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Enlightened

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You write either a MG or YA book, and hope to catch an agent's attention. You *can* say that the book is a standalone with series potential. You *might* say it's got crossover potential. That's it.

I won't say anything unless prompted by Agents, Editors, or Publishers. The first book is what it is. It will be YA-/MG+ (agewise), but I will pitch it as YA. The MG elements will, if I write them correctly, will be seen as quirky. I have to be judicious with these, as I do not want to turn off YA readers. Like I noted, this is an experiment to see if I can cater to interests of both, concurrently, without adding anything to mature or juvenile to lose interest of either MG or YA readership. This is my first book. This is my experiment and my ability to sell my skill at writing.

I understand what you mean, but I think everything is not as black and white as one or the other. This is subjective, especially for readers. After all, many adults read Rowling's books, and early books were geared for MG readers.

Cheers.
 

Enlightened

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The thing is, an elf skating on a cake has nothing to do with making a book more accessible to MG readers. MG and YA books are intrinsically different things.

No argument, but it does not hurt to try to cater to each group concurrently. If it fails, it fails. It is an experiment.
 

cornflake

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Of course. Maybe this can be called an reader-age arc. However, Rowling failed to keep ties with her original intent (MG). We see, from some of the later movies, that fun things are added (for MG interest in movies). One example is I believe from Half-Blood Prince movie. During the Christmas time, a mini elf is seen ice skating on a white-frosted cake on the table. I can't say this was in the book or not, but I think Rowling did a disservice by not adding in some occasional fun things (that can add interest for MGs to read the later books with fun things.

Just my 2¢.

Wait, you can't say if it was in the book but you think she should have put it in the book?

She didn't fail to keep ties with her original intent -- her books changed category as the characters aged. That was the intent.

Children are not the only ones who like 'fun things,' and fun things are not the hallmark of MG.

Sure, adults read Rowling, and plenty of other MG and YA, and kids read adult books. The categories, however, exist for a reason.
 

Cyia

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I'm curious - you say you're going to pitch the book as YA, so it should be targeted at 13-18 year-old readers.

Do you know how you intend to frame it? I don't mean the plot or anything like that, but do you know how you intend to query your book once it's finished?

Like:

Dear [agent]:

[quick plot details to catch agents attention]

[book title] is a [word count] YA [genre] novel. NOW WHAT GOES IN THIS SPACE, HERE?

Thank you for your time.

Sincerely,

[Your Name]

Do you have any idea what you intend to put where those red letters are?
 

Enlightened

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Cyia: I will write the book before I tackle querying an agent. Again, YA is the target. I know the word count limits. I cannot respond to query letter issues at this time. Let me write the book, pass it through some readers, revise, and so forth. At that point, I can have a solidified response for you. At this moment, I cannot respond.

cornflake: I said I cannot say if the elf was in the book or not, and she could add some of these elements (not this one, specifically). I do not know if the elf was Rowling's idea, the screenwriter of the movie, or someone else. I cannot recall if this elf scene was mentioned in the book, or if the book I named was the movie where this elf appeared. This is a subjective thing. I think we have different views of an issue (regarding evolution of story/series). I think both views are valid. Fair?
 

Marissa D

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You might consider googling "what is the difference between YA and MG?" and read the articles that show up. The emotional cores of YA and MG books are very different things; trying to cater to both will probably mean not being satisfactory to either. What is wrong with committing to one or the other?
 

Enlightened

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You might consider googling "what is the difference between YA and MG?" and read the articles that show up. The emotional cores of YA and MG books are very different things; trying to cater to both will probably mean not being satisfactory to either. What is wrong with committing to one or the other?

I am focusing on one, YA. Why can't I cater to interests of both MG and YA (if I can find an appropriate way to do so)? I won't go too heavy into YA issues immediately. The first book, or two, will be light YA. Like Rowling, if this becomes a series, I will advance YA topics, gradually.

EDIT
After more thought, I think it is important, for me, to keep the series in YA from start to finish. I want to include MG (at least for books one and two). After the first couple books, if MGs want, they can proceed with YAs. Character arcs and dynamics will gradually change. For me, I'm not a fan of Rowling writing in both MG and YA for the series. I heard some librarians say nasty things of the first books and commenting of MG issues that made the books unsatisfying for them. These are little things I would prefer not show in my book(s).
 
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cornflake

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I am focusing on one, YA. Why can't I cater to interests of both MG and YA (if I can find an appropriate way to do so)? I won't go too heavy into YA issues immediately. The first book, or two, will be light YA. Like Rowling, if this becomes a series, I will advance YA topics, gradually.

EDIT
After more thought, I think it is important, for me, to keep the series in YA from start to finish. I want to include MG (at least for books one and two). After the first couple books, if MGs want, they can proceed with YAs. Character arcs and dynamics will gradually change. For me, I'm not a fan of Rowling writing in both MG and YA for the series. I heard some librarians say nasty things of the first books and commenting of MG issues that made the books unsatisfying for them. These are little things I would prefer not show in my book(s).

I don't think I understand exactly -- not that I need to really; it's your thing, but here we are in the thread.

If the first book is YA, what will change to make it YA and why would MG readers read it to begin with?
 

Enlightened

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I don't think I understand exactly -- not that I need to really; it's your thing, but here we are in the thread.

If the first book is YA, what will change to make it YA and why would MG readers read it to begin with?

Your grammar is confusing. It begins in YA and will remain in YA, as I noted. To respond to the rest of your query, I will make assumptions. I will assume I will land a YA/MG agent of my choosing; one that has a strong track record in each. I will assume I can, successfully, write for both MG and YA in the first book.

With an agent, I will discuss possibilities of marketing it to both YA and MG. At this point, everything is unknown to me. This is an experiment. I want to know if this is possible, and this serves as motivation to write a strong book.
 

Cyia

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Let me explain my meaning with the query a little differently.

In that section of the query, you give the title, word count, genre, etc. It's where you give comparable titles or authors (do not use JK Rowling). It's where you show the agent that you know where your book fits into the market, and where you would tell them if you hope to make the book a series (don't go into the number of books, just "series potential").

Most of that you should already know. My point was that locking it down in a few concise sentences can help you focus your attention on one age group over the other. I'm not really sure I understand what you mean about slipping some MG things into a YA book. There was silliness throughout the HP series - mostly with the Weasley twins and Peeves, but it was there. Silliness doens't make a book MG = that's more about the voice and word choice, or the age of the characters and how they interact with each other.

A book can have young characters and not be for a young audience. If you're writing about child trafficking, for instance, even if you're writing from the POV of a 12 year old girl or boy, that's still not a MG book. If you're writing about a 16 year old girl or boy who is a mother or father and considered an adult by their culture, then it's not a YA novel, even with characters who are young adults.

The marketing of the book is *solely* up to your publisher.
 

Enlightened

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Cyia: I agree with what you noted, and the advice. Thank you. As per MG facets in a YA, these are items I wish to keep unknown to others. No offense implied. It is hard to respond without divulging things I want to keep secret. For now, I will write the book - and your words are helpful - and choose my course of action with querying an agent when it is time. Of course it is up to the publisher, but it is critical to first tell the agent.

I will be offline for an hour to watch a TV show. Thanks everyone!
 

Debbie V

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What an interesting discussion. I think it misses a point about J.K. Rowling and her choices. We forgot that there was time between the publication of each book. She didn't leave middle grade readers behind. She wrote to the middle grade readers she started with so they wouldn't leave her books behind. They got older along with her characters.
 

GeneBWell

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I highly recommend reading a lot of MG published within the last few years, same for YA. A good, solid understanding of the markets you're attempting to merge would go a long way toward helping your ability to do so. I've seen agents and folks around here recommend reading 100 recent books in any market you want to write in, and I've only recently realized they weren't joking. When I decided I was meant for writing MG, I started reading right away. Now I have about 30 titles under my belt and I still feel like I'm only scratching the surface of understanding the MG market.

Also make sure you get beta readers who are familiar with the markets. It may be hard to get one who is an expert in both MG and YA, so I'd just look for a few YA beta readers and a few MG ones.