That is so strang but I never thought of it like that and kept wondering why I could not get the MC to fit into the story even though I understood it perfectly. Your one answer changed everything for me. I get it now and understand how to proceed. Wow, a million thanks. I am going to download that book, The Power" right now and read it. I have seen movies like this but never a book. I am sure there are many but I have mostly read thrillers so they probably never crossed my desk. I did read, "Circle" or "The Circle" and it was similar. It clearly had an MC but the story was more about the technology than the character. The character could have been swapped for any other character. She just happened to lead the book but the plot was idealistic and Brave New Worldish. What a terrible movie though. The book read much better. Again thank you this really helps. Even if I still end up stashing the book away and never do anything with it at least I understand why the character had trouble fitting. huh... The story really is about the terror attacks, not the character. Great catch. Thank you so much.
What is your opinion on multiple POVs (3rd person)
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That is so strang but I never thought of it like that and kept wondering why I could not get the MC to fit into the story even though I understood it perfectly. Your one answer changed everything for me. I get it now and understand how to proceed. Wow, a million thanks. I am going to download that book, The Power" right now and read it. I have seen movies like this but never a book. I am sure there are many but I have mostly read thrillers so they probably never crossed my desk. I did read, "Circle" or "The Circle" and it was similar. It clearly had an MC but the story was more about the technology than the character. The character could have been swapped for any other character. She just happened to lead the book but the plot was idealistic and Brave New Worldish. What a terrible movie though. The book read much better. Again thank you this really helps. Even if I still end up stashing the book away and never do anything with it at least I understand why the character had trouble fitting. huh... The story really is about the terror attacks, not the character. Great catch. Thank you so much.
No problem.
If you haven't read it I would also suggest checking out Emily St. John Mandel Station Eleven, which follows the lives of several people before and after a virus that wiped out more of the world population and civilisation as we know it.
i absolutely will check it out. Which do you recommend reading first, "The Power" or "Station Eleven" i got a really great tip from an editor to read "The Walk" by Goldberg. I forget his first name. It was a very similar book to mine. Kind of had me spooked at the similarities. Thanks
I actually just decided yesterday to change up my gameplan a little bit. The original idea was to tell most of my story from my MC's POV and switch off to the POV of his closest friend/right hand because she's a sharpshooter, so she's literally watching some of these scenes play out and I think it makes sense she would have some unique observations. I still think this is a great way to get another perspective on some key events and characters, and also show some things that the MC simply cannot see unfolding around him.
The new wrinkle is in the MC's potential love interest. He's supposed to be a very self loathing and guarded person who she whittles away at, and I started writing a scene only to realize I was in her POV and it made a lot of sense. Following along with him on most of the action -adventure main plot, but then watching this friendship slowly evolve into something else from her perspective as she starts to peel layers away seems natural to me.
But then, maybe when I'm all done and proud and eager, my story will be universally panned =)
The new wrinkle is in the MC's potential love interest. He's supposed to be a very self loathing and guarded person who she whittles away at, and I started writing a scene only to realize I was in her POV and it made a lot of sense. Following along with him on most of the action -adventure main plot, but then watching this friendship slowly evolve into something else from her perspective as she starts to peel layers away seems natural to me.
But then, maybe when I'm all done and proud and eager, my story will be universally panned =)
Blue Tortoise
I am not sure if you are looking for an idea but whatever I'll throw it out there and you can do what you like with it.
I have never written a novel but have written screenplays and a really fun way to get into a walled-off character.
You wrote, "He's supposed to be a very self-loathing and guarded person who she whittles away at."
We all have guards at least those of us who are cautious but we all have weaknesses or soft spots. Possible your self-loathing character has a past, one thing he is good at. Something that stands above the sin or whatever has created the self-loathing. One quality that lets him live life. I am sure he doesn't walk around all day damning himself so when he is not beating himself up, what is he is doing? Maybe it's cooking, poetry if even sad negative poetry, something he is great at. This will allow her to see something beautiful in him otherwise why would she find him attractive. If he cooks, she can be a lover of truffles and he prepares her a truffle dish or if it is poetry she sees his pain in the poetry but the beauty of such sad tales attracts her to him. I think the stoic male is often thought of as the attractive figure. The entire Die Hard series had that character. A self-loathing bad-ass with a front like ice, but vulnerability makes a character relatable and endearing.
Like i said just a thought.
I am not sure if you are looking for an idea but whatever I'll throw it out there and you can do what you like with it.
I have never written a novel but have written screenplays and a really fun way to get into a walled-off character.
You wrote, "He's supposed to be a very self-loathing and guarded person who she whittles away at."
We all have guards at least those of us who are cautious but we all have weaknesses or soft spots. Possible your self-loathing character has a past, one thing he is good at. Something that stands above the sin or whatever has created the self-loathing. One quality that lets him live life. I am sure he doesn't walk around all day damning himself so when he is not beating himself up, what is he is doing? Maybe it's cooking, poetry if even sad negative poetry, something he is great at. This will allow her to see something beautiful in him otherwise why would she find him attractive. If he cooks, she can be a lover of truffles and he prepares her a truffle dish or if it is poetry she sees his pain in the poetry but the beauty of such sad tales attracts her to him. I think the stoic male is often thought of as the attractive figure. The entire Die Hard series had that character. A self-loathing bad-ass with a front like ice, but vulnerability makes a character relatable and endearing.
Like i said just a thought.
Hi, Shrimpsdad,
Am I reading this right?
You've written screenplays but never written a novel?
Am I reading this right?
You've written screenplays but never written a novel?
Shrimpsdad I agree with you, and actually yes he does have a hobby he excels at when he's not otherwise engaged as a soldier for hire lol, and there is in fact a reason for all the self depreciation 
Yes I have written a few screenplays but never a novel and that is why I am having so much trouble with this novel. Screen plays are so much easier. You write it how you see it. Head hopping doesn't exist. The director gets to decide whose head we are in. It is all about plot and good dialogue so to me it's much easier. I am sure you can find some that disagree. The constant POV between scenes is all new to me.
OK- I just got confused, remembering your older posts where you mentioned having finished a manuscript and that editors said it was rubbish, and then you said 'we' were trying to restrict the POV to 5.
Most screenwriters are pretty clear in expressing things.
It certainly is a switch moving from screenwriting to writing novels. Good luck.
Most screenwriters are pretty clear in expressing things.
It certainly is a switch moving from screenwriting to writing novels. Good luck.
Bufty I am sorry if I was unclear in any way. What part came across as confusing. The fact that the editors thought it was a lousy manuscript or that I said "we" as in, an editor and I are working to fix the problems. I have some friends still in the business and ask for favors from time to time. I also hired a wonderfully kind and giving editor to help me through the POV issues. I really wouldn't say hired because the work she has done for the small fee doesn't seem adequate. Amazingly talented woman. I will keep writing but fear that the first MS is going to be shelved. Maybe I'll get it on the second time around. if there is anything I have not clarified please let me know and I'll try to express myself better. I humbly come to AW in total amazement. The kind, talented, hardworking, writers taking time out of their day to help a first time writer like myslef truly makes me smile. I can only promise to return the favor once I get myself in the spot to offer assistance. Thank you for your time.
I was mainly confused by your saying 'I have never written a novel', when it was reasonably clear from your prior posts that you have written a novel.
If, as it now appears, you have indeed written a novel- it's just that it's apparently not yet of publishable standard, despite input from your editorial and business contacts.
As it happens, I'm in the same position as you - others will be, too. But help and experience is available to us all here and you have already been welcomed to participate.
Use the Share-Your-Work facility when you reach 50 posts- that's not far off now
Just out of curiosity, were any of your screenplays successful?
If, as it now appears, you have indeed written a novel- it's just that it's apparently not yet of publishable standard, despite input from your editorial and business contacts.
As it happens, I'm in the same position as you - others will be, too. But help and experience is available to us all here and you have already been welcomed to participate.
Use the Share-Your-Work facility when you reach 50 posts- that's not far off now
Just out of curiosity, were any of your screenplays successful?
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Sold yes! Successful no! A few were sold. One was made into a feature film and had a decent cast, names you would surely recognize, but never won any awards. Well, a few film festivals awards. Silver in Houston Film Festival. It was my life for many years but I got tired of being broke so I went to work. I am now working in Rome and have some free time so I started writing. I should have been clearer. I have completed an 84K word manuscript. I guess I would not classify myself as a writer of novels. And do not think of myself as writing a novel. I have a bunch of words on paper. When does a manuscript become a novel? When it sells?
I collaborated with some really good writers. I, for what I am told, can write good dialogue. I have a good understanding of characters and how they communicate. Never a wasted word. Even if the intention is only to get a laugh it all needs a purpose. A screenplay only has a 120 pages so each word of dialogue must be spot on. I am sure you know all of this but you genuinely seemed interested so I figured I would tell.
Thank again for all of your help.
I collaborated with some really good writers. I, for what I am told, can write good dialogue. I have a good understanding of characters and how they communicate. Never a wasted word. Even if the intention is only to get a laugh it all needs a purpose. A screenplay only has a 120 pages so each word of dialogue must be spot on. I am sure you know all of this but you genuinely seemed interested so I figured I would tell.
Thank again for all of your help.
Responding to the question in the thread title:
Many of the best novels I've read feature multiple POVs in third-person. Not all of them - I can immediately think of several great series of first-person, single-POV novels - but multi-POV Sci-Fi was my bread and butter growing up, and to me, that's what separates a novel from a short story. That's obviously very simplistic, but I can't picture myself writing a novel and it having less than three POV characters. If I'm going to do that, I'll make it a novella or a short story.
Many of the best novels I've read feature multiple POVs in third-person. Not all of them - I can immediately think of several great series of first-person, single-POV novels - but multi-POV Sci-Fi was my bread and butter growing up, and to me, that's what separates a novel from a short story. That's obviously very simplistic, but I can't picture myself writing a novel and it having less than three POV characters. If I'm going to do that, I'll make it a novella or a short story.
Man in Black
Thank you for getting me back on track. Sorry about that. I am sure it is very annoying for someone actually trying to find an answer to a problem Having to read through my nonsense agh... I apologize. Won't happen again. I am new to AW. To the OP I apologize.
Thank you for getting me back on track. Sorry about that. I am sure it is very annoying for someone actually trying to find an answer to a problem Having to read through my nonsense agh... I apologize. Won't happen again. I am new to AW. To the OP I apologize.
My novel also uses a few different POVs. I tried to merge them but I felt like this was not possible based on the story dynamics. I think the POVs work, but my main fear is that they might confuse the reader. I worked with a developer who suggested a chapter break with a POV change. Does anyone else agree with this tactic? How else can you denote POV changes?
Multiple povs are very common; readers won't be confused unless you go out of your way to confuse them. Some readers don't like multi pov but there's nothing you can do about that; no point catering to everyone.
you can title each scene/chapter with the POV name, or just signal it by using their name in the first couple of sentences.
Scene breaks or chapter breaks both work for POV.
you can title each scene/chapter with the POV name, or just signal it by using their name in the first couple of sentences.
Scene breaks or chapter breaks both work for POV.
I prefer the chapter break for PoV switching, but some writers effectively use scene breaks for the same purpose. If the break between PoVs is clear, I can't imagine most readers would find either technique confusing as multi-pov is very common.
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I'm not sure if you can see this without signing in to Submittable, but if you can, scroll down to 'Lovestruck' and look at the requirements:
The default in romance is two POVs, but I did write one manuscript in just the heroine's POV. It was a good experiment, and a fun challenge, but I went back to two POVs afterwards. I like having both perspectives, both as a reader and writer. You can play with juxtaposition and role reversal in a much more effective way than single POV.
It's one line with one publisher in one genre, but it shows that multiple POVs aren't some kind of universal no-no!
The default in romance is two POVs, but I did write one manuscript in just the heroine's POV. It was a good experiment, and a fun challenge, but I went back to two POVs afterwards. I like having both perspectives, both as a reader and writer. You can play with juxtaposition and role reversal in a much more effective way than single POV.
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There is no real rule when it comes to writing. The only exception is "write your best."
I write middle grade, and most of my works are almost exclusively third person omniscient (or close third, with multiple POV). I do think they're more common in children's writing than adult's though.
OP, have you read The Westing Game? That is a classic and one of the best examples of multiple POV used. Sometimes as many as two in the same paragraph. But the author pulls it off flawlessly, so the reader is never confused.
I have seen agents on Twitter reject automatically because a certain writing style doesn't click with them, but that's the subjectivity of the industry.
I've been reading the Guns of Navarone and there are several mid scene POV switches in that book, I admit the first one threw me a little but once i realized what was going on, its been really simple to follow the shifts since. But there A) aren't a whole lot of them and B) it doesn't happy until about a quarter of the way into the book, so I was already good and sucked in lol.
Man, I remember reading a Tom Clancy thriller where he had a log (as in tree) with a POV. I am not shi%ing you.
You can do anything you like - just do it well.
You can do anything you like - just do it well.
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I've run across novels written in omniscient where the narrator dips into the mind of an animal for a moment, even if the animal isn't actually a "character" in the book. I've also read entire books written in the viewpoint of animalsl. So I suppose having a squirrel as an occasional, limited-third viewpoint could work if it's handled well and adds something to the story.
I've run across a number of books written in Omniscient recently. The Golem and the Djinni is one where I thought the approach worked fairly well. It allowed the narrator give us information about the inner workings of numerous characters without that "whiplash" feeling one would get if it were done in limited third. It also allowed for the sharing of information that no character was thinking or aware of at times. I've run across others that utilize it too.
Ash, by Malinda Lo is a very subtle use of omniscient third in a YA novel. It feels a lot like limited third for much of the story, because most of the narrative follows the protagonist around in third person, but she established early on that she can slide out and share things that are external to the main character. Another book in omniscient is the novella "Every Heart a Doorway" by Seanan McGuire.
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Yes, Helene Wecker did an excellent job with the omniscient POV. (If anyone wants to look for it, the title is The Golem and the Jinni.) I wasn't sure what to expect from it, but it turned out to be a very good read.