Trying to hash out magic system

Status
Not open for further replies.

AJMarks

Banned
Joined
Dec 17, 2007
Messages
226
Reaction score
11
Location
Texas
Edited version.

First off, everyone can use magic in this world, all nine races. No exceptions and this is not debatable. Magic has always existed as far as anyone knows and is part of everyone's daily life. Magic isn't special, or rare.

I'm going with a stamina basis of using magic. As you use it, it tires you out. As you become tired, it effects how powerful, and successful the magic is. If one is too tired and tries a powerful spell it could result in physical harm up to death.

With this stamina system, as one gets older you can become wiser in magic, but you start to lose stamina. Like an older person starts losing physical strength. I think this balances out that everyone has magic, and if everyone has magic then the oldest would be the strongest. I like the idea they might know it, but lack the stamina to actually use the magic. And a younger person would require training to use powerful spells.

A person is born with magical abilities. As a baby they might not have control of the magic and its usually harmless and random with simple basic spells. As they age they are trained to control the magic better. As teens they start learning magic specific to what the job they head into. A farmer will learn a different set of magic skills than a priest or a soldier.

In the past 100 years magic technology has improved, including things like magic engines. There are also other things, like light crystals and something new, communication crystals (though these are still highly unreliable) as the distances grow. There are universities and inventors who dabble in magic to create new spells and uses for crystals.

Depending on the spell it might require more than one person. For example, recharging a magic engine crystal could require as little as two to as many as twenty. However, everyone in the group must know the spell and how to use it.

Spells must be controlled as they are used. Its why magic crystals are so loved. Take a crystal light, a person can activate it and it lights up illuminating a room. If one used an illumination spell to light up a room it would be active only so long as the person who cast it controls it. The moment they stop controlling it, the spell would end and light would vanish.

There are some taboo areas of magic, like necromancy.

In the story no one cares if something is magical, or who uses what spell. There is no quest for some magical item either. Magic is simply another tool people use in their daily lives.
 
Last edited:

Quinn_Inuit

Not a real eskimo
Kind Benefactor
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Feb 22, 2013
Messages
938
Reaction score
110
Age
44
Location
DC area
Website
www.steve-quinn.net
That seems reasonable. What are the mechanics of multiple people working together? Also, what are some of the really cool things magic can do in this system? Well-done, magic evokes a sense of wonder. Here's an interesting article I recently read on the topic: https://fantasy-hive.co.uk/2018/02/vancian-magic-dd/

In any case, the way in which a system of magic is written is far more important than how it works. TBH, I think J.K. Rowling's system of magic is random, unbalanced, and basically broken, but her books are amazing and IMO deservedly popular.

This is a writing forum, so please excuse this digression. Your post is a nearly unreadable wall of text, a collection of sentences with no apparent structure or organization. Please consider being more courteous to your readers and organizing your thoughts more next time.
 

Enlightened

Always Learning
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Jan 5, 2018
Messages
4,863
Reaction score
167
Location
Colorado
1. Nature vs. Nurture. Magic users can't be born with their skills. They have to learn them somewhere, over time (nurture). Something to think about adding.
2. Your version of magic diminishing in the elderly conflicts with other wizard stories (Dumbledore, Gandalf, others). Readers may or may not like the difference.
3. Lack of trade-off considerations. Usually, people who build a lot of muscle, skimp on other things (learning, other). This might confuse readers.

Some of the elements, at least for me, bring up questions. I think some readers may have them as well. Confusion is never a good thing, when it comes to readers wanting to read more of your work(s).

What is your source of magic? Does it come from ancient texts? Is there an finite system, or can anyone do anything?

Rowling came up with an interesting problem in her writing. Anyone could fly with a broom. The dementors and Voldemorte needed a new way to fly (broomless). Who could do this, and who could not, was a question for her. Harry was the kid who survived Voldemorte's assassination attempt. How can someone so powerful, even as an infant, not have the ability to fly without a broom? Little things like these may pop up.
 

Azdaphel

Super Member
Registered
Joined
Feb 1, 2018
Messages
593
Reaction score
35
Location
France
Interesting post, I had similar questions for a magic system. I preferred to keep things simple and posed a set of limitations:

1) People who can become wizards must learn to use it.
2) No one can learn every type of magic.
3) Only a handful of wizards have the innate ability to mess with the laws of nature.

I imagined a restrictive system, yet I kept the possibility for some wizards to be more impressive through a special gift.

With your system (a little confuse I think), it seems that everyone as the capacity to use magic without training. If magic replace science in your world, perhaps you should start by a system of domains of magic, or specialization. If anyone could be trained in anything, it doesn't mean they should be doing everything they want. While they train their magical powers, they must chose one or two domain since no one can learn everything in a lifetime.
You can also imagine abilities bound to races, like the faeries. There can be special gifts only a handful of people possess, something both rare and powerful.
I think, your system lack structure and organisation, and it shows in your post.
 
Last edited:

AJMarks

Banned
Joined
Dec 17, 2007
Messages
226
Reaction score
11
Location
Texas
Edited the original post. Still ironing out the magic system.
 

Justobuddies

Iä! Iä! Cthulhu fhtagn!
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Dec 11, 2017
Messages
971
Reaction score
190
Location
Somewhere in time AND space
I tend to agree with the spirit of the other comments on the system. It seems a little too loose to be of any value the biggest risk to magic that everyone can do is that it becomes less special. So it's hardly magic at all, really. Which, I think, is fine if used as a world building tool and is less crucial to your plot. Also, be wary of the magic becoming a Deus ex Machina to fix all the problems at the end.

To sum it up, it sounds like magic is a second set of muscles, that take some development and training to strengthen, and eventually weaken with age. With muscles some people can exercise them more and get stronger, run faster, jump higher, etc. Of course, some people are born with diseases that make their muscles atrophy at a quickening pace so they're crippled before they have even learned to walk (think MDS). AHave you considered introducing something like this into the magic system to let it be a source of conflict? Most magic systems have trade-offs and limitations for this very reason, magic can't do something so the characters have to use it in a unique and interesting way, this produces conflict and drives the plot.

That said, most readers when they pick up a book want it to be entertaining, only a select few will want to 'get under the hood' and see how the mechanics work. Unfortunately, (or fortunately if you're like me) as authors we have to engineer a world and a magic system that makes some kind of sense, even though we only relay a portion of it to the readers. Just like building a web browser, or putting together a computer. Every piece of code, or component piece has to be in place and work, but the end-user is only going to use it to look at pictures of kittens. Know the limitations of your magic system, write within your guidelines, and give cute kittens to your readers.
 

Arcs

Super Member
Registered
Joined
Jun 22, 2011
Messages
404
Reaction score
103
Magic is secondary to a good story (though I do love a good magic system), but if your readers ask 'why didn't they just do X to solve [problem] when they did X twenty pages ago' then you might have failed to make a good story.

I'd suggest limiting your system in some way more than just stamina-demands.

You need a concrete way for your characters to not be able to dues ex machina their problems away, unless that is the type of story you're telling, in which I suggest you give your protagonists/antagonists the limitation of 'morals', or 'somethings gonna kill/destroy/mutate them if they do X', or prepare for your story to be about destroying the world.

Speaking of destroying the world! If you haven't read The Fifth Season trilogy, you should, because its a fantastic trilogy where the main characters have literal world shattering magic powers. Their main limitations are 1) when they're discovered at birth, they're usually murdered by the normal people who rightfully fear them, and 2) if they survive 1, then the trauma and servitude forced upon them by their society turns most of them into 'good little soldiers', and 3) killers who can negate their powers and are as ruthless as anything I ever read.

You could probably just have the Law in your world (upheld by outsider forces or by the people themselves) do Very Bad Things to anyone caught using magic in a few specific ways, like to harm, or control, or do X to another person. Maybe any control of another body is seen as EVIL, and thus even things like healing magic would warrant the death penalty. Maybe things like perfume or a well-tailored suit are seen as mental influence over another, and are also seen as EVIL.

It's all well and good to have 'stamina' be your magic system's defining drawback. (And you should read The Fifth Season, its a good book about the horrors that people inflict upon each other in their pursuit of safety in a world where the smallest of magic literally shifts the Earth.)


EDIT: I reread your post again, and I'm gonna add that you should adjust your magic system to the story you're trying to tell. Are you telling a coffee-shop AU kinda story? Then you probably don't need to get the constabulary involved when everyone is just heating water or growing coffee in the snow. A MG Harry Potter sort of thing? Then you should consider limitations along the line of 'preparation and education is needed to use magic effectively'. Urban Fantasy something? Epic Fantasy? Science Fantasy? Now you need to really get deep into it, and give your magic some clear rules.

But above all, it has be a good story. well written, interesting characters, interesting world, etc.
 
Last edited:

Kalsik

Kalsik
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Feb 14, 2018
Messages
51
Reaction score
2
Location
Brighton
If you want to add a story to go with your magic system, think of the ramifications of your magic system on its world.
You mentioned different, specific magics learned based on the job people go into? Well, its safe to assume that this might have an impact on society.
What if a form of caste society developed, where certain skillsets, even if everyone is viewed as near equal in potential power, are viewed as more valuable. Research into fuedal japan's system would be a good start.
Alternately, perhaps its a collection of differing states within a certain territory that place emphasis on certain magical skills that vary, depending on what their population's makeup is of who developed a more natural affinity for certain magics. Remember, just because someone is in a job doesn't guarantee they'll be good at it.
And if you want to dive into some more unpleasant implications, perhaps there's a form of secret, selective breeding or magic-based genetic modification going on with a state's populations, as a means to slowly gain an advantage over others. Perhaps your story could be a conspiracy that's been going on for decades being uncovered.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.