analysts would’ve laughed you out of the theater. And yet, by the end of this weekend (and likely by the end of today), the Ryan Coogler-directed film will surpass the $1.2148 billion global gross of Iron Man 3 to become the biggest solo superhero flick of all time internationally (and third overall behind the first two Avengers movies), and it will edge out The Avengers’ $623 million domestic total to become the biggest stateside superhero film of all time, bar none.

It goes without saying at this point, but I’ll say it anyway: There is no precedent for a success like Black Panther. It’s defied the loftiest box office expectations from day one, shown incredible legs (it’s the first movie to top the box office for five consecutive weekends since 2009’s Avatar), and garnered almost unanimously rave reviews. And, like previous record-holders before it, Black Panther sets a new standard for what the superhero genre can achieve — not just commercially, but artistically.

It’s fitting that Black Panther has now clawed past The Avengers to become the biggest domestic superhero movie of all time. For one, King T’Challa will appear in next month’s Avengers: Infinity War, which means his superhero box office supremacy could be short-lived. But Black Panther also marks a major evolution in the genre. It incorporates the fantastical comic book elements and snarky humor of Spider-Man and the emotionally supercharged high stakes of The Dark Knight while also preparing to enter into the greater MCU that The Avengers introduced to viewers. But it’s also a socially conscious film that celebrates black excellence, gives its women great power and brilliance, and riffs on contemporary social issues, thus blurring the line between fantasy and reality. Black Panther takes place primarily in the fictional African nation of Wakanda, but there’s nothing “imaginary” about King T’Challa and Erik Killmonger’s conflicting opinions about how to best aid black communities around the world. The struggles presented in Black Panther reflect real-world problems, and the film’s overwhelming critical and commercial success will hopefully usher in an era of socially conscious superhero cinema.

For years, cinephiles and comic book enthusiasts have understood the potential of the superhero genre. With a new blockbuster seemingly coming out every few months, it’s easy to forget that the genre as we know it today is still relatively young. But in the 21st century alone, superhero movies have made great strides as both box office smashes and critical darlings, with a handful of films rewriting the rulebook every few years. Black Panther may signal an era of greater onscreen representation for women and people of color within the superhero genre, as studio executives reluctantly come to realize that diversity does sell when a movie is good. And while it’s certainly worth celebrating Black Panther’s new title as the highest-grossing superhero movie of all time, perhaps the most exciting thing is that this franchise — and the superhero genre at large — still has plenty of room to grow.





It's hella' cool that Forbes recognizes the unstoppable might of T'Challa and the people of Wakanda in all their glory, but what I give in one hand I take back in the other because Forbes also employs a hack named Scott Mendelson who wrote a shit-for-brains essay on why it's so awful terrible not so good for Hollywood that BP killed it at the box office until Pacific Rim: Uprising bumped it out of the No#1 spot.
 

nighttimer

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Nearly five months into 2018 and one thing is clear: it's the Black Panther's world and we're just living in it.

Ahead of the release of Marvel's "Avengers: Infinity War," the studio's first blockbuster of the year, "Black Panther," continues to rake in money at the domestic box office.

Currently leading the year's ranking of the top five highest-grossing films in the US, "Black Panther" has made over 5 times as much money as any other film released (at the domestic box office).


And as the highly anticipated "Avengers: Infinity War" looks to dethrone "Black Panther" following its release on Friday, Marvel and its parent company, Disney, are set to continue their domination of this year's box office.
 

vsrenard

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Giving the Man-Ape a Hanuman-backstory was a discordant note in a movie otherwise loved. What stood out most to me was the way the king's power came not just from his ability to fight but from his whole family/kingdom/tribe that rallied around him for the greater good. This is not your usual moody vigilante.
 

nighttimer

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There's a downside to fame and that's when you can't step out the front door without some nimrod shouting at you and making the "WAKANDA FOREVER!!!" gesture.

If you happen to see Chadwick Boseman or Michael B. Jordan walking down the street, don't call them T'challa or Killmonger or ask them to entertain you by returning your salute to a fictional country. Just say, "Wassup?" and keep on stepping.

You'll make their day, colonizer. :hi: